BikerBabe

Stop the presses! mark the date... I actually AGREE with rushmc! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Which is what i've been trying to say and explain as to how i can be a christian and still believe that evolution is correct. Thanks for stating it so succinctly

i see that any sort of informed or polite discussion on this matter is fruitless. Note that I have not devolved into senseless and petty attacks on YOUR beliefs (this is pointed to all who are attacking me and lumping me with people like chuteless, not just you, birdlike). Have i tried to convert you? Have I said you're going to hell for not being a christian? Have i said you're ridiculous, idiotic, or blind? If someone totally neutral came in here and read these posts, who would look like the assholes? would you be happier if i made fun of atheism and told you all you were going straight to hell and that you should repent and all that? Would you rather i DID try to convert you? Sounds like that's what you've come to expect, and can't see a difference even if it's thrown in your face. For that i am sorry. All I have done is try to explain, from a Christian point of view, how science and faith are NOT mutually exclusive. All YOU have done is rant at me, called my beliefs stupid, and presented no evidence (which scientists, myself being one of them, are usually quite fond of) or no logical coherent argument to the contrary. Honestly, it sounds to me like you're scared. You're scared of the possibility that science and faith CAN co-exist, and are doing your best to make sure that doesn't happen. At least not peacefully. Or you're scared that you met a Christian who doesn't fit your stereotype. So which is it? As for the bible scholar crack...I started reading the bible when i was an atheist. Know thine enemy and all that. Oh yeah, did i mention i used to be an atheist? Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

It's a great game. I'd love to play it with ya, but alas, i own it for xbox360. someday i'll have a PS3...probably about the same time the PS4 comes out, heh. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Because according to Christianity, this world was mad for man, we are not animals like everything else; we are the reason for existence. This, by the way, is absurd. Actually, you're quite wrong. Even if we WERE to take Genesis as literal fact, that book itself contradicts your assertion. (it also contradicts ITSELF, which any good Bible scholar will readily admit to you) Read it again if you doubt me. But then, I do not read Genesis as literal, as I explained before. And no, fortunately that does not go against the teachings of my church. I don't know what "the church" is that you are referring to. The Roman Catholic church in the traditional sense? If so, then you should know that the Roman Catholic church are also NOT bible literalists. As a matter of fact, most Protestant traditions also are not literalists...only the orthodox or fundamental sects of various denominations could truly be called that. The ONLY requirement to be a "Christian" is to repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. that's IT. ALL of the other stuff is religion, which, quite unfortunately, all too often gets very mixed up with faith by people with no wish to hear or even consider the possibility of changing their minds. And that statement unfortunately applies to BOTH sides of this argument, i fear. It seems to me that Chuteless has also lost sight of what it truly means to be Christian, moreso than some of the non-Christians on here! All that being said, please don't try to pigeonhole me into your narrow and incorrect view of Christianity. it's rather offensive, actually, especially after i've spent many many posts on this board articulately and calmly explaining my exact beliefs on this subject, with no intent to convert you or anyone else. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Doesn't really matter, to be honest. The point of the creation story in Genesis was to impress upon the hebrew people the awe-inspiring power of God. Not to explain science, or to try to be taken literally or interpreted through a scientific lens, etc It's only silly people like us who try to take it and make the bible into something it was never meant to be. It's not a science book. it's a faith book. If i want to read about the HOW of humanity, i read Darwin or Gould or somesuch. If i want to read about the WHY of humanity, i read the Bible. and THAT is the fundamental difference. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I'm sorry that you think i'm a creationist. the creation story is not, nor will it EVER be, science. Nowhere in my posts have i said that evolution is wrong, in fact, every word i have posted has argued to the contrary. Please reread. I said i believe God created everything. I did NOT say i believe that God didn't create evolution as well, as a means to His end. I never once said that the Genesis story isn't more than a metaphor given to a people over 5000 years ago to attempt to assuage their fears by trying to explain the unexplainable. If god had said "well, abraham, what really happened was this:" then launched into a lengthy discussion of evolutionary biology...really...do you think they would have "got it"? The purpose of the Bible, as a book of FAITH, is to outline, examine, and describe that faith. It's not a science book. It's people like Bill who try to make it into one. Your post should be directed at chuteless. I do NOT believe that science and faith are mutually exclusive. As a matter of fact, the more science we know, the more they become mutually INclusive. in short, evolution happened as the fossil records, Darwin, and whoever else you wish to quote have proven it did. I also happen to believe that all of it is created by God. I am not trying to convert you. I am not stumped by the questions. However, you may choose to hear what you want to hear in my responses...that i cannot change. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

well said, and what i've been trying to communicate, as well. And actually, God DOES prefer that we use our brains...it's why He gave us free will. Honestly, what value would forced belief have? How much more valuable is the worship of those who CHOOSE to believe in Him freely, which is why free will is His greatest gift to us. Coming to God because you're told to is much less powerful and meaningful than coming to God because you choose to. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

wait, so you're saying science was made by satan? I see. I thought God was the only creator? Here is where we differ, Bill. I BELIEVE that science is a "thing of God", since God created everything. You do not, you think it is a thing of satan. So the fact that you are using science for your personal benefit doesn't kinda sit badly with you? I mean, it IS a thing of the world, and thus of Satan. So perhaps you'd best destroy your computer, move out to a lean-to in the woods, eat food you only grow and gather for yourself, never see a doctor, write a letter, read a book, or use a flush toilet again. All those things came from science. So you are not only proud and apparently KNOW without a doubt the mind of God, you are also a hypocrite. good to know. By the way, Bill, i have repented and accepted Christ. Fortunately, Christ loves everyone equally.

If you mean evolution, of course not. If you mean leaving open the possibility (the surety, in my mind) that there is no way for humans to fully understand God or his plans, then yes, that sentiment is everywhere. This, of course, leaves open all manner of scientific possibilities. Check my quote from Job for an example. Heck, God is even a little bit sarcastic there Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

wait, if he created it all, did he NOT create "the thought of man in the world"? If that's something we made up...then it means God did NOT create everything, as you say. so which is it? Where in the bible does it say i have to choose between using my God-given FREE WILL and my God-given conscience? NOWHERE. because free will is one of God's gifts to us. You are very proud, Bill, to claim to know without a doubt the mind and plan of God. Once again i repeat some verses that perhaps you and many like you should take to heart: Job 38:4-7 "4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone- 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?" Where were you, Bill? Surely YOU know the mind of God, since you seem so eager to tell us... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

so what's the point of science? Bill, i'm a Christian who believes that science is one way we have of becoming closer to God. Please, continue to tell me that's crap and i'll see you for what you are. Shall we descend into purely logical argument for a moment, then? Because we all know that logic applies so well to matters of faith, but in this case, indulge me. You know, because God gave us rational minds and all that. 1. You believe that God created the universe and all its inhabitants and everything else in it as they are. If this is incorrect, please put me to rights. 2. If God created everything, it logically follows that He created science. 3. Bill calls science "total crap", thus calling something God-created "total crap". 4. Wait, Bill thinks God is total crap???!!! By the way, evolution (with Darwinian natural selection as the mechanism) is NOT incompatible with creation in my mind. See my little logic experiment above ;) As for being "descended from apes"...why not read some anthropology books for once and see that we didn't descend from "apes". We descended from a common ancestor that split millions of years ago. If you seriously think evolution says that a chimp is your great grandfather, well, that just makes people laugh at you for being uninformed. Thinkgeek.com has a great t-shirt: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/sciencemath/9899/ but i guess DNA analysis is crap, too... But Bill, i point you Job 38:4-7 for reproof, not from me, but from God himself: "4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone- 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?" Surely you know? Surely... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

when i was a young 2lt, i participated in a cockpit sizing study (i.e. measuring current cockpits with very short or very tall people in them to see reaches, space, etc) Got to travel all over the place and sit in just about every aircraft in the operational USAF inventory...but the best and most memorable was the trip to the plant in georgia where the first test models of the f22 were coming off the line...got to play around in a real f22 cockpit. very very cool! It looks like a video game console :P Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Don't know you, but anyone who has the same b-day as me has to be cool! Happy birthday! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

where's your "i wouldn't get pregnant in the first place" option? Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I'm going to go with YES here! flaring is one thing, but you need to be concerned with your SAFETY here. this is making a big alarm bell go off in my head. Have you mentioned this to your instructors? Not to scare you, but read what you wrote. If that's true, now stop and think about what might happen if you have to cut away your main in a low-speed malfunction situation? The chest strap is across your CHEST for a reason. Not to get off-topic, but this alarms me. a lot. You need to find a rig with significantly shorter main lift webs, or at least one where you can adjust the chest strap lower. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

haha! I wasn't aware that the WSJ had a comics section! Nice to see them lightening up a bit! Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Same. What's the issue again? Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I point you to JohnRich's post. This article is out of control media, plain and simple. Please don't bring inter-service rivalries into, either, because that's ridiculous. If you think the army and navy don't have security investigations of which the results turn out to be "no information was compromised" on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis, i think i have some seaside property in Arizona to sell you. Out of curiosity, have you ever observed a tank crew for an extended period of time? (genuinely curious, as I have not and would be interested in knowing how the rapport is between the officer and enlisted members of said crews) Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Colin Firth (the entire body of his work...especially the 1995 BBC Pride and Prejudice, but anything with Colin will do...) The Lord of the Rings movies (extended DVD versions) Shawshank Redemption Field of Dreams Maybe i should take this to the "celebrities you'd sleep with" thread...hmm.... Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

And DeVoll clams up. How surprising. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

To be sure. Way overhyped and overreacted to. Thank god my poor friend who missed an unlocked safe in his end of the day security check did it 8 years ago and not today. There was a security investigation, like in the article, and it was found that nothing was compromised...and he had to go to some re-training. God forbid the media didn't get a hold of it! *shakes head in amazement* I give you the following: The young Lt.? Colin Powell. http://www.3ad.com/history/cold.war/feature.pages/powell.htm Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

DeVoll, had you really read my two posts, you would note that in no way did i mention global warming or climate change. I tend to gravitate toward ALL threads of this nature and ask the same question, whether it be politics, environmentalism,or any such issue. And may i remind you that YOU began the thread. If it is not an issue, why start a new thread about it at all? My question is a GENERAL one. And you have of course added more weight to my hypothesis by patently refusing to answer a simple question. Shall I repeat it? For the sake of argument, how about you do, indeed, limit it to this particular issue: What "facts" (or category of facts, even) could someone with whom you disagree possibly present that would make you re-evaluate (not necessarily CHANGE) your position? If you are indeed as open-minded as you say, then there MUST be something out there that will cause you to take a good hard look at your position. So please, enlighten us. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

I am asking you politely, without resorting to the overuse of exclamation marks, what type of facts you would like to see. You say "give me facts." All I'm asking for is a bit more clarity to your question. How is that not fair? Tell me the type of "facts" that you would find acceptable to the argument at hand. By the way, facts that disprove or contradict your point are still facts. MY point with my posts is to have you prove my hypothesis that any evidence or facts that are contrary to YOUR opinion will be discounted by you as not being factual. Which, when followed to a logical conclusion, tells me that you are, indeed, close-minded about this issue. By the way, when i first read your post, i did NOT know what you meant and had to re-read the sentence and context several times. Communicating your points effectively goes a long way. Otherwise you stand the very great chance of having your readers discount your opinions as meaningless. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

You ask for facts. However, let me put to you the question that I have never once seen answered by anyone of your ilk in this forum: What "facts" would honestly make you re-evaluate your position? Do they exist? If they do, then please, point us in the right direction. If they don't, then why are you here other than to belittle others? By "re-evaluate" I don't necessarily mean "change your mind", either. If your mind is truly 100% closed on this issue, then why bother coming to a forum or starting a "debate" about it? My wager would be on the "just to hear yourself speak in a grammatically incorrect and loudmouthed manner" option. Case in point: What? Where? Did you mean to say, "that there is the problem" (in the manner of some southern or Texas vernacular) or "that is THEIR problem"? So for the folks who make fun of people who take the time to write and speak correctly, here is a perfect example of the ambiguity of meaning that can arise from IMPROPER use of the English language. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!