BDashe

over 50% here in california- 9.8% state income tax, plus all the other fun little pay check deductions the government likes to throw in. Sales tax in SFO here is 8.5% as well, you want to stay in a hotel? that'll be 15.35% occupancy tax please. hosting a banquet? 8.5% sales tax on top of a 22% service charge as dictated by the unions... so fair, so so fair. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2009/03/02/mean-street-obama-taxing-the-wealthy-killing-america/ Makes sense to me! "And when making money gets a bad rap in society, the inclination of the “wealthy” is to pull way back." clicky anyone? So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

with regards to being world police- i agree, it isnt fair for us to be that guy, but somehow we are always called upon to do the dirty work. After the mess we got into (think blackhawk down) in Somalia, Clinton became gun shy and didn't want a repeat for political reasons- unpopularity, politicians doing what they do best, staying elected. Then in '94 little Rwanda (beautiful country btw) has a full blown genocide but clinton and the UN refuse to use the term genocide, which would trigger our immediate intervention. In fact, they pulled 90% of the UN troops out as they watched the country literally decimate itself- over 1/10 of the population was murdered. Our troops werent being engaged so we didn't do anything- rules of engagement. Because of that, over 1 million rwandans are dead, the country had the worst economy in the world immediately following, and there are still interahamwe (the killers) testing the border at congo where they live in exile. Now Clinton obviously views that as a huge mistake and dedicates quite a bit of his efforts over there... anyway, point being when we don't step in as world police everyone hates us for not (currently south Sudan), when we do step in everyone hates us if we dont fix it in 6 months or less (iraq, afghanistan, vietnam to a certain degree) because we then become "that evil occupying force." This is the first century with which wars of morality have occurred due to the information explosion, and no one knows what the right decision is- to act or not to act. edit: this is because the question is raised, is the collateral damage- the civilians caught in the middle, infrastructure destroyed, more instability- worth the intervention? those who oppose our involvement use those pictures as evidence of the evil empire, the others point to the people that now have freedom again, or life as close to what they previously knew as possible. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

That's not strictly true now is it? There's an awful lot of inherited wealth for a start, with lazy bastards just lounging around on their piles of cash. Someon at some point had to bust their @$$ to get that money. then some lucky bastard just got to play with it. I agree, trust funders can be D-bags... some can be cool though! Also (although not stated) - working hard does not always lead to wealth ... at least not for the worker! Not for the worker that makes a choice to just do the same job every day. if they do a good job, apply for a promotion, or take the years of experience they have and they can start tehir own company. The only person that can restrict a working class citizen is themself. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I was responding to a few different posters at once so if you didnt catch it- my bad? I hate liberals for their ridiculous robin hood style economics which often transfers into policies of handouts and nationalization. It is plain not fair and wasteful. I can't stand the right for the religious undertones and faith based policy- again meddling with my life and pushing BS policy on me. Especially when we are supposed to have freedom of religion, even if it is none at all. The reason I lean right is because I think all politicians are morons and the less they do to screw up my life the better. They are experts at gaining votes; not business, science, or the environment. Generally the right involves themselves with the least amount of our lives, so they are the lesser of two evils. These people make policy having NO CLUE what they are talking about or who they may effect. Then once it is passed, the genius $10 an hour worker who is assigned to enforce and regulated bogus policy is even more of a half wit. go hang out at the DMV... Me: minimal taxes minimal government strong military Pro choice pro legalizing the ganj (i dont even smoke) Pro stem cell dont care one way or the other on gay marriage so let em get married! Classify me to a party, cuz I cant. Maybe I'm libretarian I dont know, dont really care. Again, I hate all politicians equally, so the less they are in charge of the less damage they can do! So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

So bill, just a hypothetical- You're president on Sept. 11th. The nation is begging you to retaliate, we know where a lot of the bad guys are. What do you do? I will admit, there are many things I would have done differently than Bush/Cheney from the war standpoint and where our military presence was directed, ultimately however action needed to be taken. We absolutley had to go screw some peoples' universe up that were responsible for it. Or do you really just sit back and say "Thank you sir, may I please have another?" So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

from your other golden boy: In response to criticism of his signing the bill when President, Bill Clinton said in 2008: "I don't see that signing that bill had anything to do with the current crisis. Indeed, one of the things that has helped stabilize the current situation as much as it has is the purchase of Merrill Lynch by Bank of America, which was much smoother than it would have been if I hadn't signed that bill ... " So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

I think it's the Church, much more than that Jesus character, that is so hypocritical and ridiculous. Since there is little, if any, reliable evidence of Jesus' actual existence, it's probably not anything to get so excited about. First off I agree with you, but where the hell did you come up with that in this thread? Next, I apologize i didn't choose the countries that Mr. Shropshire approves of, though I have hit at least a couple countries on every continent except Antarctica and asia... ONE of em along the way must have your much needed approval. lastly, "The right wingers in here really have proved theemselves as narrow minded, instant gratification, un educated, brainwashed idiots." This statement alone proves your own uneducated and narrow minded position. Suck it lefties, I'm going to bed. ...and I still hate all politicians equally. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Free market? It has only failed when there has been insufficient regulation. Without that regulation, things get bad in a hurry, as history has demonstrated on more than one occasion, e.g. the Great Depression and FDR's New Deal, which brought us out of it. One thing is certain, deregulation was a bad idea, even when Clinton supported it. I think it has more to do with the left wanting to preserve positive liberty (freedom of opportunity), while the right is primarily concerned with negative liberty (property rights). Hmmm. self regulation was actually working great! ...til the Clinton administration decided to push for the subprime loans to help the lower class out. Ticking time bomb and look where we are! I still maintain from a fiscal standpoint, the left has theories that would make the cat in the hat giggle. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Ive spent roughly 10% of my life outside the country, and the fact that the shit i experienced while abroad which made me appreciate being in the USA so much is actually starting to happen here scares the living shit out of me. "Or perhaps the unthinkable...spending less! " EXACTLY! Cant the government take some of its own advice? look what corporate america and the citizens are doing right now- cutting back. The current administration is calling for america to be fiscally conservative while spending at a reckless rate, what the fuck? CUT IT OUT! Youre in debt, dont get in deeper debt! sometimes yeah, you gotta spend money to make money but jesus is this hypocritical and ridiculous! So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Thanks for clarifying that! No problem. I think they each should get a chance in a reeducation camp first. They could be subjected to such horrible tortures as Mathematics, Biology, and Civics until they see the error of their ways. and I would give the left lessons in paying your own way, hard work and i can spend my money how I want agreed, as well as logic, reason, and rationality. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

No shit... we're talking about the main revenue stream. Incidentally, it's the other forms of revenue where Obama will gain the cash he needs from the lower tax brackets, streams that arent as overt as income tax. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

There will also be shitloads of tax increases as i'm sure youre well aware. I actually agree with you on something! spending increases economic activity... but CONSUMER spending, not red tape covered debt filled government spending. again, consumer spending accounts for the majority of our economic activity, relying on the government doesnt exactly sound very much like a democracy... nor does it help that we have to pay china and others back somehow. Wait: Ah, yes... the magic wand. as for the "i got mine" theory, yes, that is partially true. But no one "gets theirs" without supplying thousands or millions that have needs by fulfilling those needs with goods, services, jobs, etc. our way of life is founded on the opportunity to "get yours" without the government taking over half of it away from you to piss away, and then borrow more from abroad to piss even more away. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

fell asleep in the first article, maybe you could dumb it down for me. the second article kind of confirms the dems "magic wand" theory: Ummm- by magic this happens? So Keynesian models generally either assume or try to explain rigid prices or wages. Rationalizing rigid prices is a difficult theoretical problem because, according to standard microeconomic theory, real supplies and demands should not change if all nominal prices rise or fall proportionally. But Keynesians believe that, because prices are somewhat rigid, fluctuations in any component of spending—consumption, investment, or government expenditures—cause output to fluctuate. If government spending increases, for example, and all other components of spending remain constant, then output will increase. Keynesian models of economic activity also include a so-called multiplier effect; that is, output increases by a multiple of the original change in spending that caused it. Thus, a ten-billion-dollar increase in government spending could cause total output to rise by fifteen billion dollars (a multiplier of 1.5) or by five billion (a multiplier of 0.5). Contrary to what many people believe, Keynesian analysis does not require that the multiplier exceed 1.0. For Keynesian economics to work, however, the multiplier must be greater than zero. this is just plain trash: Keynesians’ belief in aggressive government action to stabilize the economy is based on value judgments and on the beliefs that (a) macroeconomic fluctuations significantly reduce economic well-being and (b) the government is knowledgeable and capable enough to improve on the free market. DO you realize who runs our government? HA HA HA! This is EXACTLY my point, fro article 2: "But when it comes to the large issues with which I have concerned myself, nothing much rides on whether or not expectations are rational." So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

See what you don't know is that is what GITMO will be used for now. But it'll be cool cuz it is coming from Obama and deemed political and social cleansing. I just got my notice of transfer in the mail... So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

This is to expand/further my point on another thread from a couple days ago. Keep in mind 2006, where they are pulling income stats, was a great year here financially... (I forgot/never knew how to make links clicky!!!) http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123561551065378405.html here are what i find to be the most pertinent paragraphs if you dont feel like reading the whole article: he promised that households earning less than $250,000 won't see their taxes increased by "one single dime." ...But let's not stop at a 42% top rate; as a thought experiment, let's go all the way. A tax policy that confiscated 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning over $500,000 in 2006 would only have given Congress an extra $1.3 trillion in revenue. That's less than half the 2006 federal budget of $2.7 trillion and looks tiny compared to the more than $4 trillion Congress will spend in fiscal 2010. Even taking every taxable "dime" of everyone earning more than $75,000 in 2006 would have barely yielded enough to cover that $4 trillion... ...The bottom line is that Mr. Obama is selling the country on a 2% illusion. Unwinding the U.S. commitment in Iraq and allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire can't possibly pay for his agenda. Taxes on the not-so-rich will need to rise as well. Can someone please give me rational thought on how all this spending and taxing is actually going to help? when consumer exchanges make up over 2/3s of our economy- how is taking money from consumers going to help? If you run a busniness and you're near bankruptcy, do you go out and buy 3 times your normal amount of merchandise with money you dont have? Maybe my logic is actually illogical, please explain. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Seriously Bill? I'm not saying get rid of the government and have a tax free anarchy, though I figured someone would decide to push my post to such a ridiculous extreme. Yeah, we need a judicial system, police, infrastructure, a military and sure even a space program... But it still confounds me to think getting out of debt by getting in even deeper debt, all the while painting the rich entrepreneurs as bad for creating jobs and the infrastructure of the country, then punishing them with EVEN MORE TAXES... is going to work. I dont even make 6 figures and I think all that sh*t is abslutely the most illogical cr*p of all time. Furthermore, and more on topic, I'll repeat myself: yes; if americans have more money by not being taxed and subsequently having it wasted on terrible government programs designed by politicians that think they're f*cking robin hood and have no clue what makes the economy turn, more money would get injected back to the economy by the economic system our country is founded on- capitalism!!! Is that a concept that makes too much sense or something? Yeah, sure, some will get invested and not spent, but only to be spent or reinvested another day! That also increases our faith in the banks and allows them to do what they do without needing the government to give em hand outs. And if a company like GM is gonna fail, let em! I love my corvette but let's see how the UAW feels when their unsustainable demands come to fruition. Dont try and tell me we're going to get into over 3.5 trillion in debt by building our military, freeways that are absolutely necessary, NASA, education (which needs SERIOUS reform before investment anyway), and all major pre-existing gov't programs. We'll triple the debt by keeping the same stuff? Show me the math. Half of the ones we already have are bogus, why create more?! I mean come on, that whole way of thinking is horse sh*t. Who is ready to watch the US dollar try to do its best impression of Zimbabwean dollar? So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

It erroneously implies that min(f(x)) occurs at x=0. (In this case, f(x) = amount of money left in citizens' pockets after obligations and expenses are paid, including taxes, as a function of x, which is the tax rate.) Supporting such a conclusion requires a rigorous proof. Anytime taxes allow citizens to obtain a price discount on something with near universal demand by utilizing buying power obtained by purchasing a good or service as a collective, instead of as individuals, then paying taxes for that good or service results in more money in citizens' pockets. Nerd. he he he. We're not subsidizing anything that's helping everyone, or barely anyone as well. Government handouts to the poor don't do sh*t and it only benefits them. There will always be class differences, there will always be poor, old, rich, middle... the list goes on. No amount of taxing is going to change that, it just p*sses people off that made something of themselves cuz the money gets wasted on bullsh*t border fences, wars, failing programs that never work (universal health care- good luck!), corrupt officials, kick backs... Let everyone keep as much money as possible and more will get spent, i promise. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

You forgot to mention that private jets are f*cking awesome! Ha ha ha! If you have the means, why not? For now, I'll stick to my luck of the draw coach seats So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

It was full of pork, not earmarks. Many consider the distinction unimportant, but it makes the statement true, or as as true as any propaganda coming from the White House for the past several residents. It really depends on what the definintion of "is" is. Or clear evidence of WMDs. Or 'Read my lips" and "these aren't taxes, these are revenue enhancements." Yup! When it comes down to it, I like to refer to my buddy Winston Churchill: 'A nation trying to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket trying to lift himself up by the handle.' Doesn't get more simple or correct than that. I don't care how much you make, less tax = more $ in the citizens' pockets. I'm not bias, I hate all politicians equally. So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Yeah, and he has 2 first names so you know you can trust him. What kind of @sshole spells Chris with a "K" anyway? So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Huh... and all these names still give me a hard-on So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

exactly. Minority? The minority are the runners! I guarantee the pissers outnumber the joggers at least 2:1. This was hands down, my favorite day in san francisco. Already have friends with tickets flying in from around the country for it sooooo im not sure exactly how they'll be able to quell 100,000+ especially after word gets spread. a guy traded a joint for a beer right in front of a cop last year, i'll have to find the picture- how's that aura and culture gonna disappear overnight? My advice- buy stock in whoever owns camelbak, that's gonna be my angle, maybe even the group theme- camels in the sahara or something getting tossed off our humps! Who's comin with me?! So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Not nearly as much blame as the guy who signs the documents! Seals it for me. I said society not country... So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983

Dunno how I missed this thread! NOOOOOOOOOOOICE! I have an 01 z06. not quite 505 hp, but it's still a kick in the pants! vroom vroom... So there I was... Making friends and playing nice since 1983