BikerBabe

honestly, i think we're off track here. the OP was really talking about this stupid idea that we have in america these days that intelligence and /or education = elitist (or bad). Newsweek has done a couple awesome articles about this phenomenon over the past couple weeks, first one was about Palin, the second was actually about Leonard Bernstein. here's one: http://www.newsweek.com/id/164499 more about high culture than science, but it's the same idea: "Today, when high and low culture sneer at each other across a gulf of incomprehension and politically useful ill will, Bernstein seems a glorious freak: the avatar of a democratic cultural dream that elitism and populism can commune, not to cancel each other out but to their mutual benefit." And the other, about Palin herself and why being "just one of the folks" is NOT necessarily a great thing for this country... http://www.newsweek.com/id/162396 Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

come on, paul, you know the bible isn't a science book, nor is it meant to be treated as such. yet so many people on both sides of this silly "science vs. religion" debate seem to think it should be. science and faith aren't mutually exclusive, IMHO. I wish people would stop trying to make them be. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Toad the Wet Sprocket AC/DC Boston gah, only 3? I didn't include any of what i listen to most, which is EDM, since they aren't really "bands" persay, unless you include the Crystal Method or the Chemical Brothers. BT, Hybrid, Sasha, Way Out West, Gorillaz, Felix da Housecat, Basement Jaxx, LCD Soundsystem, and countless others... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I'd have to say U2's Popmart show i saw in clemson stadium is up there...but the winner is: Toad the Wet Sprocket, 1993 in my hometown. Amazing show by an absolutely amazing, groundbreaking band. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

what's the name of the virus? I somehow picked up a nasty one called "vundo"...liked to block ALL anti-virus and computer help websites, put random icons on my desktop, and open a "phantom" version of internet explorer that ran in the background constantly, and i couldn't shut it down. I had to download 3 different AV and spyware programs on a DIFFERENT computer, mail them to myself, and get them onto my machine that way. Anyway, do a google search on your symptoms, there are lots out there! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I suppose i can try to convince myself that those 16 people are just joking... It can't be TRUE, can it?! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

the results of this poll make me truly sad. I suppose i should be happy that "he's a socialist" is winning...i mean, it's only beating "he's black" by two votes So much for us being enlightened, not racist, or open minded. Whoever you plan to vote for, you might take a look at this and lament a little for America. One would think in the 21st century we would have come a little further than that. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Waiting for my ballot to arrive, ad if it doesn't come in time, i'll go to a polling place. This is an exciting year! I can't wait to see the voter turnout. As I drove to pick up my hubby from work today, i saw various mini-rallies at several different intersections, for and against CA Prop. 8 (gay marriage). Never in my life have i actually seen people waving signs in the streets for anything political, except on the news or in old films about the 60s. Whatever your views on Prop 8 in california (if you live/vote in CA), you can't help but be excited that it's actually bringing people to the polls...perhaps people who wouldn't have voted otherwise. It's like decades of apathy are going away, and people are starting to care again. they cynic in me says i don't necessarily *want* some of these people at the polls, especially the ones who want to vote yes on prop 8, but the idealistic good citizen part of me is excited to see people caring again... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

acidic or not, as you can see from the responses, apparently sarcasm and satire are a lost art form in this day and age. People considered Gulliver's Travels acidic, hateful, and too controversial to read when it was first published...and it is arguably one of the greatest works of satirical literature of all time. I'm not saying that Bill is Jonathan Swift. What I'm saying is that people need to perhaps not take themselves so damned seriously all the time that they can't even SEE when someone is maybe not being 100% serious, or perhaps think about the motivation behind a post making light of someone else's... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

missed this while writing my previous reply... Oh, I got it, and i chuckled. But then, I understand satire ;) My guess is, the people who understand Bill's post are quietly sitting back and watching those who can't see the irony make posts in this thread Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Bill, people in this forum do not understand subtle humor, irony, or ESPECIALLY satire. You should know that by now. Kinda sad, actually. I would have given up by now, but you still go at it like a trooper! "Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own"--Jonathan Swift Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I had a "yes on prop 8" volunteer call me yesterday. He had a hard time believing that i was a christian who was going to vote no...and i think i overwhelmed him a bit with my list of reasons to vote no, 100% in counterpoint to his list of reasons to vote yes. I kinda felt sorry for the guy >< As for the others, i'm an idealist, plain and simple. I'm voting for the train and energy things because i believe it's the right thing to do, no matter what. Yes on 2, no on 4, yes on 5, yes on 11. I haven't read enough about the others to make a decision yet. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

For the first time in 6 years...neither will I!! it's kind of a weird feeling, lol Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

oh come on, it's just a little bit of fun as a break from the bickering. lighten up Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I always wear a full face, full leathers, gloves, and boots when i ride. but i also think that's MY choice. To be honest, i prefer that there be no helmet laws. No offense to you helmetless folks, but i say let good ol' Darwin do his work, if you get my meaning. Sometimes, stupid is not a choice. In this case? stupid is a choice which everyone should be free to make. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

wow *checks out the window* yup, it's a full moon! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I can't believe it. My heart and prayers are with Harry, his family, and Janna. BSBD Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

well, i can only speak for myself, though the reasons might apply to others. First, I have too many things from my past that, a) I don't want dragged into the media frenzy and b) if those things were revealed they would ensure my sound defeat, anyway. Second, and probably more damning, is that i have an extremely low tolerance for stupidity and a blunt directness that is very much at odds with any sort of diplomatic or political type of negotiation. It's not a temper, just an overactive mouth that seems to get me in trouble a lot as it is...good god, i can't imagine what would happen if i was campaigning. Those things aside, i actually would run, not for glory, but because deep down i'm still a starry-eyed idealist who would hope to go in and change things. I am disgusted with the people in the offices, not those things which they represent. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

after reading the replies in this thread, all i can say is this: WHOOSH! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I think THIS here is one of the keys to the issue. Darius is right, there IS a bias against intelligence and education in this country. And what i quoted is one of the main reasons, i think. Somewhere, somewhen, we became obsessed with being "fair", to the point of distorting the actual definition of what is fair. It is considered "unfair" now to separate the gifted kids from the "normal" kids. Unfair to celebrate their achievements. Unfair to lift them up as examples to strive for. So in our desperate attempt to be "fair" we eliminate gifted programs, and AP classes, and encouragement for college degrees, etc. Because not making it into these classes would hurt the precious self-esteem of the kids who just aren't as intelligent. There, i said it. for fuck's sake, YES, there are kids who are smarter than other kids. I'm sorry if your kid can't pass the test to get into AP English. It's not for everyone. The reason kids of other cultures do well in our system is because those other cultures/countries send their best and brightest here to study. They also understand that there are people who are meant to be nuclear physicists, and people who are not. They continuously test and evaluate and place the kids where they need to be based on those evaluations. They do NOT try to force every kid into the same educational mold. Every kid starts out the same. they have the chances to prove themselves educationally. But they aren't forced to attempt to do things they can't. Our worst mistake and disservice to kids now is not nurturing intelligence. Eliminating gifted programs and ap classes and such is one of the biggest mistakes schools can make, IMHO. But it will keep happening if we continue to be more obsessed with self-esteem than with learning. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

If Obama's mother is a citizen of the US, naturalized or otherwise, then it doesn't matter where he was born. The child of a US citizen is automatically a citizen as soon as the birth is registered at a US Consul/embassy (if born abroad). Trust me, i know of what i speak. My mother was born in canada of American parents who were there for several years working at a university. She has always been and always will be a US citizen. Of course, i had to research all this because apparently many people don't understand this fact, including the people who investigate security clearances. Every clearance i applied for was held up because they thought she was canadian... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

The twin otter is rated as a STOL aircraft, though those capabilities are rarely used, at least not in skydiving ops, heh. I once calculated the landing distance in standard atmospheric conditions to be somewhere around 750 ft. (no wind) they're also excellent for operations in austere conditions, which is why they were/are popular with many militaries. The US Air Force has 3 operational UV-18B Twin Otters, all of which are used by the USAFA parachute team, the Wings of Blue. It really is a neat airplane, if you delve a bit. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

i love it. LOVE IT! i swear, the onion and the daily show are better truth-telling news sources nowadays than the "real news"... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

only time id consider texting over calling is if the background is too loud to hear anything in. What's the difference? rather have someone texting than hear them screaming into their phone trying to have a conversation. Hell, sometimes those places are so loud you have to text the person next to you to have a conversation! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

There's plenty of scientific backing. All of which has been repeatedly cited in this thread and others. To me, it's evidence. To you, it is not. We then get back to a question i posed to you a long time ago. If the countless scientific studies (vetted and peer-reviewed) aren't enough to convince you, then what evidence WOULD convince you? I would make an assumption that there will never be ANY evidence enough to convince you, thus arguing the point with you is unproductive. But now i'm to the point of defending myself against veiled personal attacks when i have never done anything to warrant it but disagree with you and perhaps ask you some tough questions. Find a quote, please. I never claimed that. Then what are you against? why are we discussing this? Are you implying that i'm an elitist because I think ecological responsibility is the right thing to do? I could turn it around and call you an elitist for implying that my beliefs are somehow stupid or wrong. To me this issue isn't about elitism at all. By the way, you are perfectly free to not change your life in the slightest, but then again, I am also perfectly free to believe that you are wrong in doing so. If you don't think i'm free to believe that, well then, we have other issues, such as hypocrisy, to discuss. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!