StreetScooby

That's a good point, IMO. I've learned to avoid getting into AGW discussion with people, by and large. But, when I find myself in one (at least face to face), I now always ask two questions: 1) How much warming is due to the water vapor greenhouse effect? (~60degF, we/people wouldn't be here without it ). 2) What is the weight fraction of CO2 currently in the atmosphere. (0.0004). Not one of the rabid AGW proponents I've had this conversation with had any clue to those answers. Doesn't inspire confidence in me, and I tend to end the conversation quickly afterwards. Again, I absolutely do not think it is a good idea to keep pumping large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. Likewise, I do not think an increase in 2 degF over ~100 years is going to destroy the planet. The only viable solution that can meet developed countries energy needs, right now, is nuclear. Of course, rabid AGW types are adamantly opposed to that idea. My next response tends to be - When is someone going to write "Living in Trees for Dummies"? I will absolutely buy that book, and read it. We are all engines of karma

A while ago, I spent a fair amount of time looking at "real science literature" re: AGW. I walked away very impressed by what I saw. Some very smart and dedicated people are working on this, and they are very upfront about what they know and what they don't know. I've become jaded with the "Al Gore" types. It comes across as a power/money ploy to me, at this point in time. We are all engines of karma

That we can agree on. We are all engines of karma

DanG, I honestly don't think they are capable of swing federal elections even if they are "voting for dead people". I do think it's a valid concern. I also think, at this point in time, that it is a a reasonable expectation to present some type of appropriate id before voting. We are all engines of karma

I don't recall reading these particular articles, but a quick google search brings them up, and many more... Did Dead People Vote in Philadelphia? Voter ID and 100+ Percent Turnout in Philly We are all engines of karma

Good read... Full disclosure, I do not think it is a good idea to keep dumping large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere... Flame away...

Do I think voter fraud has swung elections? Not really. Agreed, as long as it signifies you're allowed to vote. We are all engines of karma

I guess we read different things. As one example, did you hear about the woman convicted of this in Chicago recently? We are all engines of karma

Markets do work, IMO. By market, I mean many buyers and many sellers. In that vein, the problem with our health care system stems from so much government intrusion that it's no longer a market. Markets require educated people willing to make their own decisions. Government intrusion has removed that "hurdle" for too many people in our society. When people rely on the government to take care of them, it doesn't work out very well. Just look at the projects in NYC, the horror stories with people trying to using government health care, the people in Sandy Hook still waiting for the government to fix their problem. The list can go on... I live by Westchester Medical Center. Go in there on a Friday night and the place is packed with poor spanish people. I look at that and think two things - 1) These folks are living here, most probably illegally, and they work hard. Westchester has a huge illegal immigrant/undocumented alien population. Again, they work hard, and are very family oriented. Just the kind of people we need in this country, IMO. 2) They aren't paying a dime, literally nothing, and some are on the receiving end of hugely expensive medical care. This cannot go on. I have no idea what to do about it. I agree that EVERYONE should pay federal taxes. Far too many don't, and it has skewed our political system to a breaking point. We are all engines of karma

You're not missing anything... While it's never been proven to have had a substantive impact on an election, Democrats are routinely caught voting multiple times by using dead people's names. For the last presidential election, I've heard that Philadelphia precincts had unprecedented turnout, with many districts having over 100+ participation. I doubt this is what Tink is referring to. Interested to hear what he has to say to the original question. We are all engines of karma

Help us (well, at least some of us) understand what makes you think this? We are all engines of karma

New York State. We are all engines of karma

One last time here.... Have you ever been to NYC, and tried to cross the GWB? It is a major thorough fare, and it being closed impacts an enormous number of people, literally 100,000s if not more. So, yes, closing the GWB was a very big deal. We are all engines of karma

Wow, can't believe this came from you. There's lots of room for us to agree on here... How about this - every child's birth certificate must have the father's name on it? That way, we can all hold the father responsible for raising that child. And, eliminating single motherhood would reduce poverty in America more than any other measure we could take. And, it would enforce the concept of a nuclear family, which is the cornerstone for civil society. What do you think? We are all engines of karma

Obama, Reid, Pelosi and every other senior Democrat does that when they're in front of a microphone.... It's beyond blatant. We are all engines of karma

You can't be re-routed across the GWB. This impacted a lot of people for 3 days. The Port Authority has proven itself to be a cesspool. I really don't think Christie was aware of this, and he has cleaned house in a big way. We are all engines of karma

No, sfzombie, we can't agree on that. Did you see the link I provided? You make it sound like every corporation in America donates to Republicans, and I don't think that's a fair view on your part. Every union in America does effectively contribute to Democrats via union dues. Unions spend alot of money on politics. Lots of liberals rail against the Koch brothers, but they're aren't even in the top 10 political donors. The vast majority of the top 10 are extremely liberal. Here's an older article from the Wall Street Journal. Full disclosure, I read the WSJ every day, and I won't touch the NYTimes after years of BS opinion articles that were debunked thoroughly. The NYTimes isn't fit for cat litter, IMO. =============================================== The Really Big Money? Not the Kochs Harry Reid surely must have meant the unions when he complained about buying elections. By Kimberley A. Strassel March 6, 2014 7:09 p.m. ET Harry Reid is under a lot of job-retention stress these days, so Americans might forgive him the occasional word fumble. When he recently took to the Senate floor to berate the billionaire brothers Charles and David Koch for spending "unlimited money" to "rig the system" and "buy elections," the majority leader clearly meant to be condemning unions. It's an extraordinary thing, in a political age obsessed with campaign money, that nobody scrutinizes the biggest, baddest, "darkest" spenders of all: organized labor. The IRS is muzzling nonprofits; Democrats are "outing" corporate donors; Jane Mayer is probably working on part 89 of her New Yorker series on the "covert" Kochs. Yet the unions glide blissfully, unmolestedly along. This lack of oversight has led to a union world that today acts with a level of campaign-finance impunity that no other political giver—conservative outfits, corporate donors, individuals, trade groups—could even fathom. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in the Capitol Building, Jan. 25. Associated Press Mr. Reid was quite agitated on the Senate floor about "unlimited money," by which he must have been referring to the $4.4 billion that unions had spent on politics from 2005 to 2011 alone, according to this newspaper. The Center for Responsive Politics' list of top all-time donors from 1989 to 2014 ranks Koch Industries No. 59. Above Koch were 18 unions, which collectively spent $620,873,623 more than Koch Industries ($18 million). Even factoring in undisclosed personal donations by the Koch brothers, they are a rounding error in union spending. Mr. Reid was similarly heated over the tie-up between outside groups and politicians, by which he surely meant the unions who today openly operate as an arm of the Democratic Party. The press may despise the Kochs, but even it isn't stupid enough to claim they are owned by the GOP. Most outside conservatives groups, including the Koch-supported Americans for Prosperity, back candidates and positions that challenge the Republican line. And in any event, every conservative 501(c)(4) is so terrified of the hay the media and regulators would make over even a hint of coordination with the GOP, they keep a scrupulous distance. Unions, as 501(c)(5) organizations, are technically held to the same standards against coordination with political parties. Yet no Democrat or union official today even troubles to maintain that fiction. Hundreds upon hundreds of the delegates to the 2012 Democratic convention were union members. They were in the same room as party officials, plotting campaign strategies. The question therefore is how much of that $4.4 billion in union spending was at the disposal of the Democratic Party—potentially in violation of a bajillion campaign-finance rules? As for Mr. Reid's complaint that some "rig the system to benefit themselves," that was undoubtedly a reference to the overt, transactional nature of union money. Nobody doubts the Kochs and many corporations support candidates who they hope will push for free-market principles. Though imagine the political outcry if David or Charles Koch openly conditioned dollars for a politician on policies to benefit Koch Industries? In the past months alone, unions demanded an exemption to a tax under ObamaCare; the administration gave it. They demanded an end to plans to "fast track" trade deals; Mr. Reid killed it. They wanted more money for union job training; President Obama put it in his budget. Everybody understands—the press matter-of-fact reports it—that these policy giveaways are to ensure unions open their coffers to help Mr. Reid keep the Senate in November. The quid pro quo is even more explicit and self-serving at the state level, where public-sector unions elect politicians who promise to pay them more. If the CEO of Exxon tried this, the Justice Department would come knocking. The unions do it daily. Democrats hope to make a campaign theme out of conservative "dark" money, something else Mr. Reid knows about. In addition to other spending, unions have been aggressively funneling money into their own "dark" groups. One of these is the heavyweight 501(c)(4) Patriot Majority USA. Patriot Majority doesn't disclose its donors, though a Huffington Post investigation found it had been "fueled" in 2012 by $2.3 million in union donations. Amusingly, Patriot Majority used its undisclosed money on a campaign to expose the Koch brothers' "front" groups. Oh, and Patriot Majority is run by Craig Varoga, a former aide and close ally of . . . Harry Reid. The unions have had a special interest in funding attacks on conservative groups, since it has led to the IRS's regulatory muzzling of 501(c)(4) speech. Under the new rule, conservative 501(c)(4)s are restricted in candidate support; unions can do what they want. Conservative groups are stymied in get-out-the-vote campaigns; unions can continue theirs. Conservative outfits must count up volunteer hours; not unions. So now, in addition to a system in which organized labor spends "unlimited money" to "rig the system to benefit themselves" and "buy elections," (to quote Mr. Reid), Mr. Obama's IRS has made sure to shut up anyone who might compete with unions or complain about them. Supporters of campaign-finance rules never want to acknowledge that their maze of regulations serve primarily as a tool for savvy politicians to manipulate and silence opponents. For proof, they need only listen to Mr. Reid—who is pretty savvy, and who didn't misspeak after all. Write to kim@wsj.com We are all engines of karma

We can agree on that. That's one of the problems I see happening right now. No one can agree on what's being measured, much less what it means. Thus, you're left with assertions rather than arguments. Nothing substantive comes from assertions... We are all engines of karma

??? And who might that be? We are all engines of karma

Ah, you have an active imagination. I've been non-affiliated for 20 years now, and vote against someone much more than I vote for someone. I live in a state where unions, especially public employee unions, are completely out of control, and have been promised far more than can possibly be delivered by politicians who are funded by those very same unions. It's broken, and there is no mechanism in place to balance it. We are all engines of karma

Ok, Tink, here's a link: http://www.followthemoney.org/database/top10000.phtml Number 1 on this list is NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION Public Sector Unions, and they're shown as having donated $53M at the state level. Three of the top eleven are public sector unions, totaling well over $100M. Not sure how to reconcile these numbers with yours. Any ideas? Edited - numbers are across all states, not just NY. We are all engines of karma

This is good, and gives a basis for real discussion rather than assertions. These data are for 2012, and I'm questioning how they've classified their breakdown, e.g. http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/sectorall.php?cycle=2012 Do you really think labor, across the entire country, only gave 500K to that election? Really? But, you have provided a starting point and it's now incumbent upon me to bring some source to the table. Let me see what I can track down. Thanks. We are all engines of karma

Uhm, in the context of my question, yes he does. We are all engines of karma

Sources? We are all engines of karma

Fixed it for you... We are all engines of karma