DocPop

I am quite sure you did! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

+1 to everything you said but I would just add to the above: "..and having the balls and the inclination to do it." "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

To play devils advocate; I know of one S&TA that was tossed off a DZ (with video support) for being a safety hazard in multiple instances. A different S&TA passively participated in an event that ultimately let to a fatality. Counting on a USPA appointee doesn't offer any fundamental security. If there is to be a mandated course to pass people off for HP canopies or high wingloadings, it would require a consistent evaluative process vs an opinion. Agreed. I'm sure there are many S&TA's out there who are good, but I've known more than one that was a danger to themselves and everyone else. Being a S&TA doesn't make someone an authority on canopy flight (or anything for that matter). Ian I find this a rather disturbing admission. Effectively one of our self-regulation mechanisms is acknowledged to be failing. This could lead to the FAA deciding that perhaps we should not self-regulate if we cannot do it effectively. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Nobody can tell you how you will feel under a particular canopy because it is very subjective. I have never flown a canopy at less than 1:1 and I have not had problems, YMMV. All you can do is downsize progressively (ie. don't skip sizes). At the sizes/wingloadings you are talking about you are unlikely to get a massive shock from one size to the next. I agree with the comments above saying demo, demo, demo. Try before you buy. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What about cutting away when this happens? I have no idea if this will work as I don;t know how quickly it all happens but I would think that someone could grab a cutaway handle and pull it quicker than they could throw someone out of the plane. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

We should be talking about enforcement, that is where the weakness is. Every dropzone should be taking its own responsibility, regardless of whether or not the USPA mandates something or not. The fact is, when avoidable accidents happen, the S&TA system is failing. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Thanks Matt. That's exactly the answer to the question I was trying to ask. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You can still land with almost zero VERTICAL speed even downwind. If you then transition to a slide there is very little force on the body, provided you don't slide into an obstacle. IMO and that of others, rolling (PLFing) is more likely to result in injury than sliding, when the body has a lot of horizontal speed. Check this: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=729 "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

The right suit will help you with this. You could also ask a coach to start working with you on flying mantis which will help your range without the need to arch so hard. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Just to clarify - landing downwind in a 15kt wind can be accomplished perfectly safely as I and countless others have proved. You really think he doesnt know that? 15 kt plus the speed of a canopy could be fatal if you flew into something. No, I am quite sure that Bill knows that. Hence my use of the phrase "Just to clarify" for newbies who are reading this. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Again, not if there is sufficient horizontal separation. you should be telling people on the plane you plan of pulling at 5K regardless of how you think the horizontal seperation is going to work out you especially should be telling people your pulling at 5K if they are doing the same type of jump as you(belly for example) and they plan on exiting after you Why? Oh yeah - so they can allow sufficient horizontal separation!! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Just to clarify - landing downwind in a 15kt wind can be accomplished perfectly safely as I and countless others have proved. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I agree that I am not "low". Many might say I am high. But my enjoyment in this sport is more from the canopy ride than the freefall. I would rather do altitude clear and pulls all the time, but for various reasons I can't. Again, many might disagree and that's entirely their right. To suggest that I don't belong in skydiving because I prefer to pull at 4,000' is a very narrow-minded, elitist view. My hard deck is also 2,000', but unlike you it is HARD. When that alarm goes off if I still don;t have a good main I am chopping. People have died because of "it's just one more line twist". My original post started with "My view is...". I am not suggesting that it is right for other people, I just thought that some newer jumpers might like to hear a different point of view. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Sounds like we are talking about forcing the canopy to plane out before the natural recovery arc versus extending the glide on rears after the canopy has planed out naturally. The first would be "in the corner" (even if only slightly) and the second would not. What I am trying to understand is if Pendragon's technique is the former and, if so, is there some kind of performance advantage to that type of landing. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Again, not if there is sufficient horizontal separation. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Thanks for the explanation. So if I understand correctly, you are going for some kind of a sling-shot effect? Don;t worry - I am not about to try it. I am not doing 270s and only use rears occasionally when my plane out looks good after the turn. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Can you explain a little more why you have to "force the plane-out"? Is this not a way of saying you are in the corner? Please excuse me if I have misunderstood - not trying to cause trouble, just to understand! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That's what you're gambling your LIFE on? I really hope you rethink this line of reasoning. If somebody kills you, what does it matter whose fault it was? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Fail. AADs fire when pressure INCREASES, not due to a sudden decrease in pressure. The risk with AADs in a trunk is the sudden increase in pressure when the lid/door is slammed shut causing AAD activation. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Not to be confused with a little "soutie", right! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Fuck no! Why would i want all that canopy traffic!! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

OK, you're crazy. That is some really flawed logic. You should never rely on vertical separation. What happens when the guy above you has a high speed mal? Sure, pull low if that's what floats your boat, but separation is NOT a valid reason for doing so. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That says more about American parochialism than it does of Shropshire's choice of words. In this context, "right crackers" means "some excellent ones". On a separate note, if black people are allowed to use "nigger" I don't see why they would object to whites using "cracker". "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Again, not flaming you at all, but this could be a good learning opportunity. You don't need to worry about flaring differently for a downwind landing - the goal is still to plane out within touch-down distance of the ground. The key difference is that you may not be able to get to a speed where you can comfortably stand up the landing. To help with this, you can do two things: 1. Ensure you complete your flare, to minimize your airspeed. 2. Be prepared to slide your landing in without trying to stand it up. Hope this helps. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Sorry to hear about the accumulation of silica based material in your birth canal. I believe the abrasive form of my message would have been something more akin to: "Are you fucking crazy? Do not jump any more until you speak to someone who can teach you how to flare." My response started with a pat on the back for something done well and then a suggestion for a way to avoid potential future injury. If that is too abrasive then maybe you might want to reconsider your involvement in this sport. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA