maadmax

Have you closed your mind to the possibility of him not existing*** No, I got that one easily covered. If that is true, then when the meaninglessness of my existence overtakes me with my last dying breath, I won't have missed a thing. My exciting, enjoyable, guilt free, transcendent, wonderful life will just disappear like the early morning mist. But if He does exist, eternity awaits to embrace me.

Right, no one should. Indeed, you could argue that the agnostics are the people with the most open minds; most fundamentalist's minds are completely closed to the possibility that God does not exist.*** Agnosticism is a good place to start, but it sure is a waste to get stuck there. For me God has provided the opportunity of knowing much more about Him than "ya I think He exists, maybe". Spiritually speaking, there is a universe of possibilities to explore. ________________________________________

>As such we can seek out a relationship with God or self-deify and >create our own concepts of truth. That is definitely true. If your concept of truth includes that the Earth is 6000 years old, then that's fine - as long as you don't try to teach kids geology, or work as a paleontologist. Likewise, if you don't believe in evolution, that's fine - as long as you're not a doctor or biologist. If you don't believe in gravity, that's also fine. Just avoid skydiving*** Right on all accounts. But unless you can conclusively explain the eternal nature of our existence and all of the forces that shape reality, you shouldn't close you mind to possibilities. As it is the quarks in you body and energy that powers your mind has been rambling around this latest phase of creation for 13.75 billion years with no loss of spin, charge or mass. Attributing this to blind chance is short sighted to say the least. ____________________________________

--OK. Atheists continually achieve wondrous things in their lives without any belief in God. What does that tell you*** I guess we will find out on that fateful day when all men are held accountable for what God has given them. Until then it is just a matter of belief. _____________________________________ --There are a lot of things like that out there. They are not evidence of God; they are evidence of a lack of understanding.*** Quite true base on your preconceived viewpoints. We have been endowed with the power to create our own reality. As such we can seek out a relationship with God or self-deify and create our own concepts of truth. ______________________________________

The bottom line is that you hold a set of beliefs that have absolutely no evidence in support of them, and all the gobbledeygook in the world won't change that*** Ask the helpless alcoholic who's life has been transformed by a personal relationship with Jesus at any of the daily AA meetings around the world if there is absolutely no evidence. Or the countless number of people who have found freedom, that were hopelessly ensnared by their self destructive sinful desires & behaviors, if there is no evidence. Repeatable results = Evidence ______________________________________-

I wonder if maybe you have the kind of personality that needs to strongly believe in something, and fulfilling that desire is how Christianity makes your life feel so meaningful.*** Can't speak for Ryan, but for me it was an almost irresistible pull, as if God was drawing me to Himself. He just had to turn up the heat a bit before I would listen. Fulfilling is putting it mildly. Refreshing, renewing, empowering, defining, completing is more like it. _______________________________________

QuoteQuoteDid you know that the Big Bounce Theory is Biblical Really? Please, tell me, what chapter and verse contains the equations that describe the quantum theory underlying the big bounce*** Sorry I wish I could answer that, but other than the link I gave you the rest is classified on a need to know basis only. ______________________________________

That sounds like a "God does all the stuff I don't understand." That's sort of limiting, though. I assume you do not understand the details of how vector AC motor drives work. Does that mean that you think God makes the elevator go between floors? Or do you assume that it's an electric motor that pulls on a cable, and you just don't understand all the details*** Not at all. When I see the electromagnetic footprint captured by the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe 380,000 million years after the big bang, my assumption is the same as when I see any foot print. Obviously it was left there by something. Had you asked me about how a vectored AC motor drives work 400 years ago, I would of said that it didn't and that alternating current was just a myth because there was no evidence for it. ______________________________________

--Why would you expect an atheist to know everything about how the universe came into existence? To be so bold as to say God does not exist, I would think that you would have some pretty solid answers about the origins of the universe. ______________________________________ ______________________________________ -- And then why do you not expect Christians to know how their god came into existence*** God did not have a beginning. " He is the same yesterday, today and forever" _____________________________________

--Try researching big bounce theories. There is a much higher probability that such a theory is accurate than some supernatural creator. You are right, it wouldn't make more sense. The two possibilities make the same amount of sense. Therefore the theories are not mutually exclusive.

Oh no. And what is the Christian God? The entire religion is based on the commands to worship, praise, and - at every conceivable opportunity - extol the virtues of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. As a Christian, that's your sole function, is it not? Then, when you go to Heaven, your mission never changes. It's all about how great God art, from wall to wall. Jesus teaches to forsake yourself and your family and friends in pursuit of God's righteousness - which no human could ever hope to attain ("None are righteous, no not one."). And if it were possible to attain righteousness, then what? You get a special place in Heaven, where all are supposedly equal? What?*** What you are referring to is self denial. It is a spiritual virtue. Jesus told us to deny ourselves and follow Him. The more you can remove yourself from the center stage of your created reality, the clearer you can see and perceive reality around you. It is also called humility. It is of course the opposite of being egocentric. ______________________________________

You need a special kind of faith to UNDERSTAND something that defies logic and for which no proof exists*** Yes you do. And it was very difficult at first. But the need in my life was great, so I persevered. Once I began putting it together and my life became transformed, the proof became self evident(a priori). ________________________________________

Same as Christians - you could ask "what _true_ Christianity is about" a Catholic, a protestant, a Jehova Witness, an Eastern Orthodox, and you will not get the same answers. Which means that in the best case only one of them is right, and the rest are wrong. It's also possible that all of them are wrong. You are starting to get it , maybe. "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that who so ever believed in Him should not perish but will have eternal life." Jesus died for our sins so we might have a relationship with God. ______________________________________ ______________________________________ Right?*** Right!

Agreed! Faith by itself is worthless. It is the object of faith that has value. But in your case the object of faith has no proven value until you believe in it*** Damn, we have agreed on two things in a row. You are right. The object of my faith has no value to someone who does not believe in it. But has great intrinsic worth to someone who UNDERSTANDS what is being said and believes! ________________________________________

Of course it does, because you choose to interpret ANYTHING that happens as evidence of God. Good things happen - God loves us. Bad things happen - God acts in mysterious ways*** If you actually understood what you were condemning there might be a possibility of a reasonable discussion. As it is, I haven't heard one comment from the atheistic corner that indicates any of you have the slightest clue what Christianity is about. If you could understand and admit to your failures, you would see that the healing message of Jesus has a lot to offer. For example: Good things happen - God loves us Bad things happen - God loves us "For we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His Purpose." _____________________________________

Absolutely! Look at how God reached out to people through Thor! In the day, people'd be crazy to mock Thor. linz*** And just when I had given up on you. Maybe there is hope for you yet ______________________________________

QuoteHow do you know your name is in the "book of life"?*** "He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments and I will not erase his name from the book of life..." Revelations 3:5 "And who is the one who overcomes the world? He who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. For whomever is born of God overcomes the world and this is the victory that has overcome the world - our faith." I John 5: 4 & 5 _____________________________________

That's one for the list. "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." I thank God that I am also on that list. _______________________________________

QuoteThen were dinosaurs just play toys for God's entertainment or what? Did they have any purpose? What are your thoughts*** You got me. But for better or worse all of that organic activity gave us the fossil fuels which powers our high standard of living. _____________________________________

QuoteGood answer.. The actual number of people throughout the history of the human species to have heard of JC must make up a very small percentage of all humans ever. Afterall, what is 2000 years a fraction of the span of human kind? It just does not make logical sense*** God has always reached out to man. Christianity is only the latest chapter. It makes perfect sense to me. _______________________________________

Believing in something doesn't make it any more real or "functional". Your claim that your faith "consistently produces good results" is just your perception and has nothing else to back it up. Bad things happen to good just like good things happen to bad people. Praying to any god does nothing more then act as placibo*** Agreed! Faith by itself is worthless. It is the object of faith that has value. If the principle believed in, is true, then acting on it produces desirable results. Faith can also be placed in false concepts that only produce harmful consequences when acted on. _____________________________________

I'm not sure where you're getting a "rage" vibe off me. I posted a joke. Secondly, I'm relatively well aware of the Christian dogma, having been raised in a cultish-level Christian church and attended its private school for several years of my life. There are many issues I'm "clueless" about, but Christianity is not one of them The anger behind your joke is very obvious to me and anyone else who values the message of Christ. Trying to hide it behind "O, I was just kidding or it was only a joke" does not diminish the rage and anger that motivated it in the first place. If you think your joke has any relation to the Christian message then you are indeed clueless no matter how much time you spent learning about it. ______________________________________

just throwin this out there, but does the bible say anything about dinosaurs*** I haven't read any mention of them in the Bible. My understanding of the Bible is that it was not meant to be a history book. Brief references to historical events were only to provide background information for the communication of Spiritual Truths. ______________________________________

how can you gain knowledge through faith? in terms of religion i mean, dont give me examples of having faith in flying thus the airplane was invented*** To incorporate spiritual truths into an individuals view of reality, faith in that concept is necessary to make it real. Once believed, the concept becomes functional and consistently produces good results if it is true, evil results if it is false. __________________________________________

I don't give a fat rats arse what your believe in, "what ever floats your boat" is fine by me, but i do draw the tolerance line at ignorance and faith pushing to those not interested*** I agree. We all have the freedom and responsibility to believe what ever we want. Since you are here in Speakers Corner, I assume you must be interested in discussing important issues with people of varying viewpoints. But if you are one of those "not interested" maybe the Bonfire would suit you better. _______________________________________