Orange1

Thanks for the clarification - makes sense Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Another question, do we know if the leg strap that came loose was fastened properly? Even with a hanger, my understanding of the way they fasten is that it shouldn't? (I ask also because I've done jumps where we've taken grips on chest straps for exit...) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Was the 175 jump person in the base? It seems to me like very low jump #s to be in an 8-way hybrid? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

can i change the question.. when did skydiving patches come into fashion? was it about the same time that patches everywhere (like peace and happy face and "love" patches on jeans) became fashionable? maybe skydiving patches went out of fashion when patches in general went out of fashion?? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I don't mind students getting priority, I knew that was happening when I was a student and appreciated it. Also I jump at a DZ where wind can pick up during the day so the earlier the students go the more chance they have to actually jump. It's very seldom a case of being "bumped" as such for tandems, tandems (& AFF students) are on parallel manifest boards and the loads get juggled to give them priority but like some others have said there have also been times I've got the chance to jump when i wouldn't have if not for tandems. It can be irritating to be "low priority", but our guys generally try to keep everyone happy (doesn't always work, but they try), there have been times they've started up the second plane just to get fun jumpers up for example (helps that 2 of our DZOs are pilots). Also I think when we fun jumpers go out we expect to spend the day at the DZ, a lot of our tandem passengers are in town on holiday and have other things to get done. The only times it really irritates me are when the wind has come up too much for me to jump by the time I get on a load. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

With respect, you were the one who kept on going back to the fire scenario. My original concern was twofold: first that you say there are a million "what if" scenarios but don't seem prepared to think about the "what if you endanger other people by doing what you think is best for yourself" one; and possibly more importantly is that your earlier post implied you don't actually know what aircraft emergency procedures at your DZ are. I really suggest you talk to your instructors about these, and by all means bring up the plane on fire at 500' example and ask them about it. I haven't been around the sport very long and i have very low jump numbers. But i've been around long enough to know that when a lot of people with 1000s of jumps and many years in the sport all tend to say the same thing, that thing is usually right. And to know that sometimes what you think is the right thing isn't, and it's no shame to say "ok, I didn't think about that" and maybe change your thinking to something safer. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I think it is different, and it's different because in this instance your actions affect others too; a student on radio generally only has him/herself to worry about. Remster's point is a good one. If no-one else is getting out and the pilot is trying to get the plane down safely, having to deal with a moving CG at 500' is not optimal for anyone else. And what if you're in such a hurry to pull as you exit (as I imagine you would be at 500') and the canopy wraps around the tail? Then it's tickets for everyone. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Emergency procedures are developed for a reason. To help reduce confusion and increase the safety of ALL individuals involved. The attitude you're showing right now will likely get yourself as well as everybody else on the plane killed. If you don't know your DZ's procedures on aircraft emergencies, PLEASE talk to someone about them . What kris said. The pilot saying "get out" is NOT the time to be figuring out what to do. Just like with EPs, you should know what to do in a given situation. btw, do you know how long it takes your reserve to open? you may have more of a chance in a burning plane than bailing out at 500'. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Less than 1000', you pray. Hence the posts in the "what scares you most" thread. You should have covered emergency exits in your training (including whether to pull main or reserve depending on your altitude). I'm told it differs between DZs but we would not get out below 1000'. In discussions about this at my DZ we were told to hop'n'pop, grab risers immediately in case you need to avoid a canopy collision, and in the event of landing out to all try make it to the same spot, partly because there's a greater chance of someone being injured landing out and partly for easier accounting of everyone. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

This is also the bit that I am most nervous. Especially if it's soon after an incident involving a plane crash Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

what he said. And Tonto, excellent post... that maybe should be a sticky in the incidents forum? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I did a bit of both SL and AFF and they both have advantages and disadvantages, but I agree that distance is probably the swing factor here. Apart from anything else, think about the planning involved - 4 hours away, you're probably gonna need to overnight, and that is 8 hours total driving for each time you go jump! Half an hour away, you can even (depending on weather etc) go out for a jump or two even if you say have something else planned for the evening. Also... if you're new, even one or two jumps can be tiring - and then you have to face a 4-hr drive home? I remember a 2-hour drive home both tired and still buzzing from adrenaline - I don't think it was the safest drive I ever did I switched from a DZ 2 hours away to one half an hour away and just started getting way more jumps in for these types of reasons. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Maybe I should have phrased that "less care" rather than "less time". Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

That makes absolute sense for a particular jumper, but it doesn't necessarily explain why so many incidents are experienced jumpers rather than newbies? Unless say the # of D-licence jumpers far outweighs the # of As (as a very rough proxy)? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

First up I want to make clear that I fully believe it is important to be as current as you can! But I have become interested in what seems to be a recurring theme among many of the incident reports in the incidents forums: that the vast majority of them this year seem to be among highly current jumpers. We keep on hearing a focus on how important currency is for safety, and obviously it is, but... there's clearly something missing. Do people who are highly current get a false sense of safety ("I'm so current that I must be safe" - consciously or unconsciously thought) that is effectively complacency? Do they get tempted to push their boundaries more because they jump so often? Do they take less time with gear checks, etc than less current people (who maybe, because they know they are not very current, take more care with gear checks, dive plans, checking the LZ, etc)? We keep on hearing "why are so many people hurting themselves under fully functional canopies?" How about: "Why are so many highly current people hurting themselves under fully functional canopies?" Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Wow. That's quite a statement. I have to ask, how many people have you met who have done 50 jumps a year for 20 years? And is your statement based on jumping with all of them? btw, do you only jump with people where you think you can learn from their skills? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I wish I knew at 1000 what I know at 2000. I'm sure that trend will continue too. I wish I had enough jumps to know what I should have known way back when To the OP.. to echo what some of the other posters have said, it depends on who you find. I'm lucky to have found a number of people happy to jump with a low number jumper... just to give back to the sport. (One of them actually said to me, on one of my first fun FS jumps when I offered to pay her slot: "Pay it back by jumping with a newbie one day when you have a few hundred jumps") In my personal experience, I've found jumpers "respect" you when they see that you have respect for the sport and for being safe. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

It's an interesting question. Will start the bidding at 65 (not entirely clear but implied in this doc: http://www.para.co.za/pasa.php?file=docs/PASA Media Release 1 November 2005.htm ) It would appear that he now has a B licence, is over 80 and still jumping. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Just an obvious point, those statistics are going to depend on what time frame you are measuring over. & if you take all licenced jumpers, I'd guess a lot that have been in the sport for (?) 10-15 years + will come up SL. fwiw it may be country-dependent as well, it seems like many people in the US may start on tandems at the moment, but most of the licensed jumpers I know have never done a tandem (as a passenger/student, anyway!). Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Looks like my goals are to be updated - I've just been invited to take a slot that's become vacant on a 4-way team so looks like taking part at Nationals is on the agenda too

Well, I think it depends what type of "office job" you mean. I work in an office but in an environment that is constantly challenging and anything but routine - they did pyschometric testing a few years ago and, for what its worth, most of us are "type A", and many people do some kind of "non-typical" sport, mainly rock climbing, scuba diving, sea kayaking and mountain biking - & there is one other regular skydiver and a surprising # of people who have done at least one jump at some stage. I do think skydivers are "different" but for me it's not the "risk seeking" aspect of it, but more the continuous challenges that the sport throws up at you. I've read a number of books about mountain climbing and that seems to be the same thing that keeps those guys going back - in general, more "in spite of the risks" rather than "because of the risks". btw fwiw I absolutely love my job, as do most of my colleagues. So I would say our attraction for these kind of sports is more just an extension of our personalities rather than an outlet we are not able to get otherwise, and that we are all very lucky we have ended up in a situation where we are able to enjoy both our jobs as well as our chosen sports. I am sbolutely no pyschologist though, so all this is just my lay opinion. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

What little you know of the world, to be lucky you CAN have a mortgage, energy in your home, a car to put petrol in, access to telephones etc. When people are literally battling just to survive, not just bitching about how much it costs to own a home, any kind of sport, much less skydiving, just isn't an option. fwiw I know plenty about the US - my dad is a citizen and I have spent lots of time there. You missed the point of the post entirely. Do a search on the web, pref the World Bank website but wherever you choose and compare things like per capita income, telephone lines per 1000 people, road mileage per 1000 people, cars per 1000 people, doctors per 1000 people etc. Then do a dz search here and see how many DZs there are in the western industrialised world, vs how many there are in emerging markets. Then maybe you'll understand what I mean. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

just another newbie who broke some bones and not a doctor either, my surgeon said it couldn't hurt to take more calcium but he didn't think it necessary. He did however tell me to be careful to eat a healthy balanced diet while I was recovering. I did both and healed faster than he expected, but I think that has more to do with cats, but that is really a thread drift too far Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Interesting article, but I found this a bit "pat": People skydive even in countries which aren't rich and safety-obsessed, and in places like Bosnia where one might think they have been exposed to all the risk they would want in a lifetime. Personally I think you get more skydivers in places like the US simply because more people in rich countries can afford to jump! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

ya Spence, like 13 years, i don't think many jumpers of that age?? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.