DocPop

Don't write it off just yet. I have done 4 canopy courses (with another 3 booked for this year!) and landing video was a major feature of all of them. I think what Bill was trying to get at was just ignore the camera. Do your normal landing and keep the camera guy out of the way. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=dakine+luggage&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=9072179190358565904&sa=X&ei=nf6ATfKnM6S10QGqy_WCCQ&ved=0CFoQ8gIwBA# "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

From here http://www.uspa.org/USPAMembers/Safety/CanopySafetyDiscussion/tabid/495/Default.aspx: "Canopy Collisions—38 fatalities, some caused by being too close on deployment but most are collisions at pattern altitudes. High-performance approaches resulting in striking slower-flying canopies are on the rise." "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

It seems to me that there is no right answer here (as acknowledged by the USPA) in that once in a PCIT situation you can't know if the right thing is to cutaway or not, until you have done it and seen the outcome. My personal choice is not to alter my practiced EPs in the middle of a mal. I will cutaway and then deploy the reserve. That decision could kill me, or it could save me. I won't know until it happens. FWIW I jump a pull-out so technically I can't really have a PCIT. It would have to be an open container situation which would make it a horseshoe. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You need to have this conversation with your AFFI. There is more to flaring than just when. There is also how. For example you may need to flare faster, rather than earlier. Nobody but your instructor will be able to tell you that. Ask before your next jump, otherwise it will be on your mind. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I had a Techno 155 in a Javelin J1 and it fitted just about right. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What is the common stupid shit you see people doing? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Listen people, in case post #56 was mis-interpreted, I will re-state my position. I have been persuaded by this thread that my previous position of mandating a higher minimum pull altitude was wrong. Yes, I said I was wrong. I still think sucking it down low is stupid, dangerous and leads to preventable deaths BUT I now believe that education, not regulation is the correct way to deal with it. If nothing else, that shows I am listening to what is being said here. If there are people that want to slam me AFTER I have admitted to being wrong and learning from the more experienced people on dz.com - then please feel free to go fuck yourselves. Everyone has a right to express an opinion on here, but slamming someone after they have admitted they were wrong just makes you a tool. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Read post #56 "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I'll pile-on against Doc Pop, on top of mojosparky. It has struck me as very out of place that DocPop, with only 200 jumps, feels like he knows what's best for everyone else, and is willing to tell all of us that we should open higher. So, like mojo said, DocPop: try listening and learning more, instead of using limited knowledge to act like a know-it-all. When you were fresh out of medical school, did you go around telling all the more experienced doctors that they were performing their surgeries incorrectly? Read post #56 "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I was able to find 31 fatalities from 2004 to 2010 that would fit the scenario “low cutaway/low reserve. That’s about 6% of the total for that time period. I was able to find 133 that would fit the scenario “low turn from 2004 to 2010. That’s about 30% of the total. You want make a rule (BSR) to save people by making them open higher and have more time before impacts. You have 200 jumps over a 4 year period of time. But you jump a Katana 135 loaded at 1.56:1. PD states that this canopy is not for novice or intermediate canopy pilots. Even if we stretch it and say you were advanced you are loaded 30+ lbs over published maximums. “Katana is intended for experienced canopy pilots.” PD Do you think we should make a BSR enforcing WL to protect jumpers who have mad skills from killing themselves? I don’t think so. Sparky FYI: After reading some of your posts you would probably take less heat if you spent more listening and learning. Less time handing out jewels of wisdom. Read my post #56. I had the balls to admit that I was wrong about doing this through regulation. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Of course. Although we tend to rely on horizontal separation at my regular DZ. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I see what you guys are saying about trying to save people from themselves and over-regulation etc. I guess it is better to leave people to make their own stupid mistakes if that's what they're going to do. I am still going to pull at 4,000' when I can and hopefully that won't bother anybody. I know it gets up my nose when the canopy nazis start talking about wingloading/downsizing regulations so I should not be a hypocrite. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I have nowhere near your experience, but I did the same. I took it off when I moved to an HP canopy, and then put it back on after reading about various incidents. I agree with your "shit happens" comment. You just have to go with what will work best with the likely shit vs the unlikely shit! For me (with no cutaways to my name), I want a reserve our even if I don't pull the reserve handle. I may live (or die) to regret that decision....watch this space! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

These two statements are contradictory. You are exhibiting the common human trait of resistance to change. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Fine then. If people go in - fuck 'em - they deserved it. We are talking about giving people a little more time when things don't do exactly as planned. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Thanks for the answers, Wendy. I don't really see any of them as valid reasons for disconnecting something which is a proven life-saver. I would rather be dragged than bounce, and someone experienced enough to be jumping in winds that strong really should be heads-up enough to disconnect the RSL after opening. I don't (and won't) jump big-ways but it seems to me that a better answer than disconnecting the RSL would be to track better (ie. get horizontal separation) so there is nobody below you when/if you get a mal. Maybe I am missing something on this one as it is outside my experience. I reference all the other posts which talk about reserve line-twists vs. going in trying to get stable. Riser failure - removing a safety device is not a good answer to poor gear maintenance. Cutaway failure - as above (if the cable fails) and bad luck if you just don't pull far enough, but still not valid reasons in my opinion. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Should. Could. But will they? Nobody wants two canopies out.If x people per year get caught out with current AAD activation altitudes and end up with two canopies out, then raising the activation altitude of AADs will lead to y people getting caught out. y > x "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

There are few people with more of a vested interest in getting people to move away from the conventional RSL than BB! Could you please list the other valid reasons for disconnecting an RSL? That would really help us newbies in making an informed decision. Thanks. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Yes, it's a chicken and egg situation! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Or increase the number of two-out situations. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Sucks for BASE. For skydiving it sounds like a great idea. Higher pull altitude could also have positive effects on canopy collisions in the pattern as the greater altitude would also cause greater separation between the fast, "sinky" canopies and the slower, floatier ones. To me, sacrificing a bit of freefall time for a bunch of extra safety sounds like a great trade-off. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Glad you're (relatively) OK. You are right about flat turns being one option in this situation, and in order to be confident and competent to use them near the ground you need to practice them up high, and keep doing it on all jumps where you have the time. Personally I fly my pattern by making the turns as flat as possible. This gives me practice on every jump and also slows my pattern down which helps me with accuracy. The other point to highlight is that the point you realized that you weren't going to make it was on final. This is really too late. You should avoid flying over obstacles while in your pattern (ideally) and certainly on final. Overall, as with a lot of incidents, it was a string of things that led to your painful landing rather than one single cause. Good job on recognizing them and learning from them. Also, thanks for posting here for others to learn. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Kittens. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I jumped regularly with one of the guys who got badly hurt in SA during that competition and the was one of the reasons why I started this thread. I wanted to get some advice because if it can happen to a competitive swooper, it sure as hell can happen to me. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA