Orange1

What is clear from georger's long post above , is that if Jo truly had no idea who Cooper was until Duane said what he supposedly said on his deathbed, then she must have been extremely cocooned. (Yes I know she has said things that seem to contradict her statement in this before as well.) It's amazing that she seems so aware of other major incidents and somehow missed one that seems to have made newspapers and TV for ages afterwards. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Now THAT - is a well constructed argument that the fits the "facts" as we know them. Don't forget there are still people who are convinced McCoy and Cooper were the same person. Duane could easily have been one of them... having travelled around on the trail to find the money like many others, explaining the various trips etc. (Or at least explaining all the stuff we know, as opposed to the stuff we are told but have no evidence for.) ltdiver's shoes post -- Makes me think of that snippet we got told about a shoe being found somewhere...not much else ever came of that? In cold conditions, is it true not having shoes would make someone much more susceptible to hypothemia than otherwise? I seem to recall this is right from a Discovery or similar show I saw on the subject a while ago (where they showed no headcovering and no shoes would cool the body down fastest) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

One of the stewardesses, Florence IIRC, was reported as having chronic nightmares as a result of the hijack. To me, that is more symptomatic of a traumatic experience than trying to cover something up? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

The theory about a conspiracy by crew will be unproveable unless anyone actually finds proof of Cooper's existence. It certainly explains why no body was ever found, though not why none of the bills other than the Ingrams' showed up - "laundering" in a foreign bank wouldn't explain this as the money would very likely make its way back to the US (as discussed before - though money spent in a dollarized or largely dollarized economy overseas might not). Whatever the true events, I have always been a bit sceptical about the ticket seller's description - simply because I cannot see a reason to remember someone who by all accounts was a very non-descript passenger - why would she have taken enough notice of just another customer to be able to offer a description? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Interesting you should mention that. I was in Louisiana in 1969 right after Hurricane Camille hit it hard. People in the remote coastal marsh areas who ignored warnings and stayed behind and drowned were very quickly attacked by hordes of crabs who stripped most of the flesh from their bones. At least that's what the locals told me. I imagine crawfish could do the same. 377 That's precisely what scavengers do! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

But were they like that in 1971? Everyone knows places that were wilderness back then and are everyone's weekend destination now. I agree with 377's take and I think it is GREAT to have someone who is actually local to the area rather than the rest of us poring over Google earth and postulating. And sure Cooper could have survived and walked out. Or he could have no-pulled on a hard-pull rig and gone in. Or he could have survived the jump and - like that base jumper i mentioned - got disoriented in the dark and didn't find his way out even though he "should" have. or or or. i reckon if he's not ex-military gone back to SEAsia, the crawfish got him. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

LOL - that is interesting! fwiw I don't know Paul Ash, though I do know one full-time and one part-time journalist for the Sunday Times pretty well. AFAIK, neither of them has any idea of my interest in this forum though obviously both know I am a skydiver. Coincidences aside, though, Snow are you aware that dz.com is actually started and run by ... a South African. Yes that's right - despite the assumption by many that it is fully American Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Definitely possible, but so against human nature as to be unlikely. People "throw money away" in gambling, bad investments, unwise marriages, etc but who among us has ever seen or even heard of someone literally throwing away a large sum of money other than perhaps a robber with cops in hot pursuit? Cooper wanted to "tip" Tina with some loot, (she declined) so if there was more cash than he could carry I think he'd have left it in the plane with the hope that Tina might be able to somehow get it rather than tossing it out the door. 377 i agree with 377's take on this, including re Tina (in fact I was about to type pretty much the same answer!). However, there is always the possibility that some of the money was accidentally lost on exit, or before exit, or during the jump... any of which could have resulted in it landing somwhere different to Cooper. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

QuoteWe only have two items from the plane. The door placard which may have left the plane at a very different time from Cooper's exit and the Tena Bar money which left with Cooper. /reply] The other point made previously about the door placard is that it is very light and could have blown around for miles. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

? I don't understand what you're saying Orange1. Have you looked at the roads around the Washougal River, say around Dougan Falls. I don't know if they were there in 1971, but you should look. It will surprise you. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=dougan+falls,+wa&sll=45.639127,-122.273369&sspn=0.036006,0.069265&ie=UTF8&ll=45.671644,-122.155867&spn=0.035986,0.069265&z=14 Remember, if Jerry Thomas can get in to a spot, then most anyone can get out of that spot. This notion that Jerry Thomas has extra powers compared to the average man, doesn't seem true. If so, maybe we need more description? Can he walk 20 miles in a line in that area, without hitting a road, and not needing a compass? Not. (edit) In that google map, I suspect a lot are dirt roads? but the point is the same. I was quoting someone else there. And getting into an area in daylight with maps etc may not be the same as getting out of it in the dark and bad weather. Remember that BASE jumper that died of hypothermia a while ago - the details were posted here - the exit out the valley should have been easy, but he got disorientated in the dark. I'm not claiming Jerry has special powers. But there are new angles being thrown up and I don't see why we shouldn't discuss them. They make a lot more sense than trying to track down someone who knows someone who hid the rifle that shot MLK. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

That sounds like a good point. Except some of the money must have remained intact for a long time to be found eventually. Would the theory be that the money that was found came apart from the rest during the jump? Snow - I am agnostic about whether Jerry has wasted years like Jo has. What I am excited about, is the fact of another viewpoint, another theory from someone who has been involved in the case for a long time. And without a load of CIA FBI MLK JFK cover-up conspiracy crap either, because (it sounds to me) this is someone who just wants to know who Cooper was without having an agenda to prove it was someone specific. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

If that's the case it adds to the probability of Cooper not in fact making it out alive? Even if he landed OK he may not have been able to work his way out? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

A veteran of the Korean War who also worked with Air America in Vietnam. Very possibly a smokejumper before and between the wars. After the hijacking he disappeared into either SE Asia or Africa with all his dollars. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, I don't know why you keep going on about the cigarette butts. If they found them now there is a very obvious chain of events that would happen. It would be something like this: - butts found - DNA sampling done - Duane rejected - Jo then rejects the DNA evidence on basis of chain of custody, or handling, or whatever other argument takes her fancy. (I could understand this argument in terms of finding DNA that "shouldn't" be there, but not in terms of not finding DNA. ) So, never mind about the butts because they won't make any difference (to your argument) anyway. Personally I'm more interested in finding out who does match some of the DNA samples from the tie.

I agree re Jo and her health issues. I don't deny she has serious issues, but they do seem to get very opportunistically raised here. As for Brad Pitt... hey, Brangelina had their baby next door remember and re: DING DING DING!!!! We have a winner! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Wasn't that McCoy's alibi? If this is so why didn't Larry just say so? I do wish Larry was still around (posting) here. Still, it's interesting to see some clear demons have been stirred up here. From Jo's reaction I understand why she tried to undermine Jerry's credibility before he got anywhere near here. It's not the first time she has tried this tactic of course (don't like the argument? attack the person - another good example is Galen Cook). I'm sure the rest of us will prefer to make up our own minds about who, indeed, is more credible. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Thanks Snow! pic attached

Georger says that Jo is "gullible". I'm not sure that is quite the word I would have used, but Jo's responses to some posts here - posts which are clearly not meant to be taken seriously but which she does - does point to a lack of judgement in accepting certain arguments/versions of the truth. Jo, I'm not going back now to check exactly when they were, but I know there were a number of times I saw you cast aspersions on Sluggo. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

"Has something else occurred (of which I am unaware)?" is the correct English. I believe that would be correct even in Ameriglish Sigh... I hope this is not the extent of my value-add to this forum anymore. Back at work now so much less time to do research for the forum! btw I presume 377's post back to georger about PAs being offlimits but vicious relentless attacks on logic, factspinning etc being OK ...was aimed at me. Didn't realise I was being "vicious". Relentless, yes. You guys are pretty sheltered, perhaps. Come sit in on a presentation being given by financial markets analyst (equities, fixed interest, economics, strategy, whatever) to a big client. You'll find out soon all about attacks on logic, factspinning etc... and what "vicious" can really be for those daring to put forward arguments without logical, consistent frameworks to back them up. I guess for those of you that are in academia... the to and fro of journal articles & their critiques is not quite as vicious (albeit perhaps better argued, and hopefully as relentless in logic). Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

377 as always the voice of reason! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

How many times is it you've said that now? I think he still lags Jo on threats to leave... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Wouldn't it be nice if we found out a spy satellite just happened to be orbiting over at the time...and we could zoom in just like they do in the movies (what was that Denzel Washington/Gene Hackman movie?) Then we could see exactly where the DZ was and hey, maybe even zoom in enough to see Cooper's face. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Resume? Do they want acting experience or hijack experience, do you suppose? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

This stuff about recreating what a person looks like younger (or as they age). Let's not get all blinded by the fact that "the computer" does it. A computer only does what people program it to do. The people who program this are most likely forensic artists, because age progression is part of their training. Why is it someone will believe "the computer" (probably programmed by a forensic artist or at least using the same methodology) and yet dispute the work of a forensic artist who made a sketch according to eyewitnesses? The English have some wonderful words. I believe the one best suited to all this is "poppycock". Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I don't know Nigel but there is a pic of a round, and for some reason some of these old fogies who have been aroud many years just put "1" or "2" down when they have hundreds or thousands of jumps. I'd guess Nigel has more than one jump Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.