Orange1

i'd go along with that, not sure about the "never interviewed by the FBI" bit. did we ever get any feedback as to whether the FBI interviewed anyone outside the US? i still like the thesis that he and the dollars went back to SE Asia after the crime. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Right you are Jo. My mistake. 377 I have to laugh at how this bit has mutated. From a throwaway comment claimed to mean nothing, to "not proven" ., to "evidence" (although it seems to be typical Jo evidence i.e. not actually shown to be proving anything at all) to a whole long explanation and then another "i need to find" some connection... sigh. I've even lost the track as to whether Jo is trying to link this to Duane, or to Cooper. But either train of thought is irrelevant - however it certainly does act as yet another signpost that Jo has lost the plot completely. One upside of this is that she will be able to publish the definitive encyclopedia of american conspiracy theories at the end of this. Now, does anyone have any other insight into the DB Cooper case? Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

...while people are looking for similarities, spot any here...??!! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

So far not a single photo you have ever posted has been demonstrated to have anything remotely to do with the DB Cooper case, even those where you can actually make out faces in them. I'll open attachments if they seem to have some bearing, any bearing on the case. Your photos clearly don't qualify. btw I agree with Georger, the Oswald post was ludicrous. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

an 8000 year old mushroom? don't wanna be eating that one... the similarities, 377? could it be: or.. or (I mean... Smith? c'mon, like that's his real name? it's another FBI agent doing stuff on the side..!!) or uh... actually no, let's not go there but i think i know what you mean Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

cabbages and oranges... what is this, a greengrocers' forum?! Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

aw c'mon, it's only a little over 10 000 posts... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

With respect, Jo, how can I know what you mean if you don't say what you mean? Hard enough even in real life sometimes with non-verbal communication to aid. So no, I did not in fact "know what you meant". Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

yes, but we are trying to keep it ours. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Georger: This is exactly what I have said from get go when I didn't even know how far the Washougal was from the money find. BUT] It IS possible for more than 2 1/2 bundles placed in a paper sack thrown into the Columbia Sept of 1979 from the Portand Bridge in Vancouver and West of the PDX to wash to Tena's bar and leave 2 1/2 bundles intact. There you go again Jo...emphatically stating something as fact. Can you back up that statement please? Have you done the test, knowing that you are using the same type of paper sack? Bearing in mind you have already said you didn't see Duane either put anything in a sack or actually throw it in the river anyway. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

get hold of Kevin Bacon... Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

my elder child did some tunnel flying when she was 4

so to cut a long story short you think someone had to have put the money there; it didn't get there by falling out the sky and being dragged along by water currents. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

ALternatively, if you close your eyes you might fly into the tunnel wall Safe, looks like a post that needs a proper mulling over, which I promise to do, but it's bedtime here now. Nice to see you around. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

awesome. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jerry, look up JOES

That's fine, Bruce. The posts were not aimed "only" at you, and no generalisation ever fits everyone. It was interesting to me because it helped explain someone else i was puzzled over, and because it may fit at least one other person here. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

I need to recant everything I have said about conspiracy theories. I had a longish post with various links and quotes. When i saw what I had posted...most of it had vanished. Clearly, "they" are watching me and messed up my post. Below is what i salvaged. I'm not going back and recreating everything!! ------------ There are various "make your own conspiracy theory" websites. Here's one: http://www.newsgarden.org/...createconspiracy.htm fun article from salon.com: http://archive.salon.com/people/feature/2000/10/02/king_lennon/index.html interesting article from Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2004/02/01/conspiracies_so_vast/ Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

In order to believe Duane was doing that, don't you have to admit that at least a part of Jo's story isn't a complete fabrication? Here's my problem, I don't think I've ever seen any proof that the trip actually took place. Sure we have Jo's word, but if we just accept her word on that, then don't we also have to just accept her word on the rest of her story? I don't see a conflict here. (We have discussed before the idea that Duane took the trip as a treasure-hunter, etc, before.) I don't think Jo is fabricating everything she says. The problem I have, and I think that most people have, is the (il)logic she uses in connecting the dots. A series of random events do not need to have anything linking them. Neither do a trip to Washington, an old Sea-Tac plane ticket (date unverified), the fact that Duane was in the same prison as James Earl Ray, some child of unknown gender in an old photo, Chevron Man, etc etc. Give anyone with the "right" mindset 10 unrelated events, and they will be able to find a pattern. And if they can't find any evidence for the argument, well then, it must be an FBI cover-up. Countless conspiracy theories have been born this way. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Hope no-one minds this train of thought. But given the conspiratists out there I do think these provide useful context

More detail on the Goertzel study here, including some critique of the methodology: http://www.layscience.net/node/142 intro paragraph: There's no denying that conspiracies occur around the world on a daily basis. From Watergate to the epic tale of BCCI's "full service" bank, plotters and plotting are a fundamental part of human history, and are regularly investigated by researchers, journalists and other parties. Where these professionals seek the truth through science and dogged research, conspiracy theorists are more akin to religious fundamentalists, deciding on a pre-determined truth compatible with their world view, and then attempting to distort or ignore the evidence to rationalize it. in his critique of the study, which is summarised in the previous post, he also notes though that also and that is really the crux of it - and comes back to the point a number of us have made repeatedly, which is that real conspiracies don't stay secret for very long. If it exists, there is evidence; and if there is evidence, it is found. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Now, this seems to fit my scientist acquaintance pretty well actually. The above comes from a much longer article on http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/gw_rmd1.htm This bit also resonates: Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

here's something from Wiki. Psychological origins According to some psychologists, a person who believes in one conspiracy theory tends to believe in others; a person who does not believe in one conspiracy theory tends not to believe another. This may be caused by differences in the information upon which parties rely in formulating their conclusions. Psychologists believe that the search for meaning is common in conspiracism and the development of conspiracy theories, and may be powerful enough alone to lead to the first formulating of the idea. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part.[citation needed] They argue that even if the cabal is almost always perceived as hostile there is, often, still an element of reassurance in it, for conspiracy theorists, in part because it is more consoling to think that complications and upheaveals in human affairs, at least, are created by human beings rather than factors beyond human control. Belief in such a cabal is a device for reassuring oneself that certain occurrences are not random, but ordered by a human intelligence. This renders such occurrences comprehensible and potentially controllable. If a cabal can be implicated in a sequence of events, there is always the hope, however tenuous, of being able to break the cabal's power - or joining it and exercising some of that power oneself. Finally, belief in the power of such a cabal is an implicit assertion of human dignity - an often unconscious but necessary affirmation that man is not totally helpless, but is responsible, at least in some measure, for his own destiny. Some research carried out at the University of Kent, UK suggests people may be influenced by conspiracy theories without being aware that their attitudes have changed. After reading popular conspiracy theories about the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, participants in this study correctly estimated how much their peers' attitudes had changed, but significantly underestimated how much their own attitudes had changed to become more in favour of the conspiracy theories. The authors conclude that conspiracy theories may therefore have a 'hidden power' to influence people's beliefs. Projection Some historians have argued that there is an element of psychological projection in conspiracism. This projection, according to the argument, is manifested in the form of attribution of undesirable characteristics of the self to the conspirators. Richard Hofstadter, in his essay The Paranoid Style in American Politics, stated that: ...it is hard to resist the conclusion that this enemy is on many counts the projection of the self; both the ideal and the unacceptable aspects of the self are attributed to him. The enemy may be the cosmopolitan intellectual, but the paranoid will outdo him in the apparatus of scholarship... the Ku Klux Klan imitated Catholicism to the point of donning priestly vestments, developing an elaborate ritual and an equally elaborate hierarchy. The John Birch Society emulates Communist cells and quasi-secret operation through "front" groups, and preaches a ruthless prosecution of the ideological war along lines very similar to those it finds in the Communist enemy. Spokesmen of the various fundamentalist anti-Communist "crusades" openly express their admiration for the dedication and discipline the Communist cause calls forth. Hofstadter also noted that "sexual freedom" is a vice frequently attributed to the conspiracist's target group, noting that "very often the fantasies of true believers reveal strong sadomasochistic outlets, vividly expressed, for example, in the delight of anti-Masons with the cruelty of Masonic punishments." Epistemic bias It is possible that certain basic human epistemic biases are projected onto the material under scrutiny. According to one study humans apply a 'rule of thumb' by which we expect a significant event to have a significant cause. The study offered subjects four versions of events, in which a foreign president was (a) successfully assassinated, (b) wounded but survived, (c) survived with wounds but died of a heart attack at a later date, and (d) was unharmed. Subjects were significantly more likely to suspect conspiracy in the case of the 'major events' — in which the president died — than in the other cases, despite all other evidence available to them being equal. Another epistemic 'rule of thumb' that can be misapplied to a mystery involving other humans is cui bono? (who stands to gain?). This sensitivity to the hidden motives of other people may be an evolved and universal feature of human consciousness. However, this is also a valid rule of thumb for detectives to use when generating a list of suspects to investigate. Used in this way "Who had the motive, means and opportunity?" is a perfectly valid use of this rule of thumb. Clinical psychology For relatively rare individuals, an obsessive compulsion to believe, prove or re-tell a conspiracy theory may indicate one or more of several well-understood psychological conditions, and other hypothetical ones: paranoia, denial, schizophrenia, mean world syndrome. Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

Jo, I'm sorry to hear about your stroke. However, it seems unfair to blame it on a phone call from Jerry, even if it took place, and even if it was a trigger (I am not sure it can be but what do I know), but it is clear that a stroke results from chronic problems that have built up over time. from medicinenet.com: What causes a stroke? Blockage of an artery The blockage of an artery in the brain by a clot (thrombosis) is the most common cause of a stroke. The part of the brain that is supplied by the clotted blood vessel is then deprived of blood and oxygen. As a result of the deprived blood and oxygen, the cells of that part of the brain die. Typically, a clot forms in a small blood vessel within the brain that has been previously narrowed due to a variety of risk factors including: high blood pressure (hypertension), high cholesterol, diabetes, and smoking. Embolic stroke Another type of stroke may occur when a blood clot or a piece of atherosclerotic plaque (cholesterol and calcium deposits on the wall of the inside of the heart or artery) breaks loose, travels through open arteries, and lodges in an artery of the brain. When this happens, the flow of oxygen-rich blood to the brain is blocked and a stroke occurs. This type of stroke is referred to as an embolic stroke. For example, a blood clot might originally form in the heart chamber as a result of an irregular heart rhythm, such as occurs in atrial fibrillation. Usually, these clots remain attached to the inner lining of the heart, but occasionally they can break off, travel through the blood stream, form a plug (embolism) in a brain artery, and cause a stroke. An embolism can also originate in a large artery (for example, the carotid artery, a major artery in the neck that supplies blood to the brain) and then travel downstream to clog a small artery within the brain. Cerebral hemorrhage A cerebral hemorrhage occurs when a blood vessel in the brain ruptures and bleeds into the surrounding brain tissue. A cerebral hemorrhage (bleeding in the brain) can cause a stroke by depriving blood and oxygen to parts of the brain. Blood is also very irritating to the brain and can cause swelling of brain tissue (cerebral edema). Edema and the accumulation of blood from a cerebral hemorrhage increases pressure within the skull and causes further damage by squeezing the brain against the bony skull. Subarachnoid hemorrhage In a subarachnoid hemorrhage, blood accumulates in the space beneath the arachnoid membrane that lines the brain. The blood originates from an abnormal blood vessel that leaks or ruptures. Often this is from an aneurysm (an abnormal ballooning out of the wall of the vessel). Subarachnoid hemorrhages usually cause a sudden, severe headache and stiff neck. If not recognized and treated, major neurological consequences, such as coma, and brain death will occur. Vasculitis Another rare cause of stroke is vasculitis, a condition in which the blood vessels become inflamed. ------------------ similar stuff here http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/stroke/ds00150/dsection=causes Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

No. Not in a million years. Why? Because the government has a LOT of ways to train people for covert operations that don't involve the general public and give away methods. It's simply a ludicrous idea. Oh Quade, don't dash the fantasies of all the poor conspiracy theorists out there... Bruce, you talk about pyschiatry. I personally have for a while been interested in the mindset of people who are particularly susceptible to believing conspiracy theories; I have met one or two that otherwise seem like very intelligent, rational people. One in particular, a scientist by training to boot, is utterly convinced that the moon landing was, indeed, faked (the old flag fluttering story). Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.