Orange1

well, then i guess the majority of advice not to jump in this thread http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2498027;#2498027 was right then... glad you didn't make it worse. on your question... I thought a fracture of my talus was just a sprain at first - but as the other ankle was clearly broken the doc x-rayed it just in case and found the fracture . I'm told that damage to ligaments/tendons (such as you get in a dislocated break or a torn tendon) hurts a lot more than "just" a fracture. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Well, i missed one of my 2006 goals (to not get broken) which pretty much scuttled the rest of them (getting recurrent in windy season doesn't help much). So... 1. Don't break myself. 2. Tunnel training (planned for January - we have no tunnels here so it isn't as easy as it is for some of you) 3. Get my B licence (75 freefalls required so I'm still short of jumps, hoping the tunnel will help with the skills for the 4-way test jump) 4. Do lots of FS and ideally get on a team ... that's about it really. Not too ambitious - but I really want to try get my FS skills nailed. Then maybe I can start thinking about freeflying in 2008, after I get my C Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I was taught that sequence when I first went to freefall on a spring-loaded PC (my first ff was after SL, then I moved to AFF) but when I moved to BoC was then taught not to do that because it can dip the shoulder and lead to uneven body position on opening. I guess there's no one way that is going to cover all circumstances. (btw we were not taught to look before reaching, either on ripcord or BoC - just arch, reach, pull - there was a reason given but to be honest I can't remember now what it was; the only "look" in a seqeunce comes in EPs.) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

This may be a bit pedantic but I've just seen another post describing what is probably a PC in the burble as a "pilot chute in tow". I was taught it is a hesitation, and not a mal as it can be fixed easily, whereas as a "real" PC in tow is a mal (that sometimes can be cleared, apparently by a whack to the container, and sometimes just won't extract the D-bag, e.g. packing error). I was taught that if nothing is happening, do a quick look over your shoulder to see what's going on - if it is a hesitation that will be enough to clear the burble, if a PCIT you should be able to see the PC trailing behind you and act accordingly (of course if it's a total you won't see anything, but you'll also know it's not a hesitation). I had 2 or 3 hesitations during AFF (we used ripcords/spring loaded PCs) and they were never an issue, but I've seen more than one post here about people getting ready to cut away from these situations (seeming to clear the burble as they move towards doing EPs), and some of these posters didn't even seem aware of the possibility that the PC can get caught in the burble.. a bit worrying? I'm gonna keep on doing what my instructors told me like a good little newbie, but if anyone here has a problem with the above I'd be happy to take it to them to discuss. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

And that is probably the most sensible statement in this thread

It would be interesting to know how many members of the World Team did SL too Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

You can see from my jump #s that I'm a complete newbie. I really don't have a problem with newbies posting what they think about SL as long as they know what they are talking about ... and I can't honestly see that someone who has never done it is qualified to comment on it. You did both, I did both, there are instructors who teach both.. fine. These are informed opinions one way or the other, people who have a reference for comparing the two, whatever their preference (or lack of preference). But someone who's just done AFF and has never done a single SL jump... other than regurgitating what someone else has told them (possibly as a marketing ploy to make more money judging by some of the comments about some DZs here), how the heck are they qualified to comment on SL? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yes, these feelings are normal! One thing I was told a number of times is that a lot of it is in the mind (especially if you are an 'achiever" and don't like to fail...) I do think getting ready with plenty of time so you don't have to rush helps; going over your dive plan, all the way from climbout to landing, a number of times helps; practising EPs helps so you know that you know what to do. Tunnel will help, and may give you extra confidence. Should you have jumped again? Hard question to answer. There were times I felt the same as you and didn't; and there were times I pushed myself through. I have to say, on those ones, I always felt glad I had jumped afterwards. But - imo - if you only jump on "confident" days I suspect you will find those "confident" days become fewer and fewer. I found the best thing to build confidence was to jump - to reach the point where you look forward to the door opening rather than feel your heart lurch into your mouth when it does Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Congrats on the medal Ron Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

nice write-up! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

In my logbook, around jump 25, is written "noticed how cold it was in freefall" - i.e. the first time! I tend to still notice it if I do solos & it's really cold, but not in RW where I am still far too busy concentrating on levels and slots . Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Assuming that the person will want to continue the sport after the course for arguments sake. Given that, I wonder why anyone would want to do the S/L course at all, unless they dont want to ff and just stick with canopy work. In holland you have to have 25 FF jumps for your a licence, so you need to still make them after your sl course. What good is it that sl is cheaper per jump? Overall you pay way more to get to solo FF status. SL course incl 5 jumps is 420 euro over here, aff is 1250. Imo I paid 420 euro too much if i took the sl route. I know, I'm just a newbie, but I'd say -go SL if you never want to do FF and stick with canopy work str8 from the plane -do AFF if the above is not the case And after how many SL jumps are you able to freefall in Holland? Where I am it's 8, but I believe in some countries it's 5 so you can ff from jump 6. You are aware that static line progression is not a static line on every single jump, but just describes the progression where you start on SL? And where I am it is 25 parachute descents for an A, so SL jumps count (although 75 freefalls is required for a B). given what you said above, btw, I have to ask why you have 40 jumps and are still on student status...? I wouldn't normally ask as I know some people take longer than others, or like me do a number of solos before the required coach jumps etc, but in the context of your post, it seems a relevant question. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

We had a big class that day - 20 people or so, took a while to get everyone through harness training - but even so the basic course would have been way longer than 4-5 hours I think. As a matter of interest (this is thread drift, but it is my thread ) ... if you cover stuff on a "need to know" basis, do you follow up more closely with students who do end up coming back and becoming regulars? It seems to me with many FJCs there are "knowledge gaps" that may or may not be filled as the student comes back - even at the same DZ where different instructors take the FJC - possibly on the assumption that for most students it will end up being a once-off jump. I take your point entirely about detail overload though... I remember being exhausted at the end of class. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I did an SL FJC, dunno if that makes a difference. It took basically a full day (approx 8am to 5pm with the jumps the next morning), of which most was exit count and EPs, canopy control obviously, but the hazardous landings was fairly thorough. At that DZ there were quite a few buildings near the LZ, so maybe that's why? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Some thoughts arising from this thread in incidents http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2512839;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread When I did FJC and we did hazardous landings, we were taught the following for landing on a roof: - flare - PLF - if wind is strong enough to start dragging you, cut away your main (I realise none of this may help if you hit hard unexpectedly, like in a turn. ) Was wondering if the experienced jumpers have anything to add or other things to take into consideration? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

You're right of course, but the problem with that is that over the past several days, since he signed on, Stiffler has made so many insulting, borderline trolling posts in several threads, that if/when he ever does fill out a profile, I'd have a hard time believing whatever he puts in there. So much for credibility. After a while, we recognize the pattern: Artistcalledian, UntamedDOG, etc. Judging by this comment in the "Jumping with shades" thread, I would guess he has maybe a couple of AFF jumps: Not to mention the comment somewhere in this thread about the "old crusty" guys... unfortunately we know the path that others who have made similar comments have gone . Me, I'm happy to listen to the old crusty guys... I would like to survive to one day actually reach the number of jumps and years in the sport they have. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Funny, but that's a bit how I see your attitude about SL when you clearly have never made an SL jump, yet seem to think yourself qualified to pronounce on it being inferior. (btw, I am not a "yank" either) fwiw, my experience tallies with what the "yanks" say. I did end up paying for a packing course, because I wanted a few hours devoted to having someone teach me without distractions. But there were plenty of people willing to show me how to pack if I was prepared to fit it in around normal DZ activity, and I've seen a number of upjumpers and packers willingly go over to newbies who they can see struggling with a pack job and helping them out. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

The only help that might be needed "from the word go" on S/L is when you're under canopy, and you're not gonna have an instructor with you under canopy in either method. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

We were told to expect line twists on about 50% of our S/L jumps, and my experience tallied with that. Got it even on perfectly stable exits, I think it's something to do with the way the line jerks the d-bag on opening. So, you just get used to dealing with line twists... not a bad thing, they're not HP canopies and I don't think it took more than a few seconds to kick out of any of the ones I had. And the canopies do open softer than at terminal, but because of that they're also packed to open a bit faster - opening still feels gentler though. But certainly nowhere near as slow as opening a rig packed for terminal opening on a hop & pop Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I did both. I started off S/L, did it till first freefall, then I switched to AFF (took a week off work and banged it out). Both have benefits and both have drawbacks. For me, the "slow" start of S/L was good - I honestly don't know if I would have continued if I'd gone AFF from the start. But then I reached a point where it got "too" slow for me. I'm happy with the way I did it. But as the others have said, both get you to your A... fwiw, my experience is that people tend to recommend whatever they did themselves! One thing about S/L of course is that you can say (assuming you haven't done a tandem) is that you did your first jump out of a plane all on your own Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

My doc gave me the go-ahead to jump 4 months after I broke my ankles because the bones were healed, but the soft tissue still hurt and I waited another 2 months on the "see if you can run" advice. Very frustrating 2 months. When I thought I was ready I "practised" a few times jumping off some steps a couple of feet high onto hard ground (though our DZ is basically beach sand). I was sure I was ready, and I basically was - but even with two perfect tiptoe landings, my ankles hurt that night, enough to make me skip the next day when I had planned to jump again. It worries me a bit that you think you may have damaged cartilage or ligaments... if you have another bad landing, you'll not only be in pain but may worsen the injury. Many of us know how frustrating it is and to want to push earlier, but I honestly think it's better to wait. It's not safe to just assume you can PLF the next landing and get away with it... remember you hurt yourself the last time even though you PLF'd then. Listen to the experienced jumpers (not me, the others who answered) - the assumption that your next landing may be an outlanding under reserve may seem conservative, but that's also exactly just what your next jump might be. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Part of the function of the incidents forum is to learn from incidents. People with low jump numbers generally discover that they have a lot more to learn than they realised when they read some of the incidents. What, then, is wrong with asking questions that may prevent the same thing happening to them? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

People can debate all they want about what the statistics really are, but when that 1 person in however many thousands is one that you know, none of that matters. I jump, my husband doesn't. fwiw, my first jump was also only ever intended to be my only one, but the bug bit. I guess I'm "lucky" in the sense that my husband has about 50 military jumps under his belt, and did paragliding for 8 years (he stopped when too many of our friends ended up smashed against mountainsides; we both believe that paragliding is significantly more risky than skydiving, but I have no idea what the official relative stats are). So, my husband understands the risks in these type of sports, but he also understands the motivation that keeps you going in them. I broke a few bones early this year, and my husband was fully supportive of my decision to keep jumping after I healed. He knows how much the sport means to me. All I can say to you in this sense is: you are one of those rare non-jumping partners who seems to fully support your spouse in what she wants to do. You'll probably never really stop worrying, but I agree with other posters that sitting in on a FJC may help - as will simply being around the DZ and watching load after load of people landing safely with big smiles. And the longer she does it, and the more it becomes "normal" for both of you, that fear will abate to some extent. Kudos to you for not giving her ultimatums. I hope she knows how lucky she is.

Hey, a guy near here got killed playing golf recently - a tree fell on him. http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20061009082631161C369565 Being off work with a jumping injury meant everyone knew about it. I got one death wish comment, to which I just replied that if I wanted to kill myself, there must be plenty cheaper and easier ways to do it. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I broke both my ankles back in Feb, and got back in the air when the doc said i was ready and when i felt i had enough flexibility... 6 months later. The whole week before I was really nervous but the actual day... driving out to the DZ, getting my recurrency briefing, kitting up, walking out, getting in the plane, take-off, climb, jump run, door open, exit... i kept on waiting to get really scared but it just never happened. It just all felt "right" (not to say i wasn't nervous at all - of course I was - but not nearly enough to qualify as "scared"). btw, the exit, jump and landing all went perfectly Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.