rynodigsmusic

Your not going to like what I have to say. Jesus brought the Gospel of God. This condemns everyone in their sin...everyone. He specifically said many many times that all must repent or perish, this is the final judgement on sin, it literally is life and death. There are those who will not repent, those are the ones who do not belong to God, because they dont live by the truth. All those unrepentant hearts will not find life and instead will find condemnation and judgement. Those who believe Jesus is the savior, have already recieved their judgement and condemnation, but have been set free by grace (Gods immeasurable love) and Truth. This is the salvation of God, the peace of reconciliation. What isnt as obvious at the time is the actual life that is recieved. It is clearly undeniable...its like the heart is filled with poetry. The life brings with it a desire to sustain and persevere into the fullness of that life, which is the Righteousness of God. That was never attainable without his love. Jesus gave us that on the cross. The work of the Cross is spectacular in so many ways...Victory sums it up quite nicley Jesus demanded that his disciples not kill, instead told us that we would be killed becasue we stand with him. How do I feel about it? It is wrong because I dont have the right. It is like an evil man killing an evil man. You have to see what the world is first. Picture a raging fire. Now a stream of water comes to put it out, only what the stream touches is turned to steam and sent out of the fire. Your right. He said nothing about homosexuality, in fact, the new testament only mentions it one time in Romans. I agree with Paul. He made a judgement and said that those who abandon natural relationships for unatural relationships recieved in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. There is something powerful about the conscience that cant be denied. When our conscience says this isnt right, and we deny it, we recieve guilt. All those who live for Jesus, desire his righteousness, the guilt is seen not as bad, but as extrememly good...but that is only becasue through repentance and grace that guilt is removed, and through that, a desire is found (that I didnt see before) to continue to pursue the Righteousness of God as the greatest gift and not as a burden as it appears to look like from those who have not felt the life in it. Dont give up on me. I do write alot, but I promise I will answer your questions. Jesus challenged hypocrisy, he fulfilled the law with his own blood, and in doing so established a new law...love one another as I have loved you. This did my no means negate the only way to Salvation in him is through repentance and acceptance of his blood for our sin "We didn't start the fire"

Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different? I thought I already did? It does not appear so. "The Gospel is about truth, its about speaking the entire truth to God. The entire truth will find your guilt and condemnation." "The only one who isnt a hypocrite is the one who admits he is one" If one speaks the entire truth to God, he will see his need for repentance, and through repentance, grace will guide. Grace does not guide all those who "know" the Gospel, if guides those who are truly humble and contrite. I have been into few churches where these qualities of the spirit are practiced. In a real church, Leaders should be servants and the most humble of all. Do you see this? I dont. Yet, they have the Gospel right there in front of them. I have said and will continue to say, that we are all evil, none of us are good, if we are not on guard and aware of hypocrisy, then we will be deiceved by it...Jesus himself told the disciples to "be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy" No one, not me, not Peter, not even you can escape the power of hypocrisy, its very nature is unseen to us. It is the condition of the heart which reveals it. "We didn't start the fire"

I believe I put everyone on the hook, and put myself on more of it for my hypocrisy "We didn't start the fire"

Sometimes you cant see yourself clearly unless your reflected in the eyes of others. Now, I see myself more clearly in this regard (the morality of homosexuality). I have been praying for quite some time on this very topic. It is a divider between those who live for God and those who dont, and though you may not see it in my posts concerning this matter, I care deeply about both. I make it a point usually to not get involved with politics and the way the world is inevitably going, but this very topic has to do with the heart more than anything, so I cant really ignore it. I am a hypocrite. I dont believe that homosexuality is immoral. I am actually quite liberal in my ideas and thoughts, more liberal than most of you might imagine. I am many things that I dont like and fewer things I do. However, I dont exist anymore, I live for Jesus and it is what Jesus leads me to do that I desire to do. I seek the Righteousness of God with all my heart, and that is where I found this truth in regards to the immorality of homosexuality. When it comes to the Righteousness of God, homosexuality is no more immoral than lying, in fact, lying would be a greater offense to God. Which is exactly what I was doing by telling you all that I personally believe homosexuality to be immoral, when that is far from the truth. I cant speak for God, Jesus does that. For me, my sole desire is to attain to the fullness of the Righteousness of God, and it is foolish for me to think that others would find the same joys that I have found in that. How fast I can forget that it is purely a gift, in which I did nothing to deserve and everything to not deserve. Fighting for the Righteousness of God goes against the Righteousness of God, as who has that right but Jesus? You have to understand that people who fear God, Fear him deeply as that alone is a gift as well, inspired by God himself...we dont want to be seperated from him again. It would be like you saying something against your own child to the world, we dont want to hurt what loves us most...this goes beyond the fear of hell. There is a sensativity to the spirit, and when we seek peace, it is clear when that sensativity is disturbed. I believe Jesus considered that disturbance to be a "prison". With everything that I know about darkness, slavery, and none of us being good, calling myself a hypocrite many times, I cant believe I let myself be decieved by the very thing I preach most against. I owe each and every one of you an apology, especially the homosexuals who were surely offended by my hypocritical and offensive opinions. I hope you will forgive me for my blindness in this regard. I am sure many of you will request scripture, and I can definityely do that, but it will take some time. "We didn't start the fire"

Sure. I wouldn't want to trade my life for that of a paramecium. That's hardly relevant to my comment about your misuse of the terms logic and reason. Again, that is the point, your perception would see that as a misuse of logic and reason. "We didn't start the fire"

Incorrect. Philosophy, which literally means "love of wisdom" (or "love of knowledge"), at its very foundation is about obtaining knowledge for the sake of knowledge. >>>>Im sorry about that. I took a philosophy class at one point and the entire class was around one question.."Is it right becasue God says its right, or is it right because it is right?" I believe it was about the moral aspect of philosophy. But it is interesting to me that it is called the love of wisdom. Again, sorry about that. God has no place in secular government. >>>>Yes and I find it very interesting that this nations principles were founded on God. Somehow, now we have the right to just go ahead and take God out. I just hope that we are able to see that we are the cause of the future destructions instead of harboring all the blame towards God. I still believe strongly that man is evil and God is good. "We didn't start the fire"

*shaking head* You just don't get it do you? It doesn't matter what ~I~ believe, or what ~you~ believe to be right and wrong. What matters is that people have the same rights to make choices in their private lives! Do you really think this is a matter of me not getting that whatever people do in their own homes is private? This is about influence and it is not meant to spark a heated debate, but to inspire people to at least think about things and how they affect others. What do you think about influence? Not what does it mean in regards to homosexuality, but what you think about what it is and how it operates? "We didn't start the fire"

Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different? I thought I already did? I dont believe it is considered arrogance to speak what Jesus spoke. If you believe anything I have said is not what the Gospel says, then please let me know. I told you before, I seek humility and humbleness. When I am wrong, I will tell you. "We didn't start the fire"

Lets hope not, thats really all we can do anyway. Good conversation though...I have to go now. "We didn't start the fire"

Giving homosexuals the right to marry (ie more freedom) is a step along the way to losing all our freedoms? Please explain, cuz I'm confused. Holding the law higher than morality gives no limit to what the law can do. As our liberal minds evolve, it becomes acceptable (by strong conviction) for almost anything. So acceptable that those who do believe some things just arent right (like the 15 yr old) are actualy persecuted against. I was only making a point that the evolving mind of the liberal (do what you want as long as it doesnt hurt others) will inevitably be in a position (due to influence) to accept what is right by the law and not by what they truly believe to be as right. Im saying that the law will govern your own morality....Never been caught up in the injustices of the judicial system before? The more laws we have, because we keep dodging the core issues of morality, the more we are governed by. Nothing can be done about this. My opinion counts for absolutely nothing...Im sure you disagree. "We didn't start the fire"

No offense Bill, but I know your a liberal Remember, your a peacemaker! I dont believe that people should automatically assume that they are not liked because someone doesnt like something they do. This happens unfortunately. Nevertheless, by the direction the liberal thought is going, maybe even you would change your mind to the 15yr old in time? Forgive me, but by your logic this is what I see and aparently the law will do what the law wants to do, not only because thats what it does, but because the liberal thought allows it to do it. Like the movie the matrix, we are slowly giving our society over to something beyond ourselves. Soon, (and it may not happen in your lifetime), the law will take away all of our freedoms. Just look at the justice system, it is riddled with action against injustice. It wont really have an impact in ones life, until he is up against it. At that time one should have something else that the deciever holds higher than God...Money. "We didn't start the fire"

So when Im angry or in a bad mood during the wrong time of year, its ok for me to rob someone? But, liberal thinking says, maybe if I am broke, homeless, desperate, hungry? The question shouldnt be is it right sometimes, the question should be is it right? And that should be the model. Now whether or not people follow the model, that is entirely something else. I know morality is a huge, long-standing issue, but fundamentally the answer should be yes or no. As long as that is the answer, then of course, we are all guilty. Next they will say, as will all liberals, that a 15 yr old is considered old enough for sex, stripping any chance that she might have of holding and keeping something sacred for herself, due to the influence of a liberal society. This is the direction we are going with this "as long as its not hurting anyone" philosophy. "We didn't start the fire"

What Lindsey said was that perception of morality wasn't absolute. How do you translate that into "you dont think that laws are founded on morality?" Good point. I believe I missed that. This all came about because several people now have stated that the government has nothing to do with morality. That just sounds a bit strange to me. I did, however misinterpret Lindsey. Sorry about that. "We didn't start the fire"

Indeed. Whose morality? Whomever happens to be in charge. It is FOUNDED upon morality, but not necessarily reflective. At times, we all have our own personal morals and ethics challenged. But I'll put it to you this way - the only morals you can enforce are your own. If you believe oral sex to be immoral, don't practice it. If you believe that alcohol is the work of the devil, don't drink. So long as another person is not impinging on you or on others, then what is the problem? So you dont think that there is such a thing as influence? The choices you make (which are not harmful to anyone) do affect others whether we like it or not. Its just the truth. The very foundation of philosophy is mans morality vs Gods morality. Man represents evil, God represents good. Evil works in deception, so many who believe they are doing the good and right thing are buying into the lie and they dont even know it. That being said. I dont believe drinking is a sin. I dont drink anymore, but I dont think it is wrong either. I do think there is a point when drinking becomes addictive and dangerous, and from that moment, all sorts of consequences can and do take root. "We didn't start the fire"

Of course your right. So, you dont think that laws are founded on morality? Mind you now, this is the the basis of Philosophy, and I dont know if I my work will allow me to engage in a year long debate

This made me think of a billboard on the PA turnpike. It says "Jesus, Accept or Reject". I don't see it as that clear cut. I agree, that some of the teachings of the Bible are truly good ones, how to live in peace, get along, help others, the basics of how to live a good life. Teachings that are similar to virtually every philosophical and religous doctrine. I have tried very hard in my life to be a good Christian, that is how I was raised. But I never really felt it in my heart, I don't feel that Jesus is real and there and part of me, no matter how open I was and how badly I wanted to believe in that kind of truth. Is that rejection of Jesus that I walked away from the Christian church because I could no longer bear the hypocrisy of pretending to believe something that just never really fit with me? I don't feel that I've rejected anything, only accepted the fact that I am human, I have to do the best I can in this life with the tools that I have and the nature of my spirit. That's exactly what I am doing, and I've found so much more peace and joy on this path than I've ever known before. As a result I'm better equipped to give to and care for others. Jesus is a part of you because you know he died for you. He died so that you could find life beyond that of being enslaved by sin. If the church has lead you out of the love that is found in that, then that of course is the churches fault. Find a good and true friend in this world, someone you can tell anything to and who will love you regardless. That is priceless. Now, understand that friend died for you because he loved you so much. Now understand that was God. "We didn't start the fire"

Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. You havent listened to anything that I have said, instead your only listening for ways to prove me wrong. Did you even read the last post in "an atheist speaks"? Or did you just consider me to be shifty in my assertions and now are convinced more than ever that I am ridiculous in thought? You seem set on calling me on everything that I have said to the extent of even changing my intent. Nevertheless...The Gospel is about truth, its about speaking the entire truth to God. The entire truth will find your guilt and condemnation. Both are covered by the blood of Jesus. I wont be fully honest with you, because I dont want to be ridiculed. I will however be fully honest with God. I have said the only one who isnt a hypocrite is the one who says he is one. I am guilty, I am not innocent, I am dark, I am a sinner, I am not good, and Im shallow in thought, I fall deathly short of the Righteousness of God, and I dont know anything. I seek humbleness. I am in constant remorse, which is joyful in ways that you wont understand until you learn you need to be forgiven. The very combination of remorse and forgiveness is grace. I wouldnt assume that you believe me to always have been this way, its not your style. I was an advocate for darkness in ways that would definitely suprise you "We didn't start the fire"

Then it's not logic and reason. Even simpler. Do you believe there is life greater than just being alive? I believe it is logical to believe there is, as it seems to be the pursuit of most. The pursuit of happiness?? There is reason all throughout that process, but ther are those who do not see it. "We didn't start the fire"

What I've been saying is that the morality issue should be moot. We're talking about the government here. The government should stick to the affairs of the government. I know very little about the law, but I still believe the core of law is founded on morality. "We didn't start the fire"

With what do you disagree? Are you saying you believe that being in close proximity with homosexuals can turn people gay? Or do you think it's bad to teach children tolerance and acceptance of those not like themselves? >>>>Its about the influence. No, I dont think that being around homosexuals is going to turn someone gay, but influence inspires more thoughts than people realize. I guess you really havent met anyone who has found shame in themselves in regards to homosexual "encounters"? You claim that you don't judge, yet you judge homosexuality to be immoral. Which is it? You can't judge and also claim not to judge. >>>>I dont judge the decisions they make/made, but I still believe it is right to keep what is right, right. I believe its everyones God-given right to make a judgement. If you find making a judgement, the same as being the judge of someone, then you dont see the difference. If you believe making a judgement is being the judge of someone, then you are doing the same thing by what you believe to be right. I cant help but think that this is more a personal issue with you and I, and Im sorry about that. Don't creationists believe that God is behind their genetics, and placed kids in their environment? >>>>Yeah, I guess an evolutionist would think that way>>>You and I simply dont agree with what we believe to be moral and immoral. My stance is that our model of morality shouldnt involve homosexuality, however, I dont think it should seperate people at the heart level. "We didn't start the fire"

Interesting claim considering you conveniently didn't answer my questions pertaining to god and homosexuality. >>>>Ill get to that, but give me some time, I dont even remember what you asked. >>>>I dont believe it is a civil rights issue, because it crosses into morality. Many dont believe that it is a moral issue at all. This is the core difference. Instead, they believe it is morally not right to restrict civil liberties based on sexual orientation. So, the core moral issue is hidden underneath a civil issue. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. What law was passed? >>>>No I dont know what law was passed. That is why I said earlier that I have overstepped my boundaries. I make it a point usually to not get involved with politics. Im a moral person, and my morals are bred from the righteousness of Jesus. Just as I feel it is morally wrong to be a religious fundamentalist, but I don't believe that in itself justifies prison sentences. >>>>Yes, I agree. I have to call bullshit. I've lived in a few cities with higher than average GLBT populations, as well as being raised in the belt buckle of the bible belt. If anything, the diversity is good for kids. Being around gays doesn't make people gay any more than being around cancer victims causes cancer. >>>>Strongly disagree. So basically, you understand and acknowledge that being gay is not a choice (i.e. God made gay people gay, from a creationist perspective). >>>>Of course. The question that I originally asked was sincere to everyone, but what I found is exactly what I said, Only the person who is gay knows the answer to whether or not it is a choice. It is no different from an addict. They dont wish they were that way, but it seems they made descisions back down the way...descisions that I dont judge.....that led them down that path. I dont believe God made anyone an addict, but we have seen that people are influenced both genetically and by their enviornment. It shows that the decisions we make in life do not only affect us. But again, I am open to this coversation and fully aware that I dont have the answers. I understand some will have opposite opinions, that is perfectly ok, but still, the core issure, is the morality of homosexual marriages and whether we believe it is right to allow it. It is not a morality issue of having the same civil liberties, though that is exactly how people are taking it. "We didn't start the fire"

Ah, I see now. If one doesn't believe in the Christian moral, then he/she is ignorant and naive. Got to give it to Jesus. He sure knew how to teach his students to be egocentric! I would be very interested to see what you believe to be right and wrong. I truly am sorry if you believe I am coming off as egocentric. "We didn't start the fire"

I agree with you. I dont believe anyone should be discriminated against ever. But this is a question of whether the courts decided that it is morally right, again, they hid it under the civil rights category. I understand how people could not see how it harms others around them, but it does. We are sending a message loud and clear to not only the world, but to our children as well, and their childrens children, that same sex marriages is ok. People truly believe that homosexual marriages is on the same plane as interacial marriages. "We didn't start the fire"

Laws were created to PROTECT the freedom of choice. Again, the government has no role in deciding morality. They shouldnt be completely ignorant or naive to them though. "We didn't start the fire"

"We didn't start the fire"