rynodigsmusic

Ive read all of your posts. I am disheartened that some will never see until it is too late. Have we not learned anything? People are not special in the flesh, we are not more important than a poor lonely widow in the rice fields of Myanmar. While I dont agree with our seemingly utter disregard to teach what is right to one another with a heart of understanding, mercy, forgiveness, truth, and love, I do consider it a blessing to be born in America. Most of us live in a lie. We sincerely believe that we love sin and we are willing to defend something that we truly deep down do not want...we are slaves in a prison we built, free to leave, but afraid to. We have posts and posts of free will discussions, when in reality free will exists to give us what we want, regardless if we know why. We are rebellious by nature even if that means remaining so stubborn that we will acutally do ourselves harm before aknowledging the truth. If we want a life of sin, we take it and the consequences it breeds, satisfying our rebelious nature, and filling our hearts desire with a lust that is only filled with more lust. When God introduced sin into this world, he had a purpose...to introduce grace, so that the spirit of God would live through man, Gods favorite creation, the Son of Man. Now sin has to be destroyed and will be once and for all, but the Word must still be fulfilled. God will get rid of all that causes sin and all who revel in it. He is destroying sins work and creating in us a new heart and a new mind, one that is open to recieve the limitless suppy of love that the spirit of God desires to graciously lavish on us (just try and imagine what power this love actually has). He is making us all to be just like him, but in a new form (with a body of some sort). All those who genuinely follow Jesus are being transformed into this spirit already, but just in such a small measure that Jesus literally describes it as being born again, that means like an infant. Surely we have all seen an infant...pretty miraculous arent they; bring alot of love into our hearts dont they? According to God, who did come down and tell us, those who find this grace will not die, but will be lifted up the skies to be with Jesus. We cant really fathom that reality, so we have living hope intstead, which is inspired more and more by love, which brings us joy. I think we know that two people could live in the same household, have the same opprotunitys, the same possessions ect...but one may be living in a darker part of his heart than the other. Meaning that this world, even the tragic circumstances, is not responsible for the amount of love we let in. Heaven is found and entered within the heart. The secret, as Jesus says it, is to leave everything, to die completely to this world. Now many people believe that to be literal, I dont, because that would go against the point of the secret. It isnt what you have or even what you dont have, its what has you and what doesnt have you. If our hearts are opened by anything, thats family to, that is not God, then we are subject to the devestation and hell of the heart right here on earth. On the otherhand, if Gods love is what reigns in our hearts, then it is Gods love that loves your family and your loved ones. Anytime love works through us, we feel the joy in that love as well. Loves very nature is to share, thats its passion, its purpose and it will devour anything that gets in its way, it is literally, either accept it, or die to it and never find it. Grace is that love. Like a waterfall in which you stand under, it will not let you out, but weve got to walk into the waterfall. Is God trying to tell us something? Absolutely. And its really not that hard to figure out. Sin is over, this worldly dominion that it bred will be destroyed and everyone who loves it will be destroyed with it. All those who hate it will find eternal life. Repent with all your heart and turn back to me in truth and I will love you as my own child and I will show you the greater and finer things in my heart. The end will come, man will destroy himself. "We didn't start the fire"

Funny how Jesus was the source of wisdom that preceded him. I have really enjoyed our conversations, they have been very inspiring. You also have a good night. "We didn't start the fire"

And here you contradict yourself. By your standard, it would seem that Jesus dishonored quite a few who came before him, such as Plato and the Buddha. ----Actually not quite. Wisdom is the source of knowledge, just because one has the knowledge, does not mean he has wisdom. You wouldnt say the river is the same as the ocean, they are two different things, but both are connected to the source, which is water. Jesus is the source of even wisdom. Wisdom follows the spirit. You, with your condescending holier than thou attitude, have no idea how wrong you are. ----If you only knew me, I dont believe you would say or even think I was holier and thou. I have been saying all along that I am guilty, that I struggle, and have weaknesses just like everyone. It is the holier than thous that I dont like, the hypcrites, the self righteous...but I am speaking the truth of the Gospel to you and that is what you dont like. You have to ask for the Holy Spirit, it is only by Jesus that it is given. Forgive me to assume that you had not receved it, but your posts are taking me that way. The Holy spirit is the Hallowed spirit...the greatest, it is only given through repentance and acceptance of Jesus dying for your sins. It has to be wanted and desired above everything else in your life, including your own life. How do I even begin to tell you what the Holy Spirit is? Its like the finest of banquets, prepared and ready just for you, your invitation is in your hands, and all you have to do is show up. Christ is a path, not a destination. The path is suitable for some, but not all. Maybe one day you'll come to understand that. ----I dont believe what you believe. "I am the way, the truth, and the life" There is a truth in existance. Why wouldnt it be love? When you receive Gods love through Christ, you see it all around, in ways I literally cant explain. There is virtually no credible evidence of a historical Jesus, and none of a resurrection. Now, we are back to this again. The evidence is in the spirit, which you either will or wont accept. "We didn't start the fire"

What difference does it make? Many things attributed to Jesus were said by others before Jesus' lifetime. Are they less true because he didn't attribute credit? ----This just proves even more what Jesus says about wisdom. That it is found everywhere. Jesus came to give us the spirit through his flesh. The wisdom which is revealed is a gift of the spirit Dismissing is not the same as dishonoring. ----Yes, I agree with you, but if you take something from someone and dismiss that it came from them, that, to me, is dishonoring them. Christ is the central deity of Christianity. He is worshiped as a god rather than a man The church has established a mythology around him, given him the power to rise from the dead, turn water into wine, walk on water, etc. Christian prayer is often offered on Jesus' name. This is worship. ----Actually, he is worshiped as both. As God who gave the spirit through man with his own love for us. When we worship, we are honoring, praising, and giving thanks to what we love. I dont have to be in church to do this. Meditation and prayer are a powerful gift for those who can appreciate them and find joy in them. You are exalting something above yourself. Jesus said many people do the same with money. Understand the spirit as the very nature of life and love, the creator. Even native american indians and different tribes in the world worship the spirit. Everything that is, ever will be, and ever has been. Jesus embodies perfect love Oh really? How so? ----Because, respectfully, you dont know the spirit. If you did, you would know that there are many religions that are religious, but not spiritual. I dont say I am in a religion, because it doesnt sound right. It doesnt sound right, because I also have seen the definition of religion that is exposed on TV and in many different denominations ect...Rememember, that our perceptions are different, when I say spirit, I dont believe you have that perception. But, when I say religion, that perception (which is not the peception of the spirit) is the one that you have. I wasnt being argumetative when I said its obscured a bit, but there was no other way to say it. Many people bypass that seeking God part altogether, and go straight to seeking Truth. Different strokes for different folks. Anyone who believes there is but one path to truth hasn't found it yet. ----Understandable. But, paths lead to their destinations. There are many paths to the truth, but only one truth. Now, if we disagree on what truth is, then we disagree. Of course I believe the truth is the love of God in Jesus, I dont know what you believe is truth. So I take it that means you'll lie to me unless I change my question's wording from asking about religion to asking about spirit? ----I dont see anyone lying to you, its just a little hard for you to understand without having been born again. There is a difference between religion and spirit. We are on the crest of one of the greatest problems in relgion and man...hypocrisy and self righteousness. This is one of the greatest topics of the teachings of Jesus, its discernment and understanding goes beyond this little thread. Forgive me, but Im getting tired, I may be able to elaborate more tomorrow. While I consider doing so, how about defining spirit for me, so I know precisely what you mean by the word. Can you do that? ----the spirit is life beyond what is seen. Love is the giver of that life. I can't say anyone has done ever done that for me. ----Jesus did. "We didn't start the fire"

What is so imaginary about love? "We didn't start the fire"

My guess is that rynodigsmusic would take his child to the doctor if the child was sick, rather than relying on only prayer, and that is how his beliefs are different from that family's beliefs.(???) Yes, I would take advantage of everything here. I believe that we are all given desires. Some are given desires with gifts to sustain and accomplish the goals of those desires. God is in control of everything. Everything in the universe is of the universe, we are in the universe, therefore, whatever wisdom is within the universe, it would only be natural for us to have a connection of some sort with it. It wasnt until Jesus, that I found that connection. I believe it is love. While I understand this may be a new concept for many people, my desire, which I thank God for daily, is in the spirit. This means that just by the natural progression of my life, people will hear the desire I keep within. I am no more important than anything. My desire found the Gospel and this is what I know. Others' desires are elsewhere (they could be also in the Gospel), but generally if one has a passion or desire for one thing it is sort of hard to be just as passionate about another. So we focus on what we love, where our passion and desire is. There are those who have a passion for science and medicine, those who have a passion for law enforcement and justice, and yes, those who have a passion for evil (in many different ways) It is clear that the balance has all of this under control. What seems true to me, is that love is the eternal balance of all that is good and evil. Since we all seem to have an internal "good is better" thing, it makes me believe that what we find connection with also believes good is better, but without evil there would be no good. There has to be a balance. What I have found is that evil is very deceptive, thats how it operates, but, that the balance of love also loves evil in ways that we will most likely not understand until we are in the next life. Our desires were given to us by love, that is why love is sought so much. If we try to fill the hunger in love with what is wrong, the balance warns us, either we listen or we do not. But the balance is still in control, in ways that we are very unfamiliar with. In ways that go beyond the human imagination, way beyond. Knowing that, is knowing Gods will (Gods will for Christians is to believe in the one he sent), doing the right thing feels better and puts us in greater energy with what is good in the balance. Use your desires, follow them, give ear to wisdom, follow love. Love is what it is all about. Love is our connection, our strength. I have not found a stronger love than that of Jesus. The point is no one knows, not you or I, what God has in store for us. There are deep dark tragedys and sustained moments of joy and happiness in the same realm of existance. Trying to understand why is a losing quest. Learning how to accept without blame, disgust, anger, fear, hopelessness, revenge is a foundational setting of peace. There is much more power in peace than just that though. Try to get out of your mind and into the spirit of what is right, good, and loving, while doing what ever your paths desire is leading you to do. Keep an open heart and be prepared everyday for the inevitibility of the darkness. If we prepare for the inevitible, then blame will not have a foothold in our hearts when it comes. There are many things I used to blame God for, now I simply accept and trust. What right do I have to blame something so powerful and perfect? I mean really, who am I?? Sorry about the long winded response "We didn't start the fire"

Actually, man needs air to breathe more than anything. And after that, water and food, and a few other things. Without those basic needs, love won't do anyone much good. (Sorry, just being a smart-ass. ) Its ok, I thought it was funny!!! "We didn't start the fire"

If you literally follow them, then yes, they are right in front of you. Buddhists do not follow the Buddha. They seek what he sought. They did not deify him, and they do not worship him. Buddhists don't dismiss the Buddha. They simply don't worship him. ----I would like to know what your idea of worship is? Yes, many others do right. Also, many others do wrong. Often they are the same people and the same actions. ----I meant others do, right? It was a question, sorry about the missing comma. Both. That which can be used for good, can also be used for bad. ----thats exactly what I said in the last post. Perhaps, but that has zero to do with science or religion. One doesn't need religion to experience love, nor does one need an understanding of science to experience love. ----Thats understandable, but again I told you that I believe love is limitless, I know you disagree, spirituality helps us recieve more. A man has to believe in love to recieve it, he has to let it in. If you limit love, you limit the heart of the man and the love that can be recieved. Also, your understanding of "religion" is also obscured a bit. God is spirit, anyone who seeks God seeks the spirit, it is spirit that holds the truth, not religion. On the other hand, love falls short sometimes. Love didn't get us to the moon. Love doesn't cure disease. Love didn't pave the way for the internet. Science did these things. What can religion do that love cannot? ----What you need to say, is "what can the spirit do that love cannot"? Then you would see the truth, that love is spirit and the spirit is life. It always was the spirit before religion, religion never came first, but in many churches today, it seems you can find the exact opposite. When you receive the love of someone who died for you, so that you would have life to the fullest, then you can tell me if love is limited or not. True love, hungers passionately, it is never filled but always satisfied...the hunger itself is indescribably joyful. "We didn't start the fire"

Why is it so difficult? The question was not about Iraq, nor it was about German during WWII. The question was, how was what that family believed different from what you believe. Are you saying it's not possible for you to answer it without irrelevant references? I am listening to what you are saying. Probably you need to go back and check what you said yourself. ------You are allowing yourself to be decieved by your own motive. Which, is, you sincerely believe I believe that what that family did was right. No matter what I tell you, you will always believe this, until you change the motive in your heart. You sincerely believe (against everything I have already told you) that everyone who follows Jesus, is told to respond in the same way, so your perception is blind to everything that I have said. I have told you several times now, in many different posts. I have been patient with you and have clarified what I said in plain english. Please understand, you are not listening and if I continue to explain, I am only going to get more of these until your motive is satisfied by what it wants to hear. You already did it. This is a typical example of Christian deceitfulness. If you are sick, and praying to get healthy, but still die - Christians will tell you that you were putting God to test, and therefore this result is expected. However if you are sick, and praying to get healthy, and you got better - Christians will use it as example the prayer works, and therefore God exist. ------I dont know what else to say to you, if we are decieved, we are completely decieved into learning how to love one another. You must hold yourself upon a pretty high pedestal? Christians believe in the will of God. If he wants to do something, he will, if not, he wont. Forgive me, it sounds like, by what you say and how you say it, Christians are deceptive and wicked and just trying to convince everyone that the hell they live in is the right way, as we testify only to lies and things that have not actually happened to us, just so that we can seem right to everyone. Is this similar to your perception? What is so wrong with having a hope that is strengthened by a indescribable love recieved from faith in a man who gave his life for the glory of that love? So praying to get out of illness is putting God to test. Praying to have some food for your family, or to protect your family members from crime is also putting God to the test. Most other things people are praying for are also putting God to test. What do you need your God for then? Well, when you have several people (not only me!) telling you that you basically did not reply the question at all, maybe the one should guess that the reason might be not that everyone else doesn't want to listen, but because the one cannot explain it meaningfully? What do you think? -----What would you like me to say? Tell me exactly what you want me to say..... That is the only thing you are listening for anyway. "We didn't start the fire"

Sorry, but this keeps bugging me: It's not Bhudda it's Buddha. It's not bhuddaism, it's Buddhism. And, it's not bohdi tree, it's Bodhi tree. Sorry about that! I can see how that would be considered disrespectful, very sorry. "We didn't start the fire"

I would not agree with that. --Understood. I may have worded that improperly, but nonetheless, if I follow someone they are still in front of me right? Why would it be necessary? --It wouldnt be necessary to dismiss the establisher, to me it is about honor. It seems sort of wrong to take something from someone and not recognize at least their efforts and works. While, yours may exceed them, they inspired you to get there. (Im not being argumentative, just clarifying my point) I dislike such actions. I can see how that could be perceived as disliking them. --Sorry, I may have worded that improperly as well. It is wrong for me to assume you dont like the man, just because you dont like what he is saying. But, you would agree that many others do right? No, I think "verbal assault" more accurately described how I perceive it. --Wow, that is a pretty stong testiment to your perception isnt it? Either that, or you have met some very bold Christians. Not at all. But when someone makes a claim for which there is scientific evidence to the contrary, I have no problem bringing up that evidence. --Of course you dont! On the other hand, what we need more of is science, so if I inadvertently motivate someone to study science, then all the better. --Science is responsible for the atom bomb right? Many bilogical chemicals used in war? The very thing you believe we need more of is also responsible for holding the destruction of the world in the hand of man. I think we will both concede that their are scientists with evil motivation as well as religions with evil motivation. There are scientists with good motivation and religions with good motivations. There is a need not just for science, but for spirituality as well. Even if science finds the answers to what it is looking for, there will always be a need to keep its motives good. Man needs love more than anything. "We didn't start the fire"

There clearly is a difference in the spiritual foundation of both, as well there would be. Yet the fundamental difference that I found with bhuddaism and Christianity is that Bhudda was enlightend to life under the bohdi tree, Jesus is life. Jesus performed miracles including raising a man from the dead, Bhudda did no miracles. Bhudda talks nothing about heaven, hell, sin, satan and Jesus does. There is something spiritualy truthful about the teachings of both, yet Jesus is the only one who was sacraficed for the sin of all mankind. There are interesting references to the "province of aisia" in the new testament. It is perfectly ok to disagree, we know this right? I dont believe that disagreements should escalate into anger, but they do, they even escalate into rage. Anyone who follows Christ is not trying to convince anyone, but to ensure that they know the way to salvation in Christ is through repentance and acceptance of the Holy Spirit. You have to understand that those who love Jesus, love him from the heart. If you have someone you love in this world and they were to give their life for you, your words would have conviction as well. If someone else came to tell you no it didnt happen like that, or no, it wasnt your loved one, it was someone else, I belieive you would at least address the errors. When people are in love, they want to share it with others, its just the nature of love. "We didn't start the fire"

Christianity is a recruiting religion; they (largely, but not absolutely) seem compelled to try to convert others to their beliefs. Christianity is not an alien concept to non-Christians. They know where the can find a Christian church of most any denomination. They know where they can find nearly any translation of the Bible they might want to read. In fact many of them have read one or more of them, partially or completely, one or more times. Generally, these non-Christians don't like being verbally assaulted with a Christian recruiting spiel. Buddhists, on the other hand, don't typically try to convert anyone. Nor do they worship a deity. They don't follow Buddha, they follow the eight-fold path he established --I understand. You like Christians less because of their "recruiting" process. You dont see it as sharing though? Are you recruiting cosmologists, or are you just sharing what you have learned? "We didn't start the fire"

The question was, how was what that family believed different from what you believe? Iraq was is completely irrelevant. --I dont know why you dont understand that. If I am a German during world war 2, does that mean that I am a nazi and fully engaged in belief of thier rhetoric? But we just got to conclusion that nobody could be sure they are following true teaching of Jesus. You said it yourself that humans can be easily deceived, and you say it yourself that you cannot test the God, and therefore there is no reliable way to test whether you follow true teaching or not. --Just by you saying this, it proves my point about deception. Stop trying to listen only to what you want to hear, listen instead to what is being said. And please stop accusing me of making the same decision as that family. QuoteSo if you allege that the family did not follow true teaching of Jesus, and therefore expecting an act of mercy from your God was "putting God to the test", it might be true as well that you do not follow true teaching of Jesus, and expecting an act of mercy from your God (like saving you from eternal life in Hell - much more significant that saving someone with medically curable disease!) will also be "putting God to the test". Quote --Jumping off a cliff and asking God to save you, is not asking for mercy, its putting him to the test. Walking past someone who is in need is not right. Jesus said the same thing. It in no way says, anywhere in the Gospel nor in the bible that we are not to take advantage of technological advancements; Jesus was a capenter, isnt a hammer an advancement in technology? Of course this means modern medicine and surgery as well. If I "pull the plug" from someones machine and pray that God would save them, that is putting God to the test. If I watch a diabetic girl die when I know that modern medicine can save her, and I pray that God would save her, I am putting God to the test, its not asking for mercy. QuoteSo basically by this you are saying that your beliefs are not different from theirsQuote --I have already explained to you and you still have not heard. You are only listening for what you want to hear. I am not "basically saying" anything. I have told you very plainly. "We didn't start the fire"

Same cop out as always when a Christian does something evil. Heard it about the Crusades, the Inquisition, about burnings at the stake in Tudor times, about the Pope and the Jews in WWII, priests and little boys, etc, etc, etc, etc. When a pattern emerges, maybe, just maybe, it's the religion at fault. Even after everything we are telling you, you still dont understand...Maybe its mans fault?? You flatter yourself. You are not telling me anything I didn't hear 50 years ago. I spent 12 years in schools where we had a daily dose of religious mumbo-jumbo. I even believed it for a while. Then I realized it was all man-made BS with not one shred of evidence to support it. Talk about a house of cards. How is it considered flattery if I just blamed myself? Have you even read the Gospel? I too was at the mercy of a man made religion, what they said, and what they taught. It takes the spirit to teach the spirit. There are many out there who just want to be preachers because they want to be exalted, of course there are many to the opposite as well, but... you should at least know what it is that you deny "We didn't start the fire"

Dude, that's all you do. I really dont think thats fair. Isnt the truth, that the motive behind what I say is not that I boast about my faith, but that I tell you about what I have learned, just as you tell me about what youve learned? I am continuously impressed at the number of people drawn in to modern day spirituality books, conveniently leaving out sin. No body, not me, not anybody wants to admit they are guilty of sin, but isnt it the truth? Arent there things you have done that you are a little remorseful about, or even greatly remorseful about? You should at least know the prophecy of the end times as Jesus says it. There will be an entire new religion that will appeal to everyone. The head of this religion will be the anti christ and his followers. The knowledge that they posess will be greater than anything you have heard yet, and they will have power and miracles to back it up. Many believers will turn away and follow this because it will be so incredibly unbelievably deceving (this could mean me as well). The spirit of this new religion is already on the hearts of many today, because it will make sense to everyone. The anti christ will put himself above all that is God and becasue of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. There will be wars and rumors of wars, and revolution will be the core motivation of this new religions followers..."Get rid of all who believe in God, especailly the Christians" Why is it easier to dislike a Christian than it is to dislike a bhuddist monk? Both could be treating you the exact same, with tenderness and compassion, but one follows Jesus, the other Bhudda. So it is not the followers you may dislike but who they follow. The anti christ is just that, anti christ. Please dont think that I am insinuating your one of them. I have only told you the prophecy and what to be aware of. And I am sorry if you believe I am boasting. "We didn't start the fire"

Of course you do. That's pretty much all you've been doing here. How do you know those parents were putting God "to the test" as you put it? Perhaps they simply have absolute belief in a church that has consistently demonized science whenever it has suited its objectives. Whether it's evolution, stem-cell research, it doesn't matter. For certain evangelicals, science has always been subordinate to faith. And you yourself reflect that view with your inane "Science will never be greater than love". Under those circumstances, it's a perfectly logical progression for these parents to assume that the science of medicine should also be subordinate to faith. I'm glad to hear you say that. It sounds like you understand that, at least in some cases, science can be more powerful than faith. In fact it is powerful enough to have saved the life of that girl. Without accepting medical science, no amount of faith would be capable of doing that. Whatever negative feelings I have (and I'd characterize them as disgust rather than hatred) are only addressed towards God in your mind. You wrongly assume that I am an atheist. However, unlike you, I don't have the need to trumpet my beliefs over and over again. And any disgust I have expressed in this thread is towards a small minority of religious people, those that believe science should be subordinate or filtered in some way according to their faith. If you need to do that, you're no better than those parents. You should know that I still believe science will never be greater than love, but that I did not read the article first before I said that. That is entirely my fault. It wasnt until you said "did you even read the article" that I realized you had something attached. I owe you an apology, I should have told you that earlier. But here we are now. I belive science definitely has its place, and I am glad there are people smarter than me who were given the desire to follow it. I do not believe that science is demonized (I could be wrong), it doesnt make sense for it to be, it has too many good purposes. What cant be denied however, is that in all its good purposes there have been those who have used it for the opposite, just like religion (here we are at that balance thing again). Am I to "assume" that you believe the making of the atom bomb was a good idea, just because you follow science? No, nor would I assume that. You accuse me of assuming that you are an atheist? I apologize if I came off as assuming that, sincerely I do. But, arent you assuming that I am one of the evil religious people just the same? While I dont agree with only using prayer to heal someone, or help them, I do strongly agree in prayers power. No one knows why God works the way he does. No one knows why tragedys happen. Have you even thought about what a tragedy is? They are so horrible and seemingly unfair on both ends. There is no "hinesight" on a tragedy, and we can all be used in one. To me it shows that there will always be things that cannot be explained. You are more than welcome to not believe in the power of faith because of this tragedy, but then it seems to me that you would be buying into exactly what the deception that was working in that family wants you to. To me, a tragedy is the work of deception and evil, allowed by the balance, but forged for the work of the dark side; a "perfect storm" of evil with casualties beyond that which is even seen or heard. "We didn't start the fire"

A tragedy is just that, a tragedy. You obviously do not listen well. I told you the reason, but you didnt want to hear that. I hope you have a change of heart one day. As expected, a cop-out response. What is it that you do not understand? I said they were decieved and led astray from what it means to follow Jesus. .... Same cop out as always when a Christian does something evil. Heard it about the Crusades, the Inquisition, about burnings at the stake in Tudor times, about the Pope and the Jews in WWII, priests and little boys, etc, etc, etc, etc. When a pattern emerges, maybe, just maybe, it's the religion at fault. Even after everything we are telling you, you still dont understand...Maybe its mans fault?? "We didn't start the fire"

A tragedy is just that, a tragedy. You obviously do not listen well. I told you the reason, but you didnt want to hear that. I hope you have a change of heart one day. As expected, a cop-out response. What is it that you do not understand? I said they were decieved and led astray from what it means to follow Jesus. I told you that just because you know someones name does not mean that you know the person. I told you that what they did was wrong and not right. I told you that reason tells me that just as I will eat the wheat from the harvest, I will take medicine from the earth. I told you that it is written, in the Gospel, not to put God to the test. I told you that not helping when you can is the same as hurting. And now I will tell you something else. In the beginning of the Gospel, satan himself tried to use Gods word against Jesus. There are people in the world right now doing the same thing. If I seem long winded to you all, it is because I am careful with my words and I want to explain so that you might understand. There are others like me as well, presenting your case. I have not called them long winded and it seems neither have you. "We didn't start the fire"

Agreed. They both have their place, and both are important, but to compare them is like comparing length to mass or color to texture. But here you compare them, immediately after acknowledging they can't be compared. "Greater than" implies comparison.

A tragedy is just that, a tragedy. You obviously do not listen well. I told you the reason, but you didnt want to hear that. I hope you have a change of heart one day. "We didn't start the fire"

QuoteMy response was to your statement about being against the Gospel despite not having read it. It really doesn't matter if a person has read it or not. What Jesus has to say doesn't matter either if it's the credibility of the Bible that's being questioned. The Bible won't prove that God exists, and it doesn't even provide adequate evidence that Christianity is THE right path.Quote The right path is righteousness. To do the right thing all the time. I believe we have all stepped off this path dont you? If we believe ourselves to be righteous, then I believe we decieve ourselves. God gave us the teacher of righteousness (the light) as well as the atonement for our sin (guilt). Of course righteousness is taught elsewhere, but what about the atonement for sin? Who pays the price for our sin? Im sorry, I believe that Jesus is THE right path. That doesnt mean that others are on the wrong path. They are just on theirs. I believe if we follow our hearts, they will lead us. Is it such a bad thing to know that someone died and took the punishment for your sin? It is important to read the Gospel, I mean seriously, it takes 2-3 hrs to read one. Imagine a world where everyone wants the best for one another. If I want whats best for you, and you want whats best for me, then we would have everything we ever wanted. Many people believe they know what following Jesus is all about, just because they think they know Christianity. Christianity is about spirit, the church is meant to be a collection of those who follow Jesus and who want to learn righteousness. It was never supposed to be about passing the offering plate, communion, or getting up every sunday to go. The church does not come before the spirit, the spirit comes before the church. It is I speak the whole truth to you, you speak the whole truth to me, right down to what shames us most, and together we love one another deeply with the connection that Jesus died to give us. "We didn't start the fire"

Some are. Case in point. Isn't it just wonderful those of you who hold faith higher than science? Science will never be greater than love. Did you even read that link? That poor girl died for the sole reason that her parents thought just the way you do. Go ahead, explain to us how they did the right thing. Show us how what they did was an expression of "love". Just as the taste of apples have nothing to do with yellow, how does this have anything to do with love? Meaning, how do you conclude that I think that way just because I said science will never be greater than love. You can have faith in things besides love and truth. These times are getting so bad, they are going to get much worse, and because of things like this happening, many people will begin to hate God and not the spirit of evil which uses deceptions just like this. These people believed their faith to be greater than what it was. Deception. What deception are you talking about? Like you, they put faith in Jesus. Like you, they read the Gospel. And like you, they believed that faith was more important than science. If you somehow feel they are different from you, you'll have to be more specific in what that difference is. One characteristic of the fruit of the spirit is humbleness. Only God knows those who have great faith. If I walk around believing myself to have great faith, then I walk around with pride and i dont even know it. Look.... I asked you a simple question. You answer with a long-winded sermon and completely ignored my question. I'll ask again: How was what that family believed different from what you believe? If you once again show you need to avoid answering that question, I will just have to assume you have the same set of beliefs. You need to slow down, take a breath, and listen. I would not say that you believed in the Iraq war just because you are American. Those who do things in the name of others do not necessarily know the person. There are many people in the Church that are being led astray from the true teachings of Jesus. This was already prophesied by Jesus himself 2000 yrs ago. "23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time" These people believed their faith to be greater than it was. I dont walk around and boast about my faith in God, not in my attitude, nor in my words, and I will not put God to the test. Humans have a great sense of reasoning, it has to do with the way we balance the knowledge of good and evil within us. It is not right, nor was it ever right to watch someone die when you can help them. But, you arent listening are you? You still believe that I am that family? I could get more upset about this, is that what your waiting for? Please stop accusing me for thier mistake. I have also heard that Christians are responsible for the crusades as well. Until any of you read the Gospel, you will never know who Jesus is, or what he came for. Whether you like it or not there is a spiritual war going on, what you cannot discern in your mind will be only discerned by the spirit, I just hope you are listening to the right voice. Hatred toward God is already growing... "We didn't start the fire"

Listen to what Jesus says... "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' 35But wisdom is proved right by all her children." Whereever you find wisdom Linz it will be in the flow of love. If the wisdom you find makes sense to you, bump it with the Gospel and just see if the two agree. Of course your right, if I grew up in those areas, I would most likely follow that path. I can write more about this tomorrow so that you have a firm understanding of what the Gospel says about others being saved. It does not say that only Christians will be saved, but that salvation is only found in Jesus. There is a difference. I will explain more tomorrow about this. Bill and I have had several conversations about this as well. Wisdom follows goodness and righteousness, goodness and righteousness follow love. Love is the leader of true wisdom. Everyones soul is in Gods hands. Even the Gospel says the same thing. Its all about love, deep love from the heart. Understanding that we are loved so much, despite all our faults and mistakes. Seeing our sin, our weaknesses ect... is the first step to truth. I believe narcotics anonomous even speaks of the power of truth over denial? I know AA does. "We didn't start the fire"

Maybe you're the one who has been deceived already. You cannot prove otherwise, since you cannot test your God, and your own perception/opinion could obviously be wrong (since you said that "the very nature of deception is that you will not know you are being decieved"). So how could you be sure you are not? That is why I said that all who preach the Gospel should fear this. Also everyone in Jesus shoud speak the truth from their heart. I am guilty of sin, I am not good, I have many weaknesses. What can you prove me guilty of if I am already telling you I am guilty? I trust the grace of God in Jesus, I put all my life in his hands. What is it that you want from me? You do realize that you are operating in the very spirit that was against Jesus. Your accusing me, rejecting me, and questioning not me, but what the Gospel says. It is not me you are against, it is the Gospel. Yet have you even read it? "We didn't start the fire"