DocPop

Have you done much CRW? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You are so right, Bill. I can't believe I got sucked into that. It was as stupid as it was pointless. My apologies. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You bought a tree? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Personally I think JC makes the original, but all three UK presenters have some great chemistry. The three US presenters seem a bit bland. It is more like the UK show "Fifth Gear". TG-UK is about more than the cars, it's a lads comedy show too. Unfortunately I don't suppose JC's un-PC attitude will ever fly in the US version. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Baie dankie, meneer. I appreciate your advice. The other DZ I will probably end up at is Skydive Central in Bloem. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

This confuses me, Dave. The Katana has an even higher aspect ratio and is slightly more elliptical (according to the numbers on PD's website) and yet it dives considerably more than an equivalent sized/loaded Stiletto. Is is not more likely that the short recovery arc of the ST was a conscious design decision to suit the style of canopy piloting at the time when the ST was developed? I am not stating this as fact, just asking the question. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Thank you to all of you. The comments and calculators were very interesting. I understood about speed and recovery arc being greater but I had no idea that the canopy won't respond as fast to toggle input. I am guessing this catches people out. I feel better (and worse!) about my first jump there now! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I am planning a trip to South Africa and hope to spend a few days at JSC which I believe is about 5,000' MSL. I currently jump at a DZ at about 700' MSL. Is there a rule of thumb that would enable me to get some idea of how my canopy will behave given this increase in altitude (assume all other density parameters stay the same). Is this going to make my 135 feel like a 120 would at my home DZ? Or would the difference be bigger or smaller than that? I realize that these are some very vague questions. Just trying to get a feel for what to expect. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You are infantile and you bring no value to these threads. Please stop posting. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Hahahahahahahahaha! There he goes again! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

No, I am trying to show you that sometimes, you can be wrong and it's OK to admit it. It's when you don;t admit it that you end up looking like a fuckwit. I now have over 200 jumps including over 100 jumps this year AND did my first one 20 years ago AND did AFF 4 years ago AND listen to people. Care to change your opinion about who has more experience? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I had a long conversation about canopy progression with Nick Grillet from PD recently and he laid out all his demo canopies to show me the way PD look at them. Basically you start at the bottom with Student canopies (Navigator) then move up to "intermediate" canopies (Spectre, Pulse, Storm and Silhouette). From here he divided their canopies into two "paths" - swooping and non-swooping - based on how interested the person was in canopy piloting. The left path was the non-CP path and basically consisted of going to the Stiletto, which because it is a high performance wing was way out on the left. The right (CP) path started with the Sabre2 and then progressed through the Katana to the Velocity, which was way out on the right. He explained to me that the safest canopy transitions were between canopies next to each other on the diagram. So, in answer to your question, the Velo is a looong way from the Stiletto. So if a jumper wanted to move from a ST to a Velo they would recommend moving to a Sabre2, or at least a Katana before jumping a Velo to get used to canopies which stay in the dive longer. I personally only have experience of the Sabre2 150 to Katana 135 transition and while it was exciting, it was in no way scary. Your experience may differ. I should also add that I pulled high a lot & went back to double front approaches from doing 180s when I changed canopy. The Katana just feels more flyable. I can do what I wanted with it without having to force it like I felt with the Sabre2 towards the end. I guess in summary, give PD a call and talk to them about it. They are more than willing to help anyone out. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I certainly don't want to disagree with your experience, but I personally know several girls who had trouble flaring the larger student canopies and found that the toggle pressure improved when they downsized to a 200 or 190. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

once again your eyes have failed you... i never said only, just said the standard meaning its the first canopy they make their first jump on, subsequent jumps and they progress down Yeah - I didn't think you would be able to list them. I asked somewhere, which I assume you would agree is a subset of anywhere and was told, "No, a 280 is not the standard canopy for first jump students, we evaluate each student individually and first jumps may be performed on canopies ranging from 200 to 280 sq ft.". You have formed an opinion from your narrow range of experience and are extrapolating it to be true for the majority of DZs. You have done this in numerous threads and been corrected many, many times. Does it not start to get through to you that when people disagree with you consistently, you may be in the wrong? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Ok, name 10 dropzones where they have told you they only use 280s for first jump students. If it is really true that you can "ask anywhere" and get this answer you should have no trouble with this task. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

And I am telling you that your "observations" are wrong in this case. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Personally, not being an instructor, I wouldn't make any canopy recommendations for students - and I suggest you do the same. However, the appropriate size canopy for a first jump student depends on their bodyweight. If you were to put a 100lb girl on a 280 it is possible that they would not have the strength to flare it. Did you consider that? I personally have never jumped anything bigger than the 200 I started on. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Dude - you really do post some BS. What makes you think that 280 is the "appropriate" size for student canopies? You should probably keep quiet and learn until you know enough for your "advice" to be of value to someone. To the OP - the answer to your question really depends on a lot of factors including wing-loading, canopy size, canopy type and how the 180 turn is performed. As a sensible rule though, no hard turns (meaning toggles below shoulder level) under your hard deck is a good one to follow to avoid not only AAD fires but also induced line twists, canopy collisions in the pattern etc.. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I can pick my Infinity up by the main pin cover and it doesn't come undone. I find that very reassuring. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

http://www.youtube.com/user/PDBlog#p/a/u/2/5JiAegc8EOw "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

This is entirely false. I just did a 360 by kicking my legs on my office chair. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Don't underestimate the importance of this if you are buying new and find packing a "challenge". "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Bullshit. Ketamine is a dissociative anesthetic, not a euthanasia drug. It is not only used in cats, but also many other animals including valuable horses and neonatal humans. The problems arise when dumbass junkies start abusing the stuff. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What's THAT tell ya?! Even the so-called experts don't know what they're talking about so we should ignore their recommendations about minimum jump numbers for wingsuits, cameras, wing-loadings etc... "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Following a manufacturer's recommendation. Interesting concept. Guess it doesn't apply to canopy type and experience level. Well, fuck you very much for that. And that is what has caused me the problems. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA