Orange1

So basically Jo's answer to Sluggo's proposal is "no"? (what a surprise) I still don't get the rationale for any "test". Bruce, you mention the 727 airdrops... all that stuff had already been done by the time of the hijacking, so the hijacking (or purported hijacking) couldn't have been a dry run for any of that. Even with all your theories about the CIA, I still don't see it satisfactorily explained how this fits in, other than "they do nefarious secret stuff so why not this too"? No-one has satisfactorily explained the rationale of this yet, as far as I'm concerned. If it was a simple test to see how the airline etc responded, why choose that airline and that flight? What was it meant to prove? Who exactly was in on it and who wasn't? Why would the CIA be involved in something that would clearly be an FBI issue with no national security concerns? etc etc etc etc...?????? IIRC someone mentioned a court case between NWA and their insurer over this. How does that fit into a test? [Personally, I think some people have been watching too many "Prison Break" episodes, although the UK probably has the drop on government conspiracy themes. Heaven help us if anyone here starts watching BBC on a regular basis ] Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

..and the reason for keeping it all a secret afterwards?? what and who were they testing? NWA? the bank? the FBI? ATC? mucklow and schaffner? school fire drills are so that the people involved know what to do. it makes no sense to draw parallels, unless you believe that the same crew were at threat of a hijack. and why go to all the lengths to fake a jump, when that was an extremely rare form of hijacking? we've found a handful of skydiving hijackers out of literally hundreds and hundreds of hijackings. doesn't make sense for a "test" or "drill" type scenario. i could go on, but it is all a(nother) waste of time. in my opinion, that theory raises far more questions than answers. then again, i believe in evolution. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I stil don't get the logic.. what the reason for the fake hijack was? Then again, logic is never the preserve of conspiracy theorists. Or those of .... certain persuasions, but let me not bring speakers' corner type topics in here. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

If Archie thinks Snowmman or Sluggo are part of an "Intelligence Community" cover up of NO-JACK (NORJACK with no jumper) I believe he is mistaken. I have good reason to believe that both are just working folks like us with an interest in the case, nothing more exotic than that. Occam's razor doesn't like NO-JACK, but it is a fun theory and is good stuff for conspiracy buffs. 377 Fun to us maybe (which is exactly what I thought most would say here) but I assure you, this is real. People do feel as Archie feels/think. Archie's is part stance but part rational, looking at the evidence on a large scale. I argued details with Archie but it made no difference. He has an explanation for everything, a distorted explanation, but an explanation nonetheless. What strikes me on an intuitive level, is Archie may represent something of the same logic, which Cooper took into the hijacking, himself. Perhaps Archie would find himself a username and explain the logic behind the NO-JAK argument. I don't mean tying up loose ends in the evidence - I mean that I just don't understand what the rationale behind such a "test" or experiment or whatever you want to call it, would be. What would it be trying to prove, and to whom -- what would the goal of the exercise be? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

You didn't pay much attention to the discussion did you? You claimed it was a girl, but most or all of the rest of us couldn't even see enough detail to figure out if it was a boy or a girl. If you want to play games and obscure text or talk about "the" girl, fine, but here's a lesson for you: if you play games, don't expect anyone to take you seriously. Again - unless you are prepared to say who the child is and what the connection to Cooper (not Weber, but Cooper) is, how can you expect anyone to take this seriously? For all we know it is Chevron Man when he was a kid. Or Lee Harvey Oswald. Or Bob Dylan. Or Hilary Clinton. Or just some unfortunate child whose name no-one knows, who got abandoned by a father that they never saw again in their lives. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

You've posted this photo before, and we couldn't even agree on the gender of the child much less who it was. Rather than playing stupid "who what when" games, why don't you just STATE OUTRIGHT who you think the kid in the photo is and what connection to Cooper (not Weber, but COOPER) it had. This is getting too pathetic for words Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

This is a point that has been raised repeatedly here, yet Jo continues to insist it is up to the FBI to prove to her he wasn't Cooper (she has made countless posts to this effect). There are another, what, 200 million people we could ask them to "prove" were not Cooper, yet she still fails to see how ridiculous this assertion is and continues to say things like. Poor old Larry who went much further than he usually would to try find a Duane connection. Lack of fingerprints, lack of DNA, lack of anything except wild stories (and the mysterious disappearance of the one person who apparently "understood"... i think this is the first I saw that Jo had not been able to contact Udell on the numbe she was given.. yet she sees nothing strange in this the way I presume the rest of us do) Quade, I find it interesting you are posting more often now. A new voice of reason is welcome in 377's apparent general absence, although reason does not always seem welcome. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Take a [redacted] and look for a common thread. Find one - so, find two - hmm - find three and four and you say oops - how did they miss this - are these [factors]connected somehow? Keep digging and find more - then the puzzle starts to come together. [mystery] Solved? Far from it - maybe just more co-incidences. Then comes the point you say Whoa - enough of this! Then you start to document them - the more you search the more probable the answer is. Suddenly there is a piece of information infront of you that screams to be verified. -------------------------------- The only bit that was left out is this: And then you "make" the new information fit the others so that it is "verified", as has been done with every new piece along the way, conveniently ignoring the pieces that don't fit the theory and selectively using what you need. ...and voila: you have the general outline of probably every conspiracy theory you can think of. ----------------------------------- btw Jo, when you look for a sympathetic audience to claims that the FBI hasn't investigated every lead you give them on names, perhaps you shouldn't choose the same audience where you have said before on more than one occasion that you aren't even sure of what some of the names are that you listed, never mind exactly where or when they were - maybe - around. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yeah, but like the others it got a bit easier after a while. Just need to push the button hard enough, which i personally find easier with gloves on (because fingernails don't get in the way). Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Has anyone ever stated he spoke with an accent of any type? Maybe used a colloquialism like "soda" or "pop" as opposed to "Coke". http://popvssoda.com:2998/ He was described as having "no" accent by which we assume a "generic" American accent. I am no expert in this at all, the discussion on this a while ago seemed to take it he was from the midwest (I think) on account of the accent story. Like I said I can have no opinion on this (well I do actually, but with no "weight" behind it , my interpretation of "no" American accent clearly being different from people who live there - I actually would describe an east coast accent that way!). 377's point about "miss" may be of interest. Bruce, because to me it sounded like you were trying to belittle him by use of that word. I just wondered why, especially after you reintroduced the aspect of pyschology Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I think it's ridiculous that people with outlandish theories of their own call Carr's theory ridiculous. Anyway a bunch of us are clearly leaning towards at least some of the elements of Carr's theory - although i think "we" see smokejumper as more an interesting angle than cargo kicker perhaps? Those things aside, I am intrigued by Carr's "may have come from the East Coast" statement. Presumably he has good reason for saying that. Does anyone have any light to shed on why Larry said that? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Bruce, why do you keep on calling Cooper "Danny"? From the FBI link Quade posted, it appears Carr has modified his theory since he first came on these forums. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

What's unusual about that? Everyone knows he was a criminal. What is unusual about a thief coming back with stolen money? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I guess it depends on what point in the trip he would have asked for them. Once he made his intentions known, I think it's pretty safe to say he got whatever he wanted without paying for it. Jo is clearly convinced she knows who Cooper was and therefore feels she is able to state unequivocally all sorts of things. As per her post above. (yet she can't understand why people challenge her "facts".) As this thread continues to head towards a situation where it will be nothing but Jo posting her rantings and the odd other conspiracy theorist popping in, it is no wonder that posters with any insight and value to add to the real Cooper debate have been gradually dropping out. When it dies a quiet death, which it looks like it will soon, Quade at least will have one less hassle in his life!! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Bullsh*t, Jo. Are you really comparing yourself to Tina? Your "facts" and "statements" insofar as they can be said to be such, have no provable link to the DB Cooper case whatsoever. Tina was there, she was a witness. Her statements and others are available. You show me where the media has taken any direct witness statements and "twisted" and "turned" them etc. you see this is the basic difference between a real fact with a demonstrable connection to the case, and a flight of fancy. She wouldn't have to make any "claims" at all; all she would have to do is simply state what she remembers (and admit what she doesn't). Most people would accept that. The only people I could think of that wouldn't, in fact, are people like you with agendas to prove that a particular person was Cooper. Tina by her actions appears to have made it clear she wants to be left in peace. I do hope that will be respected by others who claim to have respect & understanding for witnesses. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

No usable prints in that whole crime scene is a little hard to buy - I thought they had 69 prints they ran but no matches were found? Hm - that may have been referring to a specific set of prints - let me go check - the discussion was also around the time Jo was trying to convince us that Duane had managed to change his prints on the FBI master database so it may even have referred to that. Edit with clarification to follow Edit as promised - seems it was the crime scene. AggieDave posted this in response to that Ckret quote: btw Georger, I seem to recall that not being AFIS quality doesn't mean the prints are not usable, just that they are not suitable for checking automatically against the database. Maybe someone who knows a bit more about it can chime in. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Some comments from Ckret during a 'conversation' with AggieDave (much missed here) & others last year: 1 June: June 19: Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Disagree. Jo would just come up with another conspiratorial reason to dismiss the evidence. Is anyone else finding the red even more irritating than all the bold and underlines? Schlitz, it was Snow (I think) who did some research into who smoked what back then! Raleigh seemed to have been a pretty common brand. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

We don't know that any prints are "missing". Ckret said there are a bunch of prints that they have not been able to match to anyone. Should Cooper ever surface, it seems there is a good chance they would be able to match the prints. The only thing "missing" is a viable suspect whose prints match some of those on the plane. Weber was excluded on this basis, and I seem to recall Gossett was as well. (Talking of which ...anyone heard any news on the Cook book?) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yes, probably. 1. Bruce, have you ever worked in an environment where you are faced with difficult clients daily and you have to be nice? This kind of thing was probably ingrained into Tina. 2. Your mom sounds great, but do you really think she would have said all that to someone she was scared might blow them up if he got angry? Or would she have been nice to him to make sure he stayed calm enough to not do anything stupid? so, yes, 3 is indeed the most probable. by the way you mentioned something about good-looking women bringing bibles to work... is it completely beyond your comprehension that a good-looking woman might be religious simply because of the way she was brought up? i went to a convent school in elementary school and have kept in touch with a number of the girls from there. a number of them are still practising, observant Catholics and some of them are really beautiful girls (well, women now). some of them rebelled against the church in their teenage years and then went back when they grew older, which is probably par for the course. it's pretty clear to me this is simply due to family background, reinforced by schooling, and nothing to do with abuse issues. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

sheesh... I don't agree wih Bruce's conclusions, but now apparently Jo knows all there is to know about Tina. How do you know this, Jo? To play devil's advocate, how sure can you be that Bruce is wrong about her? Do you know all the details of her childhood? How sure can you be that an air hostess in 1971 would have been a "young and innocent child"? Would you be so defensive of Tina if you weren't trying to get something out of her? The carnival sideshow just gets worse and worse here. Does anyone remember that this thread is actually about a man who hijacked an aeroplane? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

And any or all of those could stem from something other than sexual abuse, too. If you are going to blame sexual abuse every time you come across one of those "symptoms", well then you are sure to find many people everywhere who may have been abused. I do think you need to look at your "symptoms" in conjunction with other things. I do think a number of those could have been caused by controlling fathers - or submissive mothers, or both - without any hint of sexual abuse at all. And don't forget some of these symptoms (like excessive passivity, the lack of robust expression of opinions and decision making) were the way women were "supposed" to be for a long time. Emotional abuse, intentional or unintentional, could surely also be behind many of these, as could socialization in a particular community, etc etc. For the record, I don't believe that any of this has anything to do with DB Cooper whatsoever. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I thought Tina had already decided, it seems clear she wants to be left alone from all I can gather. I guess she just wants peace, too. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Quade speaks perfect sense, as does 377 when he says the best interviewer would be someone impartial. I think 377 himself would be a good choice! Very clearly Tina wants to hide away from the world. This is understandable in many respects (and goes to show how Cooper ended up doing long lasting damage to some of the people on the flight, not as "harmless" as some like to portray). Be that as it may: one of 2 things could happen: 1) Jo knows, herself has posted along those lines as have others, Tina does not want contact with the outside world. Tina could say anything and it would go through the "Jo filter" and come out as support of the Duane theory, with Jo knowing full well Tina would not contradict her because she would shut herself off from the world again. OR 2) Unlikely, but that Tina would go public. Unlikely only because she hasn't till now, I think. fwiw I do NOT believe that Tina by going public would be subject to what Jo claims to have gone through, for a very simple reason: Tina is a direct witness to something. Sure, years have gone by and memories can fade, but Tina as a witness can say "i remember this, i don't remember that" etc. It is not as if Tina will be trying to construct a house of cards or adding 2 + 2 and getting 22. In fact, should she ever consider going public, trying to scare her against that on these grounds would be very self-serving, imo. And happy Easter, and belated happy Passover, to all on the forum who celebrate them. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

nah, not really...that's the thing about classic music, it finds fans in new generations :) i think, if you care to scroll back through the thousands of posts in this thread, one of them actually does mention my age