rynodigsmusic

Dude, Jesus was gay. Otherwise, why surround himself with 12 male disciples and then have an institution created to protect his students from prosecution for sexually abusing the altar boys. Talk about immoral...I think there is something wrong with your "beliefs"!! It is a day for celebration when this great country continues to stand for FREEDOM!! Tell me, how far are we supposed to let those freedoms go? All the way? Why have any laws then? Why not just anyone do whatever they want? Dont you see that the more we say yes, without any concern with whats morally right, the more laws we recieve protecting those "freedoms". We wonder where all these wierd little laws are coming from? Thinking just like that.... Forgive me, but if you believe there is something wrong with my beliefs, it is because you believe yours to be right. I believe that is the issue? anyway, I have way overstepped my boundaries here....Very sorry to everyone, I was just throwing out some serious thoughts (surely mixed with more opinion that I would have liked), but, I am far from perfect. "We didn't start the fire"

I'm not indifferent. I'm standing for what I believe to be right. There you go. Im assuming your homosexual? Well, I feel like an absolute moron. Extremely embarassed. I thought I saw a post a while back saying that she was gay and married. I really wish I could discern when people were being sarcastic...No, I guess your right, you dont have to be gay to support same sex marriages. But again, because of this moral division, there will always be this "uncomfortable annoyance". Just as you support, as it is your right, I dont, as that is my right, there really shouldnt be a division of heart. If I recall correctly, Shotgun (female) is happily married to her husband (male). You don't have to be gay to support equal rights for everyone. "We didn't start the fire"

No, that's not what was decided. What was decided was should it be allowable to discriminate against people based on their sexual preference. The California Supreme Court happened to make a decision favoring morality and equal rights instead of homophobia and discrimination. Ok, first of all, no matter what anyone says, if someone disagrees with someone else, there will always be division, unless we understand that it is simply ok to disagree. Which is basically what I am assuming everyone is telling me now. I dont make a judgment on anyone, but I still believe it should remain morally not right. What someone believes to be civally right does not mean that it is morally right. Now, we can stay in these threads for the next 50 years explaining why we think things are right or wrong, but that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that cival liberties shouldnt have anything to do with sexual orientation. This is only my opinion. Discriminating on color, race, or sex, is not the same as discriminating against sexual orientation. But the law has taken a moral issue (with much of the country and the world) and covered it under a cival rights issue. On top of that, they passed a law making what they did ok. In my opinion, it should remain wrong, morally, whether or not people decide to do it is up to them. For those who beilieve this wont affect them or their children, I disagree. Homosexuality has brought shame to the hearts of many people who have been caught up in its lie. Most homosexuals I have talked to, always say they wish they werent this way. Again, this is ony my opinion and observation. "We didn't start the fire"

I'm not indifferent. I'm standing for what I believe to be right. There you go. Im assuming your homosexual? "We didn't start the fire"

I value morals, and it's not a sad day for me. I understand that you believe it doesnt really affect you right? I think everyone should at least be held accountable for what they themselves believe to be right and wrong. It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong. The question, when it comes to morals, is not whether the country decides it is right, but what you decide. Because slowly but surely, the law is deciding the face America has in the world...they are speaking for us. Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man? This is ultimately what the court of californias descision had to be, wrong or right. They made an open descision in the face of the world today in which the impact will be greater than what people think. I love America, I served, I love our beloved country, but it is slowly slipping away from a country which is good, to a country which is not. More to say on this....later. The question when it comes to homosexuality is, is it a choice or not? The truth is that no one but that person truly knows. But there is a difference in being gay and being sexually immoral. As long as there is Jesus in the country, then there will be division between those who believe it is right and those who do not. The division will be because of our beliefs, not becuase of the individual descision of those involved. Of course I am open as you all are to discuss this more, but morally, I dont believe it is right. But of course I dont believe alot of things we do are. I will say one thing. I dont believe it is right to point the immoral finger at homosexuals, if you are guilty of something else. Jesus spoke about other things as well.... "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander" "We didn't start the fire"

I value morals, and it's not a sad day for me. I understand that you believe it doesnt really affect you right? I think everyone should at least be held accountable for what they themselves believe to be right and wrong. It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong. The question, when it comes to morals, is not whether the country decides it is right, but what you decide. Because slowly but surely, the law is deciding the face America has in the world...they are speaking for us. Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man? This is ultimately what the court of californias descision had to be, wrong or right. They made an open descision in the face of the world today in which the impact will be greater than what people think. I love America, I served, I love our beloved country, but it is slowly slipping away from a country which is good, to a country which is not. More to say on this....later. "We didn't start the fire"

I am glad that you get that out of the Bible and that it works for you. But I do not believe in God, so of course I do not believe that the Bible is written by God, and I personally find it of little use or inspiration to me. But luckily for me, I find inspiration, love, etc., in other things.

I try to always speak the truth. And yes, I have read the Gospel. I have read most of the Bible (though it's been a while), and I do not believe it contains "the truth." It's just a book written by men. I also try to always speak the truth. I was trying to get creative for some reason in how I was asking if youve read the Gospel. I didnt mean for it to sound disrespectful, it was a sincere question, so I just wanted to make sure you know that first. It is funny to me that people believe that just becuase they know the Gospel, that they speak the truth to God. God doesnt care what we know. He demands that we speak the truth from our hearts to him. If we believe we are not guilty of sin, (sins very job is to seperate us from God) then we are not speaking the truth to God. The Gospel (and the entire bible) is written by man, but it is inspired by the Holy Spirit, therefore it is actually written by God. It is the hallowed book of righteousness, but there is soooooo much more power in it than just finding truth. There is love that touches the deepest parts of our hearts. That is what seems to be its greatest connection with man. "We didn't start the fire"

Oh Linz, you must think I am so biggoted

I realize this gets to the fundamental distinction of the 2 camps (one being faith-based and the other relying on deductive reasoning); but isn't your being so sure about what you feel you know without much to support your assertions, while dismissing what others think they know via deductive logic a bit like saying I know you are but what am I. It does. We all had a huge conversation about this very subject in a previous thread. You have to respect the dividing line between the two, it is impenetrable. It is literally two completely different perceptions of the same world. One sees what the other does not and visa versa. I would hardly say that those who believe however, dont use deductive logic, its just logic and reason that is out of the perception of those who do not believe. Since I am a believer, I believe there was wisdom in the "beginning". Others do not. "We didn't start the fire"

Why don't you enlighten us with your intelligence ... If some of your children are saints and some of your children are sinners would you consider yourself to be a loving father if you killed all of your children to punish the sinners? It seems to me that you may not fully understand what a sinner or a saint really is. Its not one or the other, it has to do with desire. First of all, we are all sinners, its just not all of us desire to be. A saint is the name given to those who desire to bring the love of God to others in the way that they recieved it. Righteousness is a gift, its what the power of life is all about, if you find righteosness, you will find life. A saints vision of righteousness is absolute perfection. As long as he hopes for perfection, his desire will be to get there. No one gets to that desire without grace (the love of God) It has very little to do with lifestyle and everything to do with the heart. A saint lives with an inspired understanding of the what it means to fear God. Many of you do not fear him and that is what you may never be able to see. Those who follow Jesus hope and pray that mercy will be shown to all, but its what we accept and how we accept it that brings us the peace in Christ. When they asked Jesus to show us a sign, Jesus said, "A wicked and adulterous generation wants a sign, but none will be given". Knowing everything that we have said and done against God and still expecting a sign is not right. Even if he did send a sign, people would still not believe. He has given us the Holy Spirit through his own blood, trust me, that is more than acceptable. There are so many errors in these posts, I really dont know where to begin. Jesus is all about grace and truth. None of us can stand in front of God as innocent, not even the "super christians". It is only because of Gods justice being satisfied on the cross by his own love for us that we can even find life. We deserve everything we get, including Christians. If you want truth, pray for mercy with all your heart, and hope that your prayer is without doubt. Give thanks for everything that happens good and bad, and dont let the darkness which is consuming more and more seperate you from the truth. "We didn't start the fire"

I never said that I don't listen to truth. Since you listen to truth, do you speak the truth as well? Have you read the Gospel? "We didn't start the fire"

the Bills have established that it's anything but clear, and only the spirtually gifted can understand it. ...All of us are spiritually gifted. All that means is do you listen? Can you hear? Or are you still listening with your own ears for what you want to hear? No one, not even the Bills

You may not know how profound what you are saying actually is. All of us are inspiring one another, it really doesnt take alot of effort to see the impact and flow of these coversations...We all have life within us, and that is our fundamental connection. Its finding the greater things in life that most of us seek. If anything I say makes sense to you, then you listen to truth more than you think, and that means that you are on truths side. Jesus said "all those on the side of truth, listen to me" Jesus as the Son of God is spiritually discerned. God is spirit, the spirit inspires, Jesus was a man just like you and I, inspired by the spirit of God (The Holy Spirit) It was God, as man who showed his love for us on the cross. Grace is the greatest gift, but it also is spiritually discerned. Grace is the presence of God, this I cant explain with words...beautiful, full of life, intoxicating. "We didn't start the fire"

You're right, I better get ready. What is the best way to defend against your God? A knife, gun, missile, etc...? After all, I don't want to spend eternity beneath an evil dictator (your Heaven) and I don't want to be taken hostage and tortured for eternity (your Hell) ... If we speak in the truth of the Gospel, then we say we dont know if Heaven is a place or not. We dont know if Hell is a place either. What we do know is that they are destinations in the heart. We know that one is comfort and one is agony and both are entered by fire. I believe what this means is we enter either by the desire of our hearts. Truth is the way you reconcile with God. But unfortunately, truth is one of the hardest things for us to accept. Even when we are watching all the things we love vanish from our lives, we still will not acknowledge the truth...like an addict who watches his life go up in smoke, or a man who is always finding fault in someone else and will inevitibly be consumed by his own desire to not see the fault in himself. The Gospel is clear. God judges us, the way we judge others. It is not God who will judge and condemn you, it is yourself, and Jesus says by your words you will be condemned and by your words you will be acquited. Im afraid you may not come to God until/unless your heart desires him, and that will most likely not happen until you need him. But, this I promise, when/if that time comes...he will be there with open arms, regardless what you have done or thought, and he will show you what the light is all about. "We didn't start the fire"

Even Albert Einstein just proved the wisdom of Jesus and probably didnt even know it! Einstein..."I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one." Jesus..."I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven" "We didn't start the fire"

I don't necessarily see "boozing and sexing and gambling" as "sin," but I do agree that those actions have earthly consequences. And in excess, they can disturb a search for peace and content, if that is what one is looking for. Did you find what you really want yet? Keep that, that is very sacred to you, and that is closer to who you are than you think. One of the hardest things to find in this life is what we really want. God knows exactly what that is. Because, one, we are made in his image, and two, he made each one of us special. Its not that hard to believe that we are all uniquely special in many ways. While we believe what we really want is the nature of our sinful ways, the truth is that we all want to be understood and comforted with an unfailing love. No one understands us like God and no one loves us like God. Sin is in the heart. It is guilt that gets covered up and over time hardens our heart and callouses it, making it hard to recieve love in increasing measures. When truth reveals it to ourselves and to God, grace erases it completely, of course one has to have faith that Jesus is the atonement for sin to truly believe they are forgiven. What begins to reveal itself is how much we really dont like sin and a newfound desire comes about, one we had not seen. We find a desire for righteousness that we did not have before. Just as our perception changes, and just as the death of one life, finds life in another, so do our desires change in ways we had not seen before. If I included scripture in anything that I write about, my posts would be twice as long. "We didn't start the fire"

I don't necessarily see "boozing and sexing and gambling" as "sin," but I do agree that those actions have earthly consequences. And in excess, they can disturb a search for peace and content, if that is what one is looking for. I understand. In any event it is not being sin free which finds the spirit. We cant do or not do anything to find it. It only comes through repentance and acceptance of the Holy Spirit through Jesus. That being said it is the life of righteousness in which one will find the greatest gift. I did not see this before I became born again, but now I see it as clearly as I see this computer screen. Ask yourself what you really really want in this life....Just humor me, dig down deep into your inner being and ask yourself what you really want...Hang with me now, I promise I am not a self-righteous hypocrite and some of the things I will tell you may suprise you...but just think for now and i will write more in a few minutes.... "We didn't start the fire"

Its important to understand what is happening. Consider if all the scientists in the world came together in a summit somewhere and decided that becasue of the way we have been living, the earth is evolving in ways that will ultimately destroy us. Whose fault would it be, ours, or earths? Ok, now that we understand its ours, dont we have to deal with the destruction we caused? It is not as if nature has anything against us, it is just the wisdom of an evolving continuum of time and space. Gods judgement on the sin of man was already brought forth through Jesus, now he is just shifting the wine into another wineskin. The "wisdom of man" will pass and all the knowledge we have gained will dissapear, what we are witnessing is the beginning of birth pains. The scale of what is to come is on such a level that even the greatest minds of man, all of our greatest accomplishments will look like an ant in the ocean. Hard to imagine? Why? When God, who is eternal, shakes the heavenly bodies, the awe will be so inspiring and amazing, I dont know, I would think our tranze-like state would be ignorant to everything else around us, even our own pain. At that moment, we will know who God is. Whoevers' lifetime this happens in, and it will happen, will be witness to the most awsome spectacle of Gods power since the creation of Heaven and earth. What you are speaking of in a round-about-way is called Free Will. And Free Will does nothing but let "God" off the hook for not taking more interest in man. So, again, why does this guy not come to Earth and talk to us in a language we can all understand? Its much much more than free will, its more about accepting the truth, but ok. God himself came down, suffered and was crucified for us. I dont think thats "letting "God" off the hook". He spoke very clearly, its just that not everyone wants to hear what he said. Those who hear it find life, those who dont will find death in thier sin. His message is repent, turn to God, and love one another. The funny thing about repentance is that we are scared to death of it. Either we dont want to fail or we dont want to quit doing the things which are running our lives. This is how I felt, but on the other side of repentance is the life we really want, its just that we dont truly believe that until we see it, and we cant see it unless we repent with all our hearts. This is the clear message of the entire bible. This is it, the big secret, this is what Jesus died for. He gave us the forgiveness of God through his blood, he gave us life through his spirit. "We didn't start the fire"

Its important to understand what is happening. Consider if all the scientists in the world came together in a summit somewhere and decided that becasue of the way we have been living, the earth is evolving in ways that will ultimately destroy us. Whose fault would it be, ours, or earths? Ok, now that we understand its ours, dont we have to deal with the destruction we caused? It is not as if nature has anything against us, it is just the wisdom of an evolving continuum of time and space. Gods judgement on the sin of man was already brought forth through Jesus, now he is just shifting the wine into another wineskin. The "wisdom of man" will pass and all the knowledge we have gained will dissapear, what we are witnessing is the beginning of birth pains. The scale of what is to come is on such a level that even the greatest minds of man, all of our greatest accomplishments will look like an ant in the ocean. Hard to imagine? Why? When God, who is eternal, shakes the heavenly bodies, the awe will be so inspiring and amazing, I dont know, I would think our tranze-like state would be ignorant to everything else around us, even our own pain. At that moment, we will know who God is. Whoevers' lifetime this happens in, and it will happen, will be witness to the most awsome spectacle of Gods power since the creation of Heaven and earth. "We didn't start the fire"

Your right, I have a problem saying what I need to say with fewer words. But, what I summed up for you, is what the the Gospel is all about. If not, let someone who is familiar with the Word tell me otherwise. I do not want to be careless with Gods Word. As far as your love for sin, do not think for one second you are fooling anyone but yourself. I was the exact same way and whether we like it or not, sin also has earthly consequences, and it will disturb our great search for peace and content. As for repenting at the last hour...Jesus said, "Many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first." You may have just revealed you are closer than you think. Many dont even see the things they do as sin. "We didn't start the fire"

Dude, stop asking silly questions. It is a purposefully mysterious and complicated procedure God is going through to bring about The End, and only Chuteless is privy to the details of His actual plan, which God keeps changing apparently as time rolls forward. I saw this show last night, before changing the channel to the ghost investigation... that focused on the theories of the end times as interpreted in Revelations. It is wide open to interpretation, and could mean almost anything, but one thing we have seen over the last 150 years or so are doomsday cults predicting the end of the world that never came. People selling all their worldly possessions and giving the proceeds to their "messiah" cult leaders and waiting for that day that never came. I dunno. Some people say it'll come in our lifetime and I read somewhere that Nostradamus predicted that it would happen during the reign of the 2nd pope after John Paul the 2nd, which means the next pope after Benedict. My details are fuzzy so don't take my word for it. I just don't care. I'll just continue to live my life and raise my daughter and love my wife for as long as I'm able to. Jesus gave us the secret to survive the end times. Hope beyond this life and pray so that we do not fall into tempation and fallaway from our salvation. He also told us how to watch and wait. So we have to learn how to wait, while not being alarmed, afraid, troubled, or decieved. Like waiting for something we know will happen, while still living with love in our hearts. Jesus also told us to not worry, that such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Let me be clear, falling away from the faith is not the same as sinning. Love of sin is what causes us to fallaway from the faith, as love for sin causes hatred toward God. If the heart of the person is sincere in his remorse (God sees our remorse more clearly than we do, he also sees the love we have for him more clearly than we do as well), the mercy of God is limitless, this is the power of grace...not only will he forgive, he absolutely loves to forgive. Everytime we are forgiven through sincere repentance, grace is understood more and more. Grace is the presence of God, the more we stand in the presence of God, the more we understand what life is all about and can teach one another what Jesus taught us. "We didn't start the fire"

Amen Brother. We are at the end of our days. I've read Revelations Seven Times, it's all happening right before our eyes. You know that people have been saying that since the Bible was first published, right? Why are we at the end times? War? What's new? Political instability? What's new? Famine? what's new? Economic decline? What's new? Natural disasters? What's fucking new? The rumors are whats new, the way we hear of everything and see it on television ect.... The end times prophecy speaks of us seeing all these things. Read it for yourself...No one wants to know about the end unless they hear about the beginning. God does give us hope. In fact, more than what we could have imagined (at least it was that way with me) Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. 9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time. 26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29"Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c] 30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. The Day and Hour Unknown 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. 42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 45"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' 49and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "We didn't start the fire"

Exactly, at the time. Not so chatty now, is he? God is more patient with you than you know. Believe me, you are not out of his heart by a long shot. And remember that Gods word speaks through action, just be careful with what you allow yourself to believe and say. "We didn't start the fire"

I think you might be confusing god with Popeye. Look, it makes absolutely no freekin' sense that god would ever "work in mysterious ways" if, as you say he is the "God of ALL Gods". Let's just put that one to rest right now. If god were so vain as to repeatedly make that statement in biblical times, then why in god's name would he not simply be more obvious today? IF god wanted to send us a "message", he'd could easily just rearrange the stars and freekin' spell it out for us in unambiguous language. Something to the effect of, "Hey guys, god here. I just wanted to tell you all that 99% of you are full of shit and these guys over here on this little island are, in fact, the one true religion. Now stop being assholes and fighting wars over it. See! I just TOLD you what is the truth and now you can all go about your ant like existence and for christ sake stop giving money to assholes on TV." That's to say IF god actually existed and gave a crap about what we thought. I understand your frustration. What you just said hit me pretty hard, so I gave you a couple of end times verses spoken by Jesus to relate to your heart. And when you give, give to God, God will repay all those who stole from his heart. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken. "We didn't start the fire"