Michele

Not anus as in rectal. Anu as in the tribe; I mayn't have pluralized it properly, thus the confusion. I'm clear that you don't see yourself as an anti-semite. I'm clear that you see yourself as anti-whiner. But I'd suggest you hang out with some jews; you'll find they are far less "whiney" than you believe...and a tad more dignified about things than you perceive. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

You're right; there have been other ethnicities that were brutalized - even in the last few years we've heard about them. As for why you don't like hearing about it, or why it annoys you to the extent that you state they "harp" about the holocaust, only you can answer that. I think that the Anus still harp on it; so do the American Indians. The Blacks, the Mexicans, the Chinese, the Mongolians, the Chechyns, and so on, and so on. Man has been brutal to man since time immemorial...so why only limit your disdain to the jews? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Good deal. And thanks for understanding where I'm coming from. As to the fighting, I wish it would stop. As to why it's being fought over, it's less the religious aspect from the Jewish perspective but rather a guarantee that the Holocaust will never happen again. Can't speak to the Muslim perspective of the Jews; none of the muslims I've asked has ever had a clear answer (and no, I don't mean an answer I agree with; just one which is cogent and based in reality). While there are some who scream "It's the HOLY Land, and it's OURS!!!" mostly I don't think it's considered in that respect by the majority of those in Israel and elsewhere. Agreed wholeheartedly. So....what to do about it? How to change the almost cellular hatred that is expressed by those who hate the Jews? How to show them that under the skin, all is the same; we all bleed red, we all worry about the next meal getting to the table whether it's kosher or not, and we all worry about how to clothe ourselves, be it leiderhosen or jeans. How to we bring people who are so volitile back to the basics of reality? Again, agreed. All the way back throughout the ages. It didn't start with judaism, nor with islam. it started waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when the Bear was worshipped, and clans fought each other because their clan totems were fighting, and/or needed to hunt in a new area (the totems, that is...). I am not terribly fond of organized religion for that reason. I also feel that religion serves a purpose - and it's not fighting - of allowing great groups of people to reach past the apparent and into the numinous. I am pretty spiritual, but I'll see the inside of a church maybe 4 times a year - and that is likely to be spread between synagogue and a catholic church when I go with friends. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Um, maybe I'm reading this wrong...but are you an antisemite? If so, I'd be curious as to why. If not, forgive me for thinking so from your post(s). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hrm. That's interesting...sad, and not unusual, but the first time I've seen nearly 5 minutes of it. The jews are vilified yet again, targeted yet again. I haven't other comments (at this time) except perhaps the guy in Austria would like this. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

We've had that report (or someone else, I can't recall) before. The interesting thing is that word has come out about the battle, and several suicide bombers were seen donning the bomb jackets. Generally, that would seem to indicate someone who they were protecting, or at the very least, that someone who blew himself up was not going to get captured. Leads one to think "high level" as the circumstances seem to be now. It will be interesting to hear what comes of this... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

LOL. Well, if you're unstable (and I don't think you are...) and if you're pissed (did the nastygram indicate angry or drunk? Both, btw, are changeable situations, not permanent in the least) it's the norm for this particular forum (hey, this is the place to debate even if you get angry...it's Speaker's Corner), and 'more than a little scary as an individual' sounds like a relatively apt term for most of the people I know who are honest with their feelings. So, well, it occurs to me that you're normal...whatever that means. And furthermore, those nastygram senders (and yes, I've had some, and people'd be surprised by who sent them...LOL) tend to hide behind the 'net, and spew hatred and vitriol both publicly (if you know how to read their posts) and privately (which is solved by blocking them in PMs.). Don't stop stating how you feel. Don't stop presenting your arguments and positions. No reason why you should be chased from any board for someone else's problems...none that I can see. And I, for one, have understood your points and positions. I may not agree with them - or I may, one never knows - but they are cogent and presented with less "shove down your throat-ness" than others I've seen, and with far less sarcasm and subtle jabs than I'm used to seeing here. Don't let someone who can't debate you publicly (because it risks too much for them; namely they can't take the heat they'd get) push you away from a thread you've contributed to...it makes no sense. They don't control you unless you let them...and you don't strike me as the sort who will let someone else tell you what to do; especially someone you don't know very well, and only through these boards. Makes no sense, you know? Ciels- Michele Edited to add: as I am now getting pm's from the same person RL referenced, I do believe I shall take my own advice, and utilize a great feature of this site... ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hrm. I am assuming that you haven't got a name for the dropzone, do you? Ask your cousin about that, and have her call back to the place she bought the certs to get the info. For the amount of money she might be out (if you don't even know what DZ, how can you get there?), a phone call would be worth it, it would seem. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

So, where were you going to jump? Do you know? Did they give you an address, at least? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Sinker is a stinker! Well, you all are just now finding out what I knew - what, two years ago? Go have a shot for me...all three of you! Sinker, give KatieBear a hug for me - and one for Chuck as well. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Four pages, and no-one's mentioned "Black House," the sequel to "The Talisman." Interesting continuation of the series, and does in fact tie into the rest of the books which have DT characters. And I loved "Eyes of the Dragon" too... Arlo, yes, it was a black Grand Torino, George Stark, the psychopomps... Good stuff...next time I've got some extra time, I think I need to revisit some old friends and some old creepy enemies. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I believe in miracles, as well. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Both good books, no doubt. I enjoyed them when I read them years ago...as a matter of fact, I should reread them again. Thanks for reminding me. Several classis authors which people don't seem to read much anymore are Theo. Drieser and Edith Wharton. Some of their books - Ethan Frome, for example - tell a story of humanity which we'd rather not always know about, but are good. Yes, I was the english geek in HS...I read that one for a book report, along with Sister Carrie and several of Wharton's works. A more "modern" writer is Margaret Atwood, who wrote "Crake and Oryx" and "The Handmaid's Tale", both very interesting commentary on future events. I want to get her "Blind Assassin" very much...but that will wait until after Christmas. There are lots and lots of things out there for people to read, in-depth or just plain entertaining. But don't assume King can't get down to the same level that others do; he does, it's just in clothing some people don't recognize, or in ways they aren't used to. That's one of the reasons he's such a great writer (imho). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I will be tuned in for that....'twould be a wonderful event; dinner with two of my favorite men... Rebirth, SK's writing changed, I'll give you that. He has been writing things with many, many levels, and when I was younger I didn't like that; I just wanted a creepy story. Now that I'm in a different place in my life, his writing has become far more indepth and appropos then simple stories like "Cujo" and "Pet Sematary". They delve into the basic nature of humans, and really tell stories that have a deeper message, not one which is "stay away from rabid dogs". Further, after his accident, they went farther into the good/bad, and are far less defined than his earlier works, leaving that to the reader to determine. He explores the grey areas, often in great detail. Some of his characters make it, some don't, some make it who we (the reader) wish they hadn't, and that's really good...it makes us think about what he's trying to say about our world, those in and out of it, and those forces which are unseen and yet felt on a regular basis. Fascinating man. Especially since he stopped writing for an audience (which is good in it's own right, btw), and started writing the stories that he wants to tell. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

"IT". The Barrens. Belch Higgins. Pennywise. The smoke lodge. Paul Bunyon. Gigantic birds. Orange puffballs. Chud. The Turtle. Balloons. Man, what a deliciously horrific book. I just re-read it (for something like the 5thish time), and really really enjoyed it. I still don't like fortune cookies, though... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

You're right, and I misspoke. My apologies. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

In one neighborhood I lived in, way back when I was a youngster and pretty poor, crime was rampant. I didn't have a gun (I couldn't afford it), and the cops were not as responsive as they are where I live now. One evening, in mid summer, as I was cooking dinner and watching the street (my apartment faced an intersection in the residential streets), I saw a little girl. She mustn't have been more than 7 - 8 at best. A car pulled over and the driver reached out, grabbed her hand, and tried to pull her in. She fought, bravely and hard, and screamed. I grabbed the frying pan (a big, heavy cast iron skillet), dinner flying over the floor, and bolted out of my home. Down the stairs I ran, hollering the entire time (and anyone who knows me knows I'm a somewhat larger woman, with a voice to match.). Into the street, across the street, and blam, the skillet crashed down on his hood. And then his windshield. I grabbed the little girl, yanked her hard enough to leave bruises on her (for which I will be eternally sorry...but it was better than the alternative), and raised the skillet with his hands/arm/shoulder in sight. He fled. The neighbor called the cops as this was going on, told them there was a kidnapping in progress, gave the plate and description. She even told them about me whacking his car. More than an hour later, the cops hadn't arrived. I decided to walk the little girl home, and wait for the cops. She needed to be with her mother, not me. And she needed to be inside, as it was getting dark. I called them again, from my home this time. I asked them to come out and at least take a report. At midnight, I recieve a call back from the new shift lieutenant. Can someone come and take a report now? was the question. Sure and why not; the dude in the car was probably in NV by that time, but what the hell. There is a "rest" of this story, including an arrest of the bad guy with a child he had raped and disfigured...but that isn't the point. The point is that a bad guy was doing a very bad thing, calls were made to the cops, and the only protection this child had was a woman with a frying pan. That is not something which should ever be counted on. Ever. I know that cops don't get there in time most of the time...and I further know that it is up to me to protect myself and those around me however I can until (and if) they come. I have been put on hold with 911...can you imagine someone breaking into your home and getting put on hold with the police? Not a pretty imagining... I am also pro-choice; as Johnrich said, it's the same principle. Personal freedom with personal responsibility. I advocate guns in the home with the proper teaching of handling to the owners, their children, and locking them up during parties and other social events...making them not available to any Tom, Dick and/or Harry that chooses to come to a party and go snooping. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Succinctly and aptly stated. And also the reason I don't bother writing my stories anymore...or even bother to be in here much at all. And for the record, Ccowden, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Having enough balls/courage/strength to be able to jump after a violent spinning mal on AFF 3...getting back into the plane, and then into the air, was one of the hardest things I've ever done, skydiving or not. And then, to land it standing up...well, that's the icing on the proverbial cake. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

(bear with me, I've not had enough coffee to be completely awake...) For me, the intolerance is a pattern (not just on this thread) where someone labels, namecalls, and does their best to provoke an argument with someone of a different opinion, and tends to be rather vitriolic in their method. Well, sure, that's what SC is about...but it can be done with some respect (I do it often, as do many here) and in a way which allows discussion rather than the abrupt shutting down of an expression of opinion. In this particular thread, calling someone psychotic and nuts, simply because they pray, is a pretty clear indication to me that there is intolerance present. Furthermore, I haven't seen the shutting down of *all* religious opinions, simply those with a christian flavor. I haven't seen it happen with those who are jews, or buddhist, or muslim (and yes, there are those posters here, too...and they express themselves also). I think it's the selective issue - and towards particular posters in specificity - that indicates to me intolerance. And so I question the intolerance - and to me, it's a specific hatred, but she protested that phrase - and so I asked about it. There is a poster here who is pretty clear that organized religion is not something they participate in, but for the most part, they don't call names and point fingers and imply significant mental illness because someone else believes other than they do. They state their position for themselves, and allow others to have different opinions. To me, that's tolerance. Maybe I'm using a different vocabulary than you, but to me, those are activists. That goes much farther than intolerance. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

And I love you both too. But your comment simply demonstrates that you are, er, ahem, erm, well, delusional...roflmfao. Hugs to your whole families - I miss both you guys very much. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

We do, he does, and I do separately. But thanks for the wishes. I guess what boggles me is that you are so intolerant - even though you don't think you are. Maybe that's just the human condition. Maybe that's just the way it is. But I think - only from reading your posts, mind you - that you are intelligent and somewhat less abrasive than you'd lead me to believe. I'm just wondering what it is about religion and spirituality that irks you so badly that you'll attack posters here and ridicule them...especially since you state that as long as they don't impact your life, then it's all good. Last I looked, those folks here don't exactly impact your life...so why the vitriol? I guess I'll just sit here and scratch my head, since you don't seem to want to explain and/or discuss it. It's all good, I just wish you could see the point of the question and have the grace to actually answer it. (Chris, thanks so much for the compliment; I daresay, however, that I've got a very, very long way to go before I'm the "real deal". But it's nice to think you think so of me.). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Agreed wholeheartedly. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I see your point completely. Thanks for that. So it's the ability to "overthrow" an existing government which creates the "war" aspect. Yes, I think I agree. And yes, what will this evolve into? I can see smuggling arms to those who are rioting...by whom, I'm not sure. but I can see it happening. I can also see that appeasement could occur, which will be one of the worst things I could imagine; that's permission to do it again next time someone's affronted somehow. Sticky wicket the french seem to be on. Poor people. I feel badly for the citizenry, you know? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

O.K., but why the hate? Why do you detest religion and spirituality so much? If someone you know has a deeply spiritual side, are they "psychotic" to you? And I'd also suggest you don't know the real meaning of the word psychotic. Spiritual and religious people are not psychotic, per se... Your own intolerance of religious people is rather offensive to me (although I'm not religious). It's the intolerance which bothers me, the willingness to believe that all people who believe in God in times of trouble don't believe during times of peace; that people who buy hookers will then get on their knees in church and think that they are not bad people (and there's a whole other discussion about sex and sex-for-sale et cetera...but it's not for this thread). My brother is not psychotic, nor is he nuts. His beliefs affect me, as his sister. His childrens' belief affect me as their auntie. He is in no way nuts, nor even close to it. Same with the other religious folks I know; their behavior impacts my life (and not to the worse, thank you), and there is one particular family I know of who show me more and more that love and familial relationships are not wasted efforts, and not in vain (that's in addition to my brother's family). So...again, I ask: what is your issue (and yes, I characterize it as hateful and intolerant) with religious people? Does that include those of a spiritual bent, too? And do you know the difference? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~