falxori

Just as Darius says all Israelis are racist murderers who wants to kill Palestinians just for fun, and i doubt he has ever met one in person. I don't have a problem with him hating israel and israelis, it is his right. i do have a problem with the half true, one sided views of the absolute blame of israel in this confilict that he's promoting. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

this thread is really not needed. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

Of the 175 United Nations Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel. 21 members of the UN are Arab countries, and 52 members represent Islamic countries. this makes the UN far from an unbiased body. the US veto is keeping it relevant at least to a certain degree. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

beside the fact that it was a civilian aircraft... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

actually, the palestinians are pretty democratic too. but sadly they have chosen Hamas as their elected leadership... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

Wrong and its peaceful neighbours (including your home country) are a model for civilized free societies, right? I have no idea what that means, or how it is relevan to anything, care to explain? O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

the basic reason for that is that judaism is not a missionary religion. in order to become jewish you have to learn a lot of things that a jewish born man would never know (unless he's religious and wants to). you have endless tests and the process is not fun at all. Islam and christianity always worked the numbers and tried to convert as many as they could and thats why you have such a difference. another reason is that when the old kingdom of Israel fell, many groups lost contact with mainstream judaism over the years (there are several tribes in africa and in the far east that have very similar customs and holidays" O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

it doesn't matter. it only takes one idiot who wants to push the red button and now thinks that allah is ok with it. just like the whole suicide bombings as a method, some say its bad and some say its good. you chose which suits your desires. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

i think that most here did exactly that, including myself... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

not more or less than any other culture in the world at some point in history. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

i don't care if they kill themselves. its the part where they murder dozens of others while doing so which is the problem. so where do you draw the line ? who decide how bad of a life is an acceptable reason to blow up a bus ? O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

let me refine that. the average Israeli will have the best life Israel as a state can offer its citizens and the average Palestinian will have the best life the palestinian state can offer its citizens. this land will have to be divided and each nation will take care of its own. my historic link to places like Hebron and Nablus are as storng as the palestinians, but i accept the fact that my family will not be getting back there anytime soon. neither it was Palestinian. it was british, ottomans... roman and guess what, israeli again. so why stop 60 years ago and not go 2000 ? exactly. just as i'm willing to give up parts of this land which are very dear to me. we're stuck here together and have to make the best of it and compromise. most of the israelis have realized that and the others who don't are not calling the shots. I can't say the same about the palestinians and now after the election where Hamas got the people's vote, it doesnt look any better O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

i don't know what are the events discussed in your quote but i'm sure they are biased and full of half truths as always... 100 palestinians shot? who were they? when was it? how many of them were innocent civilians carrying AK47s or preparing the next suicide bomb attack? including children? where? were they the target? what were the circumstances of the incident? how many suicide attacks in Israel happened just before the operation? how many were planned at the moment? i'm sorry, i'm not impressed by quotes. as i said there are a million quotes to either side. all i know is that Arafat double game led to the rise of terrorism to degree where Hamas has won the election (democratically), rockets fly out of Gaza even though there is not a single israeli there and that the sane voices on the Palestinian side are getting weaker and weaker. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you can bring a million quotes that say its all Israel's fault and i can bring a million quotes that say otherwise, it will lead us no where. if you want to focus on Arafat, he has stated many times (only in arabic speeched, btw) that the peace process is just another way of getting things and that an armed conflict is always an option when peaceful negotiation dont get you all the way. Israel was willing to settle, he wasn't and on top of it all he kept his violent options alive by letting Hamas, Islamic Jihad and even factions of his own fatah movemnet continue. now these violent groups are too strong to be stopped and the result is Hamas winning the election. at least they are open and honest about not accepting any compromise. and if you want to list sections of the Oslo accords that were not implemented, there are more than enough in the palestinian side. "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

i don't. this incident you've quoted was just an excuse, pretty similar to these cartoons which suddenly after 4 months became an issue. when you want to fight, you'll find something to fight over. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

or... maybe Israel actually doesnt want to kill just anyone and everyone. here's a new idea, try not fighting for a while and see what will happen. up until now every round of peace talks ended when the palestinians resorted back to violence the moment they didnt get everything they wanted. you can't sit and talk and keep waving a gun. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

that's exaclty my point. you compared the hunt for jews (being polish, russina or algerian) to a dispute between israel as a nation to the palestinians as a nation. no israeli is looking for the extermination of palestinians/muslims or anyone else. i'm sorry, that excuse/reason is unacceptable. besides, the days of rocks and sticks are long gone, today its AK47, RPG and rockets. the difference? Israel has the ability to destroy everything and everyone, but it doesn't. can you say the same about the newly elected Hamas? and back to the subject, i don't think these cartoons were funny, nor smart (although i support their right to publish them). i just think that the arab world should take a look at their own media before accusing others. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

yet you compare it to something that is not even in the same area of magnitude (again, even if all of your views about who's the bad guys here are true). are you talking about muslims in general? palestinians? israeli-arabs? israeli arabs are israeli citizens and have the same rights as i do. beside the fact that are not required to serve in the army, we are eual by law. innocent children or those sent carrying explosives ? innocent civilians are not targeted although they sometimes get hurt. its war and it can be ugly. but civilians are NEVER the target. can you say the same about the palestinian methods? pretty much the same job opportunities i have in the EU or the US if i'm not a EU/US citizen. Israeli arabs have the same opportunities as any other israeli and i even have an israeli arab as a project manager in one of my project. pa;estinians do work in israel based on permits but these permits are harder to get when terrorists use them too... too many. most because they were used for terrorist operations or did they belong to the family of a suicide bomber. both are valid in my book. i dont know what you are and i don't really care. don't try to make the israeli palestinian issue a jewish-muslim issue, its not. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

fine, here you go... which shows you are either blind or ignorant. a. palestinians are not Israeli citizens (beside israeli arabs which have the exact same rights by law). they live in a teritory that was fought on and lost, if anything they were jordanian/egyptian citizens. very different from european jews in the 1930's where they were as german/polish/french etc as any other european. i can argue about who is responsible for the killings but lets play it your way and say its ALL israels fault. the difference is that here it is a war zone where two people/cultures/nations fight over the same land. war may be ugly but war over land is pretty much the reason for all wars in history. the Nazi's hunt for jews focused on killing all jews, period. not taking land, not taking property no nothing. the killed the jews in their own country, and in any country they could reach them, there was no advantage to it whatsoever, if anything, it took resources from their already streched war efforts. yeah well, i dont even want to imagine what would happen if you guys could have it your way with us here in Israel. i can take your claim and say "although Israel is much stronger it still uses very precise measures and does almost anything it can to minimize civilian casualties, which is not easy when terrorists fir rockets from back yard" i'm not even going to start the debate of whos land it is and who started pretty much every war there's been here in the last 60 years. oh, and who took every chance to delay and avoid reaching a solution peacefully. if you really can't see the difference between killing a nation just for the sake of killing and people getting hurt in a state of war (even if you stick to "its all Israel's fault" line), then i suggest you think before you open your mouth abouot it O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

you know, i've tried having a civilized discussion with you in the past. agreeing not to agree on many things. but this post either shows you either know nothing about history (both the Israeli-palestinian confilict and the holocaust) or that your views are so twisted that you can compare the two. either way i doubt anything i'll say will make you see anything but this twisted view. just do yourself a favor and stop pretending to "take a balanced view and see both sides" as you always claim, because after reading this post, its nothing but absurd. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

I doubt "having no muslims" (or any other group) will lead to a peaceful world. the human race is tribal by nature, we'll join forces against a mutual foe and be at eachother's throats when one does not exist. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

although these (and a lot of others) make me really mad, i don't see myself burning down an embassy. i think that more than mad, it makes me sad that people still resort to these poor stereotypes. i don't know, maybe after 2000 years of similar publications, you learn to take things in proportions... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

yeap, exactly the same Israel's right to exist is based on a little more than a "Biblical Prophecies that are thousands of years old". its based on a nation that have existed here longer than most other nations in the world. and back to the subject of this thread, i'm still hoping that good will come out of it. things often look different when you are in control and hamas will have to take responsibility for their actions and the way they reflect on the palestinian people. the other option is becoming like Afghanistan or Iran, having a terror state and being isolated. i think the palestinians are smarter than this. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

actually the sabra and Chatilla incident is a stain. its far from being Sharon's fault (as you said, Christian Lebanese massacared muslim Lebanese as part of their ongoing civil war), but knowing the hatred between them, Sharon should have forseen this risk and stopped them before they acted. this caused him to be removed from his position of defense minister and he was stained for life. I remember what were the reactions around the world when he was first elected (I shared some of them) and i see the way he is seen now. the basic fact is that because his hard line and militaristic history, he was pretty much the only one who could lead the region into a new age (as always the PA did nothing to contribute...). i just hope he did enough to set things in motion and that the process will continue in the west bank (although it will harder without the PA doing anything to control their people). O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

how can you keep a straight face while calling Sharon a baby killer and a mass murderer while making Arafat nothing more than a petty thief? you can disagree with some of Sharon's actions (I know i do), but at least he had the sense to realize the only way to peace is to compromise and divide this land. something Arafat (and sadly, his current followers) failed to do. I find it a bit interesting that the only two people i've heard wishing for his death are you and your beloved Iranian president... O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."