rynodigsmusic

And in today's world, preaching against birth control seems pretty irresponsible to me. I agree. "We didn't start the fire"

If you truly believe the things you've said here, you'd recognize that that man died to protect the freedom of his countrymen to protest their government. That's what America is about. If the right of the people to speak out is taken away, then that soldier, and the many thousands before him, have died in vain. - Dan G Thats very well put. Many of them believe they are making a country for Iraq, that they are actually helping others, which is what America is also about. Whether or not this is true, really only time and Iraq will tell, but this is what many of the soldiers believe in thier hearts. Mostly, their just doing their duty for the Country and serving those next to them. I said at the beginning of all this, that my perspective is a little different, I shouldnt have gotten involved. "We didn't start the fire"

Im sorry, I see caskets taken off planes all the time here with flags draped over them, so my perspective is a little different. There is a price for freedom whether we protest or not, and many have paid that with their own lives. So which one is Patriotic - defending freedom, or "my country, right or wrong"? Can't have it both ways. Look. I just watched another one come off tonight. Im really not in the mood to answer these questions. All you want my opinion for is to argue it so that yours will look brighter. I concede. "We didn't start the fire"

You appear to have an extremely poor understanding of the value of civil protest in a free democratic society. I think it is clear that I dont hold understanding as high as I do the heart, but I have an opinion, I am sorry if they are not given with as much understanding as your own. "We didn't start the fire"

So how do you feel about all the young repubican patirots out there that support this war and are crazy brave with every drop of blood of all those young soldiers.. but find 100 different excuses why its not them out there Surely you know the answer to that. "We didn't start the fire"

I am being serious... Were you ever in prison or were you ever addicted to heroin, coke, alcohol, etc.? Just curious about your statement "Everything I used to love was sin..." I stayed away from heroin. I was never caught for anything that I did, so I was never in prison. I am an alchoholic (sober 2yrs). Of course I was a pothead, (I didnt even like that word before)... Sexually, I was a wreck...if you dont mind, Ill just leave it at that. I did most of the rave drugs (surely you know what I mean)...Of course I could go on, but I think you get the point? These things of course were only the expression of an inner problem. When the soul cries out, we dont always recognize it (some never do). But when it cries out, it is looking for satisfaction, we try to satisfy it by doing things that give us pleasure. If it were that easy, I think we'd have alot more addicts than we do! You may or may not agree, but for me it was revealled that the soul was not designed to be satisfied by the flesh, but by the spirit. As it were, I believe my inner problem was fear based. It wasnt the fear of death, but the fear of not living life to the fullest. I know many dont want to hear this, but Jesus led me to repentance and the Holy Spirit, and within a week, I was clean, sober, and enlightened beyond words... I mean literally, like life just showed me its beauty for the first time in a long time. Its unexplainable and even if I could explain it, it wouldnt penetrate, it has to be revealled from within. I feel as if any sinful thoughts come near me that they jepordize everything I truly love. The "actions" are only an expression of the thoughts, believe it or not, the thoughts alone are sin. Its not about do this and youll go to hell, its about recieving what you really want in life. It literally is, sin is death, and to be without sin is life. I hope you feel the sincerity. "We didn't start the fire"

Yes of course your right...and many many others who have fought and died for their country. I do see how you were using the term...Its just so frustrating to me that people do not know what is really going on with our soldiers. How dare we sit here and discuss what true patriotism is when there are young boys still spilling thier blood today over a war many of them dont agree with, BUT MANY OF THEM DO. For all you war protesters, I hope you at least recognize that your values (as you have been telling me all along) are not necessarily reflective of others. You ask who decides what is right and wrong, legal and illegal and you say your own government, then you criticise your own government for the mistakes they make, protesting a war that inevitably happened and somehow forgetting that your freedoms were gifts, whether you agree with how they were given or not....I dont even want to get started. This is ridiculous.. Disagree or Agree with the war, but dont pat yourselves on the back because you consider a protestor to be more patriotic than the soldier who serves. Rather why dont you fly into Iraq and Afghanistan and tell the soldiers yourselves. Do you think that they dont know all these things you are talking about? And yet, they serve still. Its no wonder they dont feel appreciated enough, they dont believe when we tell them they are, because of discussions like these. "We didn't start the fire"

Nor are those with the "My country, right or wrong" attitude patriotic because they always support their country. Im sorry, I see caskets taken off planes all the time here with flags draped over them, so my perspective is a little different. There is a price for freedom whether we protest or not, and many have paid that with their own lives. "We didn't start the fire"

So what you have said in a roundabout way is that your soul is just part of your imagination? If you believe that the most sacred part of your being is just "a part of your imagination", then no one can show you otherwise. If your life is not sacred to you, then you would believe it is your imagination. As it is, our life is the greatest gift we can give someone. There is no greater love than when a freind gives his life for you. This love exists in this universe and it is beyond even the imagination. You do have an existance without the flesh, when it is not satisfied, you will know. "We didn't start the fire"

Now, I know I couldnt have said that better. Im still having trouble finding my soul, can you tell me where it is located? once i've located it then how do i determin if its condition is "desperate". So is there evidence to support the "soul" theory? (please no bible quotes *yawn*)... real evidence, peer reviewed and all... The closest I can get to describing the soul is your own personal, unique, and sacred perception of how the world is exposed to you. How you see everything, both with your own eyes and with your own heart. Some see a plant, others see a rose, both will dissapear in time. No evidence whatsoever...but if you find yours, you will get closer to your real connection with the universe. Try to picture your whole being as a drop of water existing as one with a beautiful lake. So what you have said in a roundabout way is that your soul is just part of your imagination? Yes thats it. "We didn't start the fire"

Not at all. If homosexual sex involves anal sed and that is why so many straight men have an issue with it.. why do so many of the same men seem to want to have anal sex with their wives and girlfriends... and seem to feel that is ok.. If the hershey highway is such an abomination to so many christians.. why do so many of those same "good christians" feel the same acts are ok for them in their heterosexual relationships? Believe me, I got your point! The point of the post was to compare homosexuality with lying when it comes to seeking the Righteousness of God. If you are guilty of lying, you are guilty of everything else. You have to understand, in sin there is death, in Righteousness there is life. I cannot express the beauiful life in Righteousness enough in a way that would make you see how much better it is than sin. Everything I used to love was sin, now everythng I love is Righteousness, and I absolutely hate sin...and I was definitely not a guy who thought I would ever hate sin. You wont believe this, and you surely wont take my word for it, but what Jesus offers is a like perfect diamond, like the greatest thing you could ever imagine, ever. Its offered, not forced, its a gift not a burden, everything you think it is in your mind, it is not. It is surely the greatest suprise I have ever had...dont know what else to say to you, sorry. "We didn't start the fire"

Now, I know I couldnt have said that better. Im still having trouble finding my soul, can you tell me where it is located? once i've located it then how do i determin if its condition is "desperate". So is there evidence to support the "soul" theory? (please no bible quotes *yawn*)... real evidence, peer reviewed and all... The closest I can get to describing the soul is your own personal, unique, and sacred perception of how the world is exposed to you. How you see everything, both with your own eyes and with your own heart. Some see a plant, others see a rose, both will dissapear in time. No evidence whatsoever...but if you find yours, you will get closer to your real connection with the universe. Try to picture your whole being as a drop of water existing as one with a beautiful lake. "We didn't start the fire"

So what do you call a good ole "straight boy" who wants to have butt secks with a woman..... if two guys are going down the hershey highway and that is an abominable sin that you hate... how is that different for those who wish to traverse the same highway with a woman Im sorry, I think you might have misunderstood the original post. "We didn't start the fire"

Now, I know I couldnt have said that better. "We didn't start the fire"

Higher than our base desires to merely eat and reproduce. What doesn't it explain satisfactorily? Its gonna take me some more time to research your clickys, but thank you for your time and response. The connection. "We didn't start the fire"

"So who are the real Patriots today"Quote You dont have to look any further that the ones sacrificing thier lives and thier freedoms for ours. A Patriot serves the country and honors it above themselves, regardless of its motive. "We didn't start the fire"

In some cases, yes … and in some cases, we are just beginning to appreciate how deeply biological are the origins of traits like altruism and cooperation. It's nature & nurture. The convention of individual liberty and property rights -- which I'm willing to bet you treasure as much as I -- originate from Enlightenment ideals, e.g., John Locke. The Code of Federal Regulations has lots of parts that are non-instinctive. The disparate fields of molecular biology, genetics, sociobiology, philosophy, evolutionary psychology, & economic game theory are exploring the biological basis for some "higher' traits. Just a few examples: Moral (or usually expressed as the positivist “cooperative behavior”) has been shown to be an evolutionary trait that benefits human survival, e.g., “the Grandmother (& Grandfather) Hypothesis.” Reciprocal Altruism, which traces its citation lineage to Darwin. Ethical decisions to go to war and other conflict resolution explained through game theory. VR/Marg I think I got most of this, forgive me for not understanding it all. But I like the part about the "higher traits"...Higher than whom, than us? Just a thought. It seems to me that we all sort of share an idea of goodness; Heaven is that place to many people, even to those who dont believe in anything. Of course I believe Jesus is right, he says that Heaven is within us. The morality studies in a philosophy class I took years ago, submitted that the basis for the study of morality was based on this question.."Is it right because God says its right(being heaven within us), or is it right because it is right"? This is just me, but I would argue against the evolutionary idea of self preservation, of course it makes sense, to not kill one another so that we dont kill each other off, but it just doesnt explain enough, but again, thats just me. Its gonna take me some more time to research your clickys, but thank you for your time and response. "We didn't start the fire"

So those without one, or with one that is way out of wack could be the serial killers of innocent children? Seems like if we know what it is, we should be able to get rid of serial killers huh? Most serial killers are self-proclaimed geniuses. Does anyone else see more and more that we could be headed into the society in "A Brave New World"? "We didn't start the fire"

I would posit that the origin of law -- including many of the laws related to marriage -- was in commerce. The first civilization arose in Mesopotamia. Even before Hammurabi’s Code, there were older Sumerian laws. The first of which, along with the oldest cuneiform, dealt with disputes over stuff (crops and animals). In American law, the same things are not considered moral or immoral as in say, Saudi Arabia, where you can be punished by death for commiting acts of homosexuality. I assume that is not the 'moral code' which you want to emulate. I most certainly don't. VR/Marg Of course not. Do you think that there is something beyond instinct which inspires our thoughts of right and wrong? This is not a loaded question. I want your opinion. "We didn't start the fire"

Were they? Certainly, this nation-state, as established by the Constitution of the united States of America was not founded on god or religion. I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth. Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to William Short Fix Reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason than of blindfolded fear. ... Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences. If it end in a belief that there is no God, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others which it will procure for you. Jefferson, in a letter to his nephew, Peter Carr (Jefferson's Works, Vol. ii., p. 217) Read the Bible as you would Livy or Tacitus. For example, in the book of Joshua we are told the sun stood still for several hours. Were we to read that fact in Livy or Tacitus we should class it with their showers of blood, speaking of their statues, beasts, etc. But it is said that the writer of that book was inspired. Examine, therefore, candidly, what evidence there is of his having been inspired. The pretension is entitled to your inquiry, because millions believe it. On the other hand, you are astronomer enough to know how contrary it is to the law of nature. … Keep in your eye the opposite pretensions: First, of those who say [Jesus Christ] was begotten by God, born of a virgin, suspended and reversed the laws of Nature at will, and ascended bodily into heaven; and second, of those who say he was a man of illegitimate birth, of a benevolent heart, enthusiastic mind, who set out without pretensions to divinity, ended in believing them, and was punished capitally for sedition by being gibbeted, according to the Roman law, which punished the first commission of that offence by whipping, and the second by exile or death in furea. Jefferson, in letter to his nephew (Works, Vol. ii., p. 217) I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies Jefferson, letter to Dr. Woods This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it. John Adams, in a letter to Jefferson If by religion, we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, "that this would be the best of worlds if there were no religion in it." Jefferson, replying to Adams I knew Dr. Wilson personally, and have entertained him at my house, on which occasion he said in my hearing what my relative, the Rev. Dr. Ashbel Green of Philadelphia, frequently told me in his study, viz., that during the time that Congress sat in that city the clergy, suspecting from good evidence that Washington was not a believer in the Bible as a revelation from heaven, laid a plan to extort from him a confession, either pro or con, but that the plan failed. Dr. Green was chaplain to Congress during all the time of its sitting in Philadelphia; dined with the President on special invitation nearly every week; was well acquainted with him, and after he had been dead and gone many years, often said in my hearing, though very sorrowfully, of course, that while Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist. (emphasis mine -jcd11235) Hon. A.B. Bradford of Pennsylvania, relative to Washington's belief It was during his [Dr. Green's] long residence in Philadelphia that I became intimately acquainted with him as a relative, student of theology at Princeton, and a member of the same Presbytery to which he belonged. Many an hour during my student and clergyman days did I spend with him in his study at No. 150 Pine street, Philadelphia, listening to his interesting and instructive conversation on Revolutionary times and incidents. I recollect well that during one of these interviews in his study I inquired of him what were the real opinions Washington entertained on the subject of religion. He promptly answered pretty nearly in the language which Jefferson says Dr. Rush used. He explained more at length the plan laid by the clergy of Philadelphia at the close of Washington's administration as President to get his views of religion for the sake of the good influence they supposed they would have in counteracting the Infidelity of Paine and the rest of the Revolutionary patriots, military and civil. But I well remember the smile on his face and the twinkle of his black eye when he said: 'The old fox was too cunning for Us.' He affirmed, in concluding his narrative, that from his long and intimate acquaintance with Washington he knew it to be the case that while he respectfully conformed to the religious customs of society by generally going to church on Sundays, he had no belief at all in the divine origin of the Bible, or the Jewish-Christian religion. B.F. Underwood, in an article on Washington's religion Chicago Tribune The Infinite Father expects or requires no worship or praise from us. Benjamin Franklin The faith you mention has doubtless its use in the world. I do not desire to see it diminished, nor would I desire to lessen it in any way; but I wish it were more productive of good works than I have generally seen it. I mean real good works, works of kindness, charity, mercy, and public spirit, not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing, and reading, performing church ceremonies, or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments, despised even by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity. Franklin, n a letter to the Rev. George Whitefield, 1753 I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. Thomas Paine Age Of Reason All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. … Each of these churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the word of God. The Jews say that their word of God was given by God to Moses, face to face; the Christians say that their word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say that their word of God, the Koran, was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of these churches accuses the others of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all. Paine Age Of Reason It is the fable of Jesus Christ, as told in the New Testament, and the wild and visionary doctrine raised thereon, against which I contend. The story, taking it as it is told, is blasphemously obscene. Paine Age Of Reason From the time I was capable of conceiving an idea and acting upon it by reflection, I either doubted the truth of the Christian system or thought it to be a strange affair. Paine Age Of Reason as quoted in Six Historic Americans by John E. Remsburg Just so everyone knows. A case can be built to support Gods foundation and mans foundation. It is best to research for yourself in this matter. "We didn't start the fire"

Instead of "amusing", I suggest you find it "compelling". Maybe as a result of the "serious academic" studies" they found insight that you missed.Quote Shouldnt you also find the inspiration it brings compelling as well? There is insight that you also may have missed. Those who find faith in Christ dont find it based on his actual historical existance, but on his Word alone and the testimony of others'. Maybe it is more powerful than you think? "We didn't start the fire"

No worries! "We didn't start the fire"

Your right, thats it. "We didn't start the fire"

Read your words very carefully, repeatedly, if necessary, and then explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. Its unfortunate that you seem to be against me becuase of my faith. I don't hold your faith against you. Believe whatever you like. I do tend to have a problem when you (or anyone) claims their path to the Truth is the only path. You seem self assured that your interpretation of the Gospels is not only correct, but the only correct one, and if anyone believes them to mean something else, they are wrong. Christ never taught such arrogance. Now, If you would please explain to us why you are not one of those people you speak of. What, specifically, makes you different? I thought I already did? It does not appear so. "The Gospel is about truth, its about speaking the entire truth to God. The entire truth will find your guilt and condemnation." "The only one who isnt a hypocrite is the one who admits he is one" If one speaks the entire truth to God, he will see his need for repentance, and through repentance, grace will guide. Grace does not guide all those who "know" the Gospel, if guides those who are truly humble and contrite. I have been into few churches where these qualities of the spirit are practiced. In a real church, Leaders should be servants and the most humble of all. Do you see this? I dont. Yet, they have the Gospel right there in front of them. I have said and will continue to say, that we are all evil, none of us are good, if we are not on guard and aware of hypocrisy, then we will be deiceved by it...Jesus himself told the disciples to "be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy" No one, not me, not Peter, not even you can escape the power of hypocrisy, its very nature is unseen to us. It is the condition of the heart which reveals it. That's all very interesting. However, it does nothing to answer the question. why you are not one of those people you speak of "The only one who isnt a hypocrite is the one who admits he is one" I am guilty of hypocrisy. Very guilty. Did this answer your question? If not, maybe you should tell me what you want me to say instead? Dont you think it is somewhat interesting that I have said I am guilty, evil, dark, over and over again, yet it sounds like you believe I am saying im not? "We didn't start the fire"

Yup.. so instead of listening to what the LORD said, we have to rely on what a first century man who had his own personal preduidices toward very common practices of his time. Paul never even met Jesus in his lifetime...but he did found a church that has an interesting hypocrisy concerning its clergy and some of their propensities towards other men and boys. You can feel all the guilt you want for whatever experiences in life you may have had.. but that is all about what you were taught. Transposing your guilt onto others is not what Jesus taught. I know plenty of gays who are not guilty at all in their own lives yet have to deal with the guilt of others who guide the hatred toward them. What you are saying is interesting, did you see any hatred in my origianal post? I dont believe I was transposing my guilt to anyone. I believe I was telling you exactly what Jesus said. Just because someone has no guilt for something, does not mean they are not guilty. This is the very thing that the Pharisees could not see.... Look... 39Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind." 40Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" 41Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. "We didn't start the fire"