DocPop

I think it is safe to say that military round jumps will offer nothing to canopy control on a ram air reserve (except the ability to do a good PLF). My opinion is that this is a bad decision, and I just hope it is not the first in a chain of events that results in a post in the incidents forum. Did your friend make this decision because he "got a deal" on this container/reserve combo? Finally, I believe it is illegal in the USA to jump a reserve loaded at 1.4 or higher unless you have 500+ jumps or a signed waiver in the logbook from an instructor. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

It is outside the recommendations, but beyond that, without knowing WL or skill level I won't comment any further. What seems strange to me is why someone who wants to jump a 170 as a main would feel OK downsizing 40 sq ft in an emergency. I don;t understand that logic. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You are correct, of course. I wanted to caution against wasting money on a new container for the first rig, but my answer was not well thought out. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Bearing in mind GLIDEANGLE's excellent comments..... .....get whatever you can find second hand at a good price to fit your first canopies. You are going to want a new container in a couple of hundred jumps anyway most likely. Worry about getting a new one then. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I would agree with you. Just because this person escaped without a femur sticking through their skin, doesn't mean we can't learn from it. - Would it have been more relevant if it had resulted in a fracture or paralysis? - Are we to dictate a minimum level of injury before an incident is deemed worthy of discussion? In several recent threads about fatality statistics, the point has been made that we have little data about non-fatal incidents and we can capture some of that information here (within the general rules of the forum). "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What about "Only pull the cutaway handle if above 1,000 feet AGL"? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

The main point is that the rate at which you replace your gear is never faster than when you are a new jumper. As you get more experience over the first few hundred jumps you may want different things out of your canopies and/or container and you will almost certainly want to downsize from your first canopy. This means that investing in new equipment (with the exception of an AAD which you can keep for life) is a very expensive way to get into the sport. Better to wait until you have found out more or less the gear you want long term before coughing up the cash for new gear. In my own case, my first rig was a second hand Javelin, with a reserve and an AAD. I bought a new Sabre2 150 because it was easier and quicker than trying to snag a used one as they sold so quickly. Through jumping that gear I found out that my interests lie in learning to freefly and to swoop. Last season I bought a new Infinity sized for up to a 135 main and an Optimum 143. I never expect to want to jump a smaller reserve and my next main will probably be either a 9-cell 120 or a 107 (either of which should fit) and then (in 500 or so more jumps) I'll go to a smaller crossbraced canopy which again will fit in this container. In other words, the container I now have will be with me for as long as I am jumping. As you rightly said, this early in your jumping career you really don't know what you want/need. By all means think about a Pulse, but by demoing other "intermediate" canopies you may find a canopy whose characteristics you like even more. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What I saw on that video was a lot of unnecessary toggle input between the final turn and the flare. This robs the canopy of speed and therefore stability. That's what I meant by it being flown badly for the conditions. The pilot should have let the canopy fly in full flight. Having said that, I don't there was anything that would have helped in this case as it was so severe. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

So you can be "spanker"? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Any details on experience, equipment, turn degrees and initiation height? If we are going to discuss this we should at least get some facts. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What exactly are you asking? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I never turn my Protrack off. It just powers off after a while. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That was f...king scary. Very odd to see someone on a 98 sq ft x-brace come in so conservatively though. I think there is something more to this story. If he was worried about the winds he flew his canopy completely wrong (ie. all the toggle inputs). "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

As well as cost, you also need to consider the effect on pack volume - which I understand can be quite significant - and resale value. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I also found that people find canopies easier to pack if they know the 'anatomy' of what they are looking at. At my home DZ we have a canopy hanging from the roof as though it was flying, with all the lines still attached. 5 minutes looking up at that and suddenly A, B, C and D lines all make sense as do stabilizers, cascades, brake lines etc. When I teach to pack I start by looking at that end then refer back up to it during the pack job. It seems to help. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I am so pleased someone brought a note of sanity to all this "Little Person" bullshit. That phrase is so patronizing. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Eyes that beep? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

The Pulse bottom skin is the same material as used in Optimum reserves, and I doubt there is much long term degradation info about it. PD do "wearability" tests, but I think these are more likely to be accelerated wear tests than real-time degradation over years in service. I do know that their criteria for using the material in a main were different than those for using it in a reserve. I suggest calling PD - and then posting what you find out! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Can't I just be bitter? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Bingo! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

So, if you don't know what it is - probably best to tread on it? It is symptomatic of a general lack of respect for others possessions in society. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I don't buy this. If someone left a t-shirt on the ground I would not tread on it - I would walk around it. Why would skydiving equipment be less worthy of respect than a t-shirt? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I have now had the chance to make some jumps with my new Revolve and is is perfect. Quiet, comfortable, easy to use and very stable even in a sit. Thanks Bonehead! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Just finished the trip and I had an excellent time. I jumped at Rustenburg and Skydive Central (Bloemfontein). Got weathered out at Mossel Bay and JSC saw fit to crash their PAC into a fuel bowser on Saturday so I never got to jump there. Many thanks to all the great people who advised me on jumping in SA, esp. Rob Kruger, Hein Geldenhuys and Glen Vermeulen. As to my initial question, my canopy did feel fast, but not to the point where I felt out of control. I did take things very easy due to the altitude, heat, my uncurrency (4 months off) and the fact that I am already over the recommendations for downsizing. I also felt that coming straight in, my Katana seemed to have a very steep descent, but that may be because I usually do some kind of HP landing and am used to experiencing plane-out on most jumps. The most I did was 90 turn and the additional altitude loss was quite noticeable, and I have to say - a lot of fun! I can't say I noticed much difference in the flare (I was expecting it to be "weaker"). I hope this thread might be helpful to other new jumpers going to a high altitude DZ. I would now be interested to see how a 120 or a 107 feels at my own dropzone......but that is just asking for trouble and I'll be waiting another couple of hundred jumps for that! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What do you want your canopy to do? What are you trying to learn? Canopy piloting covers a range of things including swooping, accuracy, CRW and even just learning to be a safer, more heads-up pilot. You can learn the basics of most, if not all, of these at low wingloadings. I think the best way to know if you are ready to downsize is to perform exercises such as those in BillVon's checklist, and when you are confident performing all the drills you are probably OK to downsize and start learning how to do them all over again on the faster canopy. IMO, therefore, the best approach would be to start at a conservative sized wing and work though the checklist on each before downsizing. This might only take 10-20 jumps on each wing, but eventually you will find a canopy which has enough performance for you. If you felt that the 170 was fast, you might want to start this progression with a 200 or a 210. Additionally, canopy coaching and dedicated, high-pull canopy drill jumps will accelerate your learning rate. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA