Michele

And from what I can see, the only skydive thing at his store is a gift certificate for a tandem jump.... Can we stop the witchhunt already? It's woefully childish, and does nothing beneficial for either the victims of his crimes or for him. Nothing. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Bill, what religion were/are your parents? I recall reading somewhere that you went to a Catholic high school...but don't want to assume that was because your family is Catholic (I've known a Jew or two to go to catholic school because of the discipline and/or the education). Just curious. As for me, my values and morals came from both what my parents taught and modeled (which included myriad religous and spiritual examples), as well as tons of reading, learning, looking, considering, and inner examination of things. My values and morals have stayed fundamentally the same, but with age also comes wisdom (or so they say) and as I've grown older, I've tried to impliment some of those values a little bit more actively in my world. As Gandhi said "be the change you want to see in the world." And so I am trying. Failing often, but always trying. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

That's not exactly the point of the thread, though. Maybe start a new thread and keep those subjects bifurcated? The issue is that an 11 year old girl was observing what her President asked: and that is that the flag be flown at half mast for a period of time. When she did that, she was castigated by those "in charge" and removed from the honor of raising/lowering the flag. And that, frankly, is a shame and a half. Chris, tell her that yet another skydiver thinks she did it right, and is proud of her for not only being observant, but showing big respect to the flag and those for which it waves. Let her know I appreciate it, all right? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

After all other options have been tried and failed, if one is a real, honest danger to themselves or others, and hasn't/can't take the steps to go to the Dr...involuntary hospitalization is a last resort, last considered option. Alcoholism is not something I'm too familiar with; I've only a few casual acquaintances that are (as far as I know) alcoholic...and therefore, my input to their lives is minimial. I do, however, understand depression and suicide, so that's what I talk about...and, in general, mental illnesses. What people who don't suffer - and who are not close with someone who does suffer - a mental illness or brain chemistry imbalance understand is that rational thought - i.e. choices - is not always possible. A+B+C=D becomes a+x+1+Q=23...and it's not always apparent that it's going on. For example, most people who forget to pay a bill go ahead and pay it when they remember to...and, if necessary, pay the extra charges. In my world, when I'm properly medicated, that's exactly what I do. OTOH, there have been times in my life wherein I've forgotten to pay a bill, the lights get shut off, and it's all over, time to die. I'm so stupid that I can't even remember to pay the bill, I'm worthless and there is no excuse for me to continue living, I'm a waste of oxygen. Pretty extreme, but that's happened. I ended up at 23, instead of D, and that is a direct result of not being able to think along typical patterns. What's startling, is when I can see it happening, and can do nothing to stop the downward spiral...those are the times that I step back, re-evaluate medication, and either updose or change meds. That's happened several times since my diagnosis and beginning meds...but there have been times, too, where I don't see the slide coming until I'm on my ass below bottom. And it's a difficult, slow, painful crawl back up to the bottom. Imagine your life, Wendy, always having to start over. Relationships, marriages/boyfriends, work, career...always back at the beginning...never making forward progress. That's the life of an unmedicated, uncontrolled brain chemistry imbalanced person. The end comes fast and furious...and welcome. I don't know much about kleptomania, so I can't speak directly to this issue. But I can say that the cycle of medication controlled/off medication is very well understood, and not always a matter of choice. Sometimes it's a matter of not having the $$ to get the rx (as in my case). Sometimes it's a matter of getting better, and thinking (wrongly) that they're "cured" or "can do without." What society doesn't support is the concept that sometimes this isn't a willpower/character illness. It's a brain illness; like I said, along the lines of diabetes except a different organ. We, as part of society, need to learn more about it, so that it can be understood. Unlike Tom Cruise's thought, exercise, willpower, and better thinking cannot cure these sorts of illnesses. As a matter of fact, we'd never ask a diabetic if they were still using drugs; we'd not recommend more exercise, more willpower, "positive thinking" to get out of a chemical imbalance situation. The difficulty arises, I think, when people don't realize that ending at 23 is actually a rational thought process for someone whose illness affects the very way they form thoughts, and the absolute conclusions they take action on. I clearly remember feeling like there was nothing accomplished that day at work, so I didn't deserve to eat. WTF??? But that was 23 for me...suicide became an option when I realized I was so stupid that I couldn't even pay my bills. In this particular case, to suggest that someone deserves to be "6 feet under" or that would've been the action a particular person took, speaks less to his issue and more towards the attitude of society at large, of which we are all a part of. Additional witch hunting can be seen in a recent post, which questions this person's website. It's so very sad to see that; while I (and I am again repeating myself, over and over) don't excuse the behavior, I would urge again to sit back, look again at the situation, and show some compassion towards the person in question...because it may very well be that he has an uncontrolled brain imbalance that he really hasn't got any choice over and that leads him to 23 without even a thought of "is this right." And yes, I will continue to speak out, and offer my own personal life and insights...even though every time I do, I get nastygrams from people about how I don't know what I'm talking about. LOL, I wish I didn't. Wendy, again, complete respect for you. And I appreciate your POV, as well. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

But, Dr, and RL, don't you see? Society holds no distinction between the two - I've met Drs who don't understand the difference. As a result, people who have a chemical imbalance and are fighting a medical illness are castigated and hurt badly by misunderstanding and public perception. If it could be controlled (the behavior) then it becomes about choices; people who don't (thankfully) suffer from an untreated chemical, medical brain illness simply don't understand that it's not about a choice. What I think is happening here is that some folks are (rightly) feeling victimized. What is also going on is a public venting of anger and hurt. If this was a simple theft, with no complications, I would not have even written my first post. But it's not; however, the distinction is not being made at all with those who've been hurt. Additionally, add into the mix the (mis)perception that all skydivers are family, and it becomes exponentially more personal and "angry-fying." If his (still unidentified) illness was understood, I would sincerely hope that people would not take it so personally. Because of the "brotherhood" of skydiving - which, as stated earlier, is not as real as we'd like to perceive it to be - there is the additional angst and upset. Any violation of the unwritten "rules" of skydiving is a larger violation than it would be if someone were mugged or their homes ripped off. And when people are mad, they say things they regret (hopefully). HOWEVER: none of that takes into consideration the actual issues of mental illness, and disrupted thought patterns. Wendy, nothing but respect for you at all, but in earlier posts I think you're somewhat misinformed. If I were to get to "rock bottom" again, there's no guarantee I'd be alive to make it back up from there. Thankfully, my illness, while violent, is a self-violence rather than a homicidal one. There are people who have my illness and are homicidally violent. If they are allowed to get to "rock bottom" they might not survive it, either...and they may take others with them. To allow someone to get to rock bottom may indeed kill them. And that would suck. Tough love doesn't work on cancer, diabetes, or whooping cough...and it doesn't work with brain/chemical imbalances. Medical treatment does. In any event, I am truly sorry for those who were apparently victimized by him. I also, however, encourage people to sit back and think about things a bit more, and try to understand the illness which created this event. Think about what it would be like if YOU were he, or if your brother was afflicted with this. And see if you can't dredge up a tad more compassion; maybe act like the "family" skydiving is perceived to be. Lara, thank you for being his friend. Your posts are appreciated. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I'm sending my prayers along with the rest...and a big ol' Michele hug, too. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

A chiropractor is good at making the adjustments you might need after slamming your tailbone into the ground. I know mine was invaluable after my tailbone landing...which took about 3 months or so before I was comfortable sitting... Sorry you're hurting. Tailbone injuries suck. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hi, Judy. Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate it. And maybe I could've stated it better. What I'm trying to get at is that sometimes, we don't realize what our words can do to a person - both good and bad. I personally know someone who, having read of suicides reported on line, felt no sadness that the person in question was dead, but rather sat there and tried to figure out what the dead person had done right so he could succeed in his own suicide. I also personally know of someone who was on the edge, reached out because of something I had written here a year or so ago, and is now on the road to recovery. The words we say carry weight, and do not always have a pleasant outcome. That's all I'm trying to get at; a little bit less harsh, and a little more understanding, is all I'm looking for. And you know me well enough to know that yes, I feel strongly about mental illness and emotional health...but I'd hope you also know me well enough to know that when I say "this does not condone theft at all" (or whatever I said...) that I mean that, as well. Thoughts are expressed...revenge and wishing karma on people is also expressed. Maybe it's naive of me to wish that revenge and bad karma wishing wouln't happen, but I think that someone can express anger and outrage and not "go there." And yes, just to prevent people from saying "well, easy for you to say..." I've been the victim of physically violent crime, theft, and various other crimes. It's not fun...and learning to forgive - while at the same time not forgetting, or wishing they'd be set free - is a balance one strikes within themselves and can be difficult to maintain. To find that balance, then, is what I'm trying to encourage. Yes, of course, honor your feelings of violation and hurt and know that for a moment you were victimized...but also realize that there is someone (in this case) who is ill, and needs help. One does not negate the other; I am fully capable of hoping someone gets caught and punished appropriately...and in this case specifically, glad that he was caught, and hopefully the stolen items were returned to their rightful owners, and that he will be prosecuted as the law allows. I also hope that he is able to get the medical attention he needs, as well as the therapy he needs, and can recover that way as well as serve time or make restitution or whatever his sentence is. Of course you didn't, and I didn't really take it that way. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Judy, please point out where I said he should go free? Please tell me where I condone his behavior, and think it's acceptable? Please let me know where...'cause I clearly remember stating IN CAPS something totally opposite, and also saying I was sorry that folks were his victims. In regards to being his "keeper," no, there is no obligation to do so whatsoever. However, I've been on both sides of the coin - needing help, and helping those in need. I hope you never have to be in either one of those positions. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

What a horrible thread. Both because theft occurred (and seemingly quite a bit of it) and also because of the presence of a mental illness. ***I AM NOT CONDONING THE BEHAVIOR OF THEFT WHATSOEVER*** [QUOTE] Quote Mental illness is a strange thing, a lot of people take their meds for a while, then they think that since things are going fine they don't have to take them anymore. Then things like this happen. ________________________________________________________ From what I understand, that is the story of many people's life. Just like some ADD folks don't really want to take meds because it robs them of "the edge," and folks with schizophrenia don't like some of the drugs because it makes them stupid and fat. And, of course, so many people tell them that if they were just strong enough they could do it without drugs... As someone who has heard for years "just change your behavior" I'm here to let you know it isn't that simple. If it were that simple - if it were simply a matter of will power, if you will - then I'd never suffer another bout of depression, nor think perhaps the option of suicide is a good one. Meds suck. Taking a pill (or three) daily for the rest of our lives is so shitty. The cycle of meds/off meds is a well documented fact of life for those who have a chronic brain illness...it's just the way it goes. How many of you have ever gotten an anti-biotic, and, while dosing, thought "man, I feel better...I'll stop taking this medication. I don't need it any more..." and then stopped taking it? Often, when one does stop taking the full course of antibiotics, they will become more sick, with resistant strains of the original infection. Now, imagine having to take a pill for the rest of your life, even when you "feel" better...it often happens that people stop taking their psychotropic medication because they now think they're all right, along with the other issues Wendy mentioned. I've done it. I took my meds for a very long time, stopped them one day (impulsive behavior at it's best...), and slid into one of the very worst depressions I've ever experienced. It took a confrontation with my brother (and best friend) to bring me back to a point where I realized meds were needed...and then with him coming with me, I went to the Dr and got back onto medication. I wrote and posted an essay about the medication and depression...In My Dreams. Thank you, Squeak. Society condemns brain illnesses/mental illnesses. It's not at all understood, nor are explanations accepted and/or tolerated. Andrea Yeats killed her 5 children while in a psychotic break developed from Post Partum Depression. Yet, she was found guilty...not by reason of insanity, but just guilty. There are myriad stories of those who are mentally ill, or have a brain disease, that stop treatment - or never get it in the first place - and become ostracized by those who love them, let alone those who know them. Impluse resistence is a problem for OCD and/or kleptomania sufferers. If you read the description of the illness, you would see that there is tension/action/release, which is the classic cycle of OCD. I'm rambling... I guess all I really want to say is that if he was in treatment and stopped treatment, this behavior is nothing unexpected. Horrible, to be sure, and absolutely a violation of others' well being and material possessions...but it's also an illness. Show a bit of understanding, if you can. And realize that the comments you all have made reinforces a person's self-condemnation, and, in someone who's not "doing well" that can be the absolute worst thing they can hear. To Dex's friends: run an intervention. Get him some treatment, some help. Make sure those around him know that he has an illness, and enlist them in getting him some help, as well. Sometimes, as a true friend, you'll have to take some heat. It's all right - do it anyway. The heat will pass, I promise (I know this from both sides of the coin...). To those who had stuff stolen: I am sorry you were violated. Please, though, hate the sin, not the sinner. Understand a little bit more, forgive a little bit more, and try to help the situation rather than simply condemn it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Gee. Thanks. I really appreciate the information. Dammit. I won't sleep for weeks now. SwedishCelt, an orbweaver? Harmless? I think not; it's a spider!! As long as it remains outside, I can avoid it until it makes a web on my door...that's the boundary. the thing literally gives me shivers and crawly spine. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Outside my back door lives a really big spider. I haven't killed it, because I know it's "good" for the environment. But it's really big, ugly, and I know it wants to move into the house. I think it's more venemous than a black widow, able to leap 10 feet and teleport through windows and walls, and is drooling for me or the cats. OTOH, it might be a regular house spider with an overactive appetite. I've attached two photos for you all to understand the breadth of my dilemma...note it's web...gigantic. I just know it's going to spin a web ON my back door one day, and I'll walk right into it, and utterly freak out. Enjoy, if you can...and if you can't, realize at least you're not living with that right outside your door. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Morning, Bill. First, thanks for the editing. What I was referring to was not his comments, made to a public, non-posting figure (or two). What I was calling a potential PA was your comments directed towards him, a member of these boards. I am unclear as to what comments other than that which you might be referring to...can you link the post you quoted over to me in a pm, so I am clear? Thanks. I don't read all posts here, so I might've missed one. Additionally, I'm not a mod, so I'm not looking for things like PAs; if I see one, I'll point it out... No, not really. While I agree it's an untenable position, there is a duty, as a city worker, to the city, as I see it. And I can almost guarantee you (note the word "almost") that the emergency plans - which were not followed - called for the city buses to assist in the evac. plans. Had they been put into place 2 days before the storm hit, there would've been time for them to run a busload or two 100 miles away, and still evac their family...or, call for volunteers to drive them, or...I dunno. A very sad photo is all those buses underwater, when they could've been used to bring people to safety...that's a very evocative photo, and tells 1,000 words about the failures of the local government. So, with that comment, you clear up any questions that in fact you were speaking about a specific person...not me, but the poster in question. Hrm.... Yes, I agree, some people seem desperate to pin blame on people - from Bush down to Nagin - and imho there's plenty of that to go around. It's also something I can point out in your posts, and infer something about the way you think...but that's not fair, is it? It might be fun, it might be provocative, but it's just not fair. Something I've discovered along the way is that the whole picture is important, not one isolated person or fact. Once the entire picture is clear, only then can there be improvements in something overall. And I think absolutely everyone can agree that there needs to be improvements made in the entire picture, and not just in one person's behavior or actions. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Wow, Bill, that could be read as a PA....but I doubt you will read it that way. Blanco and Nagin are the root of the issue; had they heeded the warnings, there would've been more evacuations, and less trauma and death for those who remained. There were 2,000 buses (according to something I read) that were sitting there, hanging around...had they been mobilized, there would've been plenty of seats for some people. Additionally, from what I understand, Amtrack offered to take people on several trains leaving the area; again, some would have made it out. Had Nagin listened, had Blanco said "leave NOW" when the feds declared it a disaster area (2 days before the storm hit), then...well, there'd have been fewer people in the heart of the storm. Would the levee still have been breached? Sure, seeing as one did not depend on the others. But had mandatory evacs been issued early enough - and with a cat 4 heading towards NOLA, it being lower than sea level, that would not have been an unreasonable order - then there would've been less death. So tell me again; how does seeing faults in one's behavior imply fault in my own? I have an emergency plan I will follow, unlike those in NOLA, who wrote one, and then ignored it...And if seeing fault in someone else's behavior truly indicates fault in the viewer, then I'd suggest you take a look at some of the posts you've made. I don't think it does, so that's not a personal attack. LOL!! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

We're on our own power grid here in my city, but we went down, as well. I was wondering if I had forgotten to pay the power bill, but that wasn't it. Phew! LOL! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Christina, I am *so* glad you left...and all that stuff? It can be replaced. You, Al, and the animals can't. Blessed be, Christina... My prayers are still being sent for all the hurricane victims, especially those who belong to the sky family. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Brilliant. 'Twardo, you rock. Thanks. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Lauren, I did my best to figure out what on earth you posted this for. I couldn't do it. Then I realized you were very clear, and no additional commentary from you was needed. Simple promulgation of hate and vitriol...nothing more in depth than that. Absolutely. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

HEY! My father resembles that remark...he is very active in the local charities, and I along with him. Sean Penn is a twerp...no doubt. But still, not everyone is a bad guy in Hollywood. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Um, the banks are closed tomorrow because of a national holiday...Labor Day. No run on the banks closed them for tomorrow; all government, city and state and fed, will be closed. Just normal stuff. BTW, Hook, I got your point...and agree with it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Chad, thank you so very much for going where others flee. Thank you for making a difference to those people, and thank you for working your ass off to rescue people. May God always bless and protect you the same way you are doing for those in dire need. If you get out to Cali, let me know. I'll buy you a jump, and make it with you (I'm an unofficial anvil sistah). And then I'll buy you all the beer you can hold. Thank you, Chad, thank you. (And that goes the same for all the other rescuers and volunteers, too!) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Those are definitely part of what I've got. I only mentioned what I had increased...not the whole kits (you think I talk alot now...LOL!!). I've always got one handy in the car (I've been known to stop at accidents), and one in the GOOD bag at the house. So I'm set there. But thanks for the reminder! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Yes...it would be. No, I meant that never let the gas tank get below a certain level, or, if it does, fill up before returning home for the evening. Thanks. And that's not the full list; just the changes I've made in the last few days. I've managed to be in some serious earthquakes, several of them near the epicenter (within 5 miles of both the '94 and the '72 quakes). I'm prepared because I've been without everything for a time, and that sort of embeds itself into your memory. I was just thinking about the level of catastrophe, though. If an 8.5 hits (the SAF in my neighborhood is "capable" of that; but I suspect it could get bigger, or trigger smaller fault lines in the area, thus spreading the problem), it will be horrendously bad here in Los Angeles for quite some time. Not only will the damage be bad, there will be fires and looting and such. If the need comes to be alone (or with family) for a week or two, will I/we be able to make it? Yesterday, I wasn't sure. Today, I am. It's looking at the aftermath of Katrina, the sort of peril some people are in...in an earthquake, there will be no forewarning at all. Just blammo, the world shakes and we're in rubble. The problem of survival will be much larger than what we see in Katrina, because there will be no "evacuation" prior to the event. Which means 10,000,000 people in need, stressed, and panicking. Because of that, and because of my own personal beliefs, I'm not going to hope that my local government will be able to help; the police won't; fire won't. Neither will FEMA show for a time. All that's to say that if/when it comes, we are all on our own...and that's what I'm setting up for. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

No, not estoerically. That's another thread for another day. I live in an area that is prone to earthquakes and fire. Where I live is also a tsunami area, as well as a flood innundation area (should one of the dams in the area break). I am not willing to wait for the government to come save me; that's my job. So I was thinking about how I can do that, and wondering if my existing emergency plans were good enough. They weren't, so I changed them. Several things I've done are: ~Increased the amount of "minimum" gas always available in my vehicle. ~Increased the number of days' food, water, medications, and batteries I have available (for myself and my animals, as well as added some for family/neighbors). ~With my family, created a GOOD plan (Get Out of Dodge); a relay system of telephone numbers that are likely to work (out of state points) where one can call and leave messages for other family members. ~Checked on my father's preparedness, and increased his supplies. ~Packed up a GOOD bag and got it into the car; and another one in the house. Blankets, clothing (old, ratty stuff, but servicable), battery operated radio. ~A small strongbox with important papers stored inside, and a few precious photos, eaily carried. ~A kennel or travel box for all my cats. ~Maps. Both Thomas Guides for several counties surrounding me, and maps of my state and the western US (free from AAA). So I was wondering; how have you changed/increased your emergency preparedness? Have you even thought about what you might need during a natural disaster in your area? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Well, the search term "hofera" turns up some stuff in polish (I think)...but that may not be the name. Also, as I don't speak polish, I have no idea if they're discussing art. H. Grahofera? Might there be some alternate spellings, or perhaps the e is an I or something? Let me play around with stuff, and see if I can't figure out something for you. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~