Orange1

ok, more progress on the aircraft front: from http://www.macvsog.org/halo_extract.htm (complimentary to the Plaster book mentioned above btw) The date and location ties up with one of the 5 jumps mentioned above although the altitude is a bit lower. This on Blackbirds, also see link for more facts and pics... faster than a 727... http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/sr-71_blackbird.pl Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

(cough cough) couldn't not share this, even though the plan was scrapped. Also it was a low level insertion which i presume is static line? from the post posted on 10-10-2004 13:07 on http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/printthread.php?t=3514&pp=40 Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

a line i'm mentioning , just because someone (was it happythoughts?) thought Cooper might be Canadian: from http://import.book.store.bg/product/id-0451195086/sog-the-secret-wars-of-america-39-s-commandos-in-vietnam.html book might be fun - quite differing opinions at the end of the review Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

THIS is great... http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/airborne-jumps.htm A history of airborne jumps, including some formerly classified ones. 28 Nov 1970, Laos: Command & Control North (CCN), Special Operations Group (SOG), High Altitude Low Opening team (HALO). Formerly classified. Jumped from 17,000 to 21,000 feet with oxygen, between 0001-0300 hours. Objective to close the Ho Chi Minh trail to NVA by calling in air strikes. Individually extracted with V rings by helicopter. STABO ( Stabilized Tactical Airborne Operation). First men to receive combat stars on HALO wings There are identical descriptions for 4 more jumps, all with different teams, in various locations in the area between May and Oct 1971... so I guess we now know of 5 HALO night jumps in Asia in the months leading up to the Cooper hijacking. Incidentally the next HALO night jump recorded comes in 1983, i'm not sure whether this list is meant to be exhaustive, or whether there were others inbetween that have not yet been declassified. Edited to add: many, but not all, other entries have type of aircraft, these don't. No idea if hercs, 727s, what... though all the 5 jumps mentioned above had between 4 and 10 troopers. Would they use a huge plane for that? Altitude vs noise etc, anyone got any ideas??? 2nd edit: certainly backs up what the SOG guy on that TV show said. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

loads of photos and some anecdotes. if anyone has the time to go through everything and finds anything about night jumps especially in 1971, let the rest of us know pleae

There are video links here, i haven't checked them but I presume they are of the show. Appears it first aired in 2007. http://xhgc18.blogspot.com/2007/06/unsolved-crimes-usa-thief-who-escaped.html Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Yeah, saw the incidents forum BSBD. Yeah, it's hard when the witness remains anonymous to know how far you can trust them but it was an interesting thing to hear - it makes sense anyway but the timing he gave was interesting. Gonna see if any way of corroborating that. by the way Sam Kiley made an interesting point - trivial perhaps but maybe not: that if Cooper survived, he sure kept the secret well, and if that was the case then it makes sense to look for him in a profession that is good at keeping secrets... (eg SOG) although as I type that I am also reminded how few secrets there are these days PS Actually they are having a decent summer and not much mud around, a few hours of drizzle the whole week I was there which is probably a record low Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Hi all, I've been on Mud Island for the past week and interestingly enough caught some of a program on Cooper from an "Unsolved Crimes - USA" series on Sky. I don't think this has been discussed here? I have no idea if the program was old or new and I missed the first bit, but though I kept watching I didn't expect to hear anything new. I did, though. Following interviews with an FBI agent whose name I missed saying the plane had flown east of the flight path (ie over the Washougal); Jerry (showing how dense the undergrowth is and I can see why you would take so long to search there!!); Richard Tosaw; Russell Calame... the interesting bit came. The presenter, Sam Kiley spoke to a former SOG commando from Vietnam who wouldn't be identified and only consented to a phone interview. The 727 tests weren't mentioned, BUT Mr Anonymous said that Cooper's jump bore the hallmarks of a SOG operation and then he said: that just months before the Cooper hijack, SOG launched its first ever night jumps behind enemy lines -- and that these were out of jets. That was it - no names put forward, but speculation that Cooper was one of those guys. Just something else to throw into the pot. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, I've lost count now of how many times you've said this will be your "last post" and then you continue on as though nothing as happened. Why do you do it? Is it a threat? Do you like to see people "beg" to keep you around? Maybe i'm just a bit tired after an overnight flight in cattle class, but i had just about zero interest in anything on the last page or 2. i didn't even read most of the posts. this is going aorund in circles. Jo, if you stop playing games and post something tangible, someone somewhere might start believing you. Geroger and Jerry, i like you both, mostly, but this is really getting tired now. You both have filters... it's called your eyes. Look at who the poster is and..ignore the post! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but my understanding of US law is that it is legal for anyone to record a conversation in which they personally are taking part, without requiring consent of the other party? Edited to add: the above seems to be general but it is not in all states. http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

And do the women also get told to show respect to women, twardo? And do any of those women who need to be respected simply because of their gender... use their position as women to manipulate others more than they might otherwise be able to? ..well no of course you don't need to answer that. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

No, he wasn't. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

The little boy who cried wolf. No-one's listening anymore. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

That's because you have never skydived. Most of us have done many many jumps from inside the door of a plane. Don't forget gravity starts working on you the instant you leave the plane. Also if you can picture that most jumpers would dive not "leap" out maybe that might help you picture it. Failing that go to skydivingmovies.com and see what exits actually look like? And why do you think you can't spot from the door? To be honest Jo it makes a lot less sense to me that Cooper would be hanging on the steps outside the plane waiting for something he recognised. This is exactly what that other posters used to get so irritated about, people who don't have a clue about jumping expressing opinions on the actual jumping part. (Now don't the rest of you get in a huff about being whuffos, the other stuff is good) Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Um, my home team is the only team who have won every match they've played in the tournament to date.

hey 377... you gonna see some glum faces at work tomorrow... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, you say this like there is something wrong with this approach. Just like you reproached Cook for once looking at Duane and then settling on Gossett as his star suspect. Obviously they can't both be Cooper, but personally I like the investigative method: look at all the facts, look at all the suspects and then decide (in each's own opinion obviously) which suspects fit the facts the best. I think that method is much more likely to result in a breakthrough, than deciding in advance who one thinks Cooper was and then filtering all the evidence to suit one's case. oh and by the way i did (a while ago) read those unsolved mysteries threads, and the websleuths forum as well and i thought some of the evidence they presented in terms of Mayfield was pretty interesting. There is certainly a lot more than we have had the chance to see/analyse here. Of course some of the dz posters to this thread have been on those forums as well. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Of course, this discussion about turbulence all seems to back up at least part of the official FBI position - that wx was bad and would have reduced chances of survival. I'm not sure cloud suck was seen as one of the reasons, but certainly IF Cooper was sucked up the combination of hypoxia and hypothermia may well have been lethal if he was in the cell long enough. Here is one account of a paraglider who survived. If you do a google search you will find others not so lucky. (Bear in mind because of the differences in the sport, you are far more likely to find instances of paragliding pilots than skydivers getting caught up in thunder cells.) http://www.poweredparaglidingontario.com/weather/sucked_in.htm Here is a general wiki article on cloud suck: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_suck This sentence may be of interest: Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

It have a Cricket in my garden and he makes a lot of noise at night. Ckret, on the other hand, remains silent. BTW, the Indian engineers where I work are PISSED! They take Cricket very seriously and WI has ruined everything. 377 Cricket IS serious!!! Very srious. That Rankin guy was very lucky. Other people caught up under canopy in thunderstorms have not made it out alive. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Thanks Jerry. You're not gonna call me tho cos you don't have my # an d it is bedtime here :) one more thing before i go for the night, i think Georger is spot on re the role of turbulence not having been looked at properly? There seems to be this impression that Cooper kind of went out and hung around the stairs a while, that doesn't sound right to me even if we assume he did go down the stairs. Well maybe if he had never jumped he would have been clinging on, but most jumpers i know, only delay exits for (1) waiting for others in RW dive to set up exit (2) spot (3) other aircraft below (4) exit separation from other jumpers, etc, none of these apply in this case. If Cooper was experienced, he would have left thru the door and jumped. If he was on the stairs when turbulence hit, he fell off ...he was planning to anyway so no big deal. If smashed into the stairs or something, wouldn't the FBI have found some kind of evidence of that? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

377, bearing in mind i don't have a lot of jumps...but now that you mention it, it seems pretty damn obvious that walking down a flight of stairs sticking out into the air with the kind of relative wind you'd get from a jet, seems pretty dumb - if not physically impossible (for me anyway). I would indeed probably jump from the top if it was possible. Georger, I am not sure why you are so "anti" Mayfield. Physical stuff one thing, but I am not clear about why you say he does not fit the "profile" ,etc. Can you be a bit more explicit about what you mean? May or may not be of use, from Wiki: p.s. i doubt any of you are watching but the West Indies just pulled off a brilliant defeat of India in the World T20 cricket tournament. I love the way WI plays because even when it looks like all is lost, they never stop trying and this is one of a couple I have seen now where they snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and I love the way they are rewarded for their sportsmanship. Completely off topic, and most of you probably don't even know what cricket is , but hey ;) just thought i'd mention it. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

not batting for mayfield, but to point out the obvious: until we know exactly where cooper landed, we can't say with certainty that he could not have made a phone call within 1.5-2hrs of landing (sluggo's site says 2 hours) one thing i do agree with 377, getting an accomplice to make the call without knowledge of where the plane was would have been difficult - and remember the refuelling etc took a lot longer than expected so if the call was a prearranged time it would probably have been earlier. ...unless the paper bag contained a radio of some sort and that's what cooper was doing in the lavatory... so, now are there any links between teddy and anyone doing those 727 jumps in nam... or do we go with 377's view that it would have been a very open secret among skydivers and the military (and mayfield had both connections). edited to add: anyone know where Mayfield did his special forces duties? special forces was active in nam in 61-63, when acc to Sluggo he was in them. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

We had started to discuss Mayfield in the other thread - IIRC Awsee (Brenda) was the protagonist, but certain elements basically ran her out of town. There is a conspiracy theory on another site that reckons H "owed" him and that his alibi is substantively provided by H, i.e. that was he was Cooper and H covered for him. I am not sure I buy this, for the same reasons that I generally don't buy conspiracies (secrets come out) but also I am not aware of anything in H's background that would point to him being a "bad cop". I admit though I have not done an awful lot of research into this. I agree with 377 that he is still a "person of interest" and certainly I think a far better candidate than Weber. I'd love to know exactly what all the other stuff was that Ckret referred to in eliminating him as a suspect. Bruce, are you sure he is "scared" of you, or are you reading into that the same stuff Jo does when (in her opinion and her opinion only) Gerorger "reacts" to certain evidence? If I was Mayfield, given the background, I probably wouldn't be interested in talking to any reporters any more no matter who they were or what their angle was. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

aw gee i just took my car in today cos the computer was giving me warnings for things that weren't actually wrong... now i know i just needed to wait for the UFOs to pass on... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

It's not even a meaningful coincidence, in my opinion. A friend of mine went to Berlin on holiday in 1989 and arrived there the day before the wall came down. Applying the way you think about Duane, I would have to assume that he played a part in that event. Sometimes coincidences are just that. And here's a tip: if you actually go looking for coincidences, you find plenty. On such bases conspiracy theories multiply. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.