Michele

I try really hard to not let the media make my mind up for me...independent research is still the best way to determine things for oneself...including opposing views, should there be a decided lean one way or the other. I was thinking about this today, you know? The 6 day war was, well, 6 days. It had invading countries so that's war pretty clearly. But civil war? That's the difference. The US Civil war was both ideologically and economically based. The break-up of the USSR, without massive bloodshed or violence, was about ideological and economic issues, as well. From what I can see (and granted, I haven't studied wars too extensively), civil war tends to be a combination of both economic and ideological causes. If that's the case, as it was in the Crusades (if you look at that independently), the situation in France is bordering on civil war. There are a group of people who, for economic reasons, came to France...and brought an ideology with them. That ideology is being exploited, and fueled with the economic aspect (no jobs, poor housing). So at what point, do you think, does rioting become civil war? When the military comes in? Can't be, because it wasn't that way in LA during the 60's or the 90's. When war is declared? Then it already is, because the fatwahs have been issued. I'm just wondering about it...because it seems pretty weird to have two-three week riots in Europe (and I don't include the football season stuff in my assessment. LOL). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Congratulations! And another chili is brought into this world. Many happy, loving years to the four of you! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

What's the difference between 16 days of "civil unrest" or rioting, and civil war? I know that when there are riots that last a few days, that's pretty clear it's "only" a riot. But when does the line get crossed? When the military is called in? A time limit? Number of deaths? When it's religiously based rather than economically based? I just can't figure out when it changes from one to the other. Or does it? Anyone? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Well, see. I don't quite know what to say about your on-going hatred of any religious comment. I just don't get it. Any way you can clarify things for me? I mean, I'm not religious, but my brother is. And he is one of the most tolerant, patient, kind men I know. Same goes for someone else on these boards that you tend to mix it up with. Neither of them - although praying daily, and practicing their spiritual beliefs and walking the walk - are psychotic. I wonder why you think it's appropriate to label people as mentally ill who don't believe the same thing as you do? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oh, Keith, how sad I am and how sorry I am for your loss. First, though, know that Scooter is not far away; look inside your heart and you'll feel his purr again and again, forever. What a hard loss. Tron, a male cat I had for 19 years, passed away while I was bringing him into the vets office; literally as I removed him from the car, he passed. The vets did everything they could to revive him, but he was gone. They left the room and allowed me all the time I needed with my lovely Tronster Monster, to say good bye and I love you. After I had been there about 10 minutes, I noticed that his body had entered a significant rigor state. I kissed him one last time, and left his body...because his heart had joined mine. Rigor can happen that fast; I never would have thought it could, unless I had experienced it myself. Tron died from Congestive Heart Failure, even though his heart was all right; it was a buildup of fluid in the heart sac which prevented his heart from beating. I was torn apart; he was my buddy, nursing on my hand until the day he died... I don't know what to tell you, other than emergency vets are emergency vets; and I'd rather never use them (although I've had to, many times). There's something about going to the regular vet that I prefer... I don't know what happened to Scooter, but I do know that what happened is sad, and that you're hurting so badly right now. Whatever the result of your investigation, know that me and my (now)6 cats send our love and our purrs...and know also that Scooter is still living in your heart. PM me if you need to; my internet connection has been spotty at best, but I'll do my famdamnedest to get back to you ASAP. Much love, my friend. Much, much love. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I have a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, and yes, I've needed the skills exactly once. Poor teenager thought I'd make a good mugging victim. I left the sport about 5 years ago for personal reasons not related to the sport whatsoever. I am thinking about joining the local school in Shaolin Kung Fu, and they teach weapons and combat fighting as well. As for flexibility, yes, it does increase it (although perhaps not enough for your stated goal... . It's good for your body to be moving, however the exercise happens. Inner discipline? Yes...being able to quickly assess a situation and to move more comfortably through your life is a good thing. The benefit, imho, that martial arts training provides over a gym routine is that your mind is almost always actively thinking, assessing, judging, determining, and working somehow, whereas at a gym it isn't nearly as much involved in a treadmill and weight routine. I competed; it was a wonderful learning experience. I was relatively successful, and could have been moreso had I wanted to go that direction. I am a competitive person by nature, and this was a good direction to put that into rather than in other areas of life. I am definitely looking forward to next week when I go for the "demo" week...I expect that I will enjoy it enough to continue on indefinitely. I suggest you stop thinking about it, and for the price of a jump ticket, go take the demo classes at several different studios. That will give you a taste of what style you would like to pursue (Tae Kwon Do is very, very different from Shaolin Kung Fu...but it is fascinating to me nonetheless). If you like it, do it, you know? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

So, was this a work for hire? Or was it a previously waivered situation (as the DZ waiver I spoke of earlier)? Or something else? There is also the consideration that some shots are used to demonstrate skill, but are not for sale, and therefor it is not producing income but rather the potential for such income. I have a shot that is outstanding, but it was not waivered, nor taken in a previously waivered place. I can't sell that shot, but I perhaps can use it to demonstrate a technical skill. Is it questionable? Perhaps...but then again, perhaps not. Sorry you're looking for concrete answers to a very ambiguous situation...it's a little tough to answer them in a more concrete manner without understanding more of the situation. And BTW, there are many different opinions as to what to do; seek legal counsel if it is an issue, and if you want clear, legally sound reasoning. I'm just going off what I've learned as a by-product of reading and listening to other people who know far more than I. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

And I could say that about the men I've been seriously involved with... I see your point, Rebirth, but I also think that we need to work with the data we have. If the data shows that there are 10 confirmed cases of avian flu, and 5 people die, then the fatality stats on what is known is pretty clear. You can read it the way you do, and again, I see your point. But without testing everyone on the planet for DNA markers, we will never know the exact stats. So we work with what we have. BTW, 50% is pretty bad. I mean, if you and I get sick, one of us will die. But in thinking about it, 40% is bad, too. And 30%. And 25%. At 25%, in my immediate family, there will be a death. At 20%, there will be a death in my brother's family. Statistically, even if you lower the stats to 1/2 what they are right now (i.e. 50% down to 25%), that's still one gigantic number of people. So what then is an acceptable rate of fatality to you, that you think should be known prior to taking steps, and planning for the worst case scenario? At what fatality rate would you think, "hey, maybe something should be done..." ? At what point do you think one should start the planning, and the forethought? As for the other doom and gloom things I've mentioned, we took steps to ameliorate the Y2K thing. We did a good enough job (we as in humans, not a specific country...) that there were no serious problems. We can't really plan for earthquakes - not in terms of government mobility, et cetera. Nor can we plan for other unknown events (i.e. tsunamis, tornados, hurricanes, and so forth). But we can plan for this, and I think it's potentially a far worse problem then lots of people give it credit for being. I also am willing to place money on some of the same things being in place for a potential outbreak of Ebola, Marburg, smallpox, anthrax, and on and on. And I'm also willing to bet that in all cases, it's a "worst case scenario" that is being discussed, not things less than that. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

From what I understand, it already has, in the same way that it happened in France; there was rioting (although relatively little, from the one story I know about) as well as in Belgium. 12 nights of rioting is not rioting any more; it's beyond that, and it's time for the French Government to react to this in a way which is authorative, desicive, and determinate. OTOH, Chirac entertained the Lithuanian President while his country is being torn apart. Perhaps...but while this faction is muslim, I've seen "disenfranchised" people of all races and religions rioting...I've lived through it myself. What's happening in France is less a muslim thing exclusively and rather more a confluence of events, all meeting to provide a cauldron of anger which is, sadly, displayed in rampant violence. OTOH, I could be all wrong, and it is a muslim thing exclusively. I just don't recall it being that way here in Los Angeles when my city burned. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

From what I understand, most dropzones have already included in their initial waiver that you release any and all photos **not commissioned** (i.e. hired a video person to take shots of you) for them to use however they wish. That does not include special projects, where a waiver would need to be used to protect various people and their interests, but it does include any shots taken of you at, around, hanging about, walking through, skydiving, landing, and/or various other things which occur on the private property at the dz. If it is not already on the waiver, permission is still given by using the private property of the DZ in the course of their business and your participating in it, although it can be a bit more complicated. If that was the case, I'd cover myself by contacting the subject and getting a model release just because it would be a better bet for later on. But if someone is standing there taking shots on the landing area, and the DZ is both aware and o.k.s it, then the paragraph in the original waiver holds. That's my understanding of it, at least. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

It's horrendous pain coupled with potential complications (ear drum problems), and just altogether a bad, bad, bad idea. Take the week, drink lots of water and rest, and then go play next weekend...it's just not worth it if you are sick - let alone contemplating taking otc meds to handle symptoms. The sky will wait...sit it out. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

No, I undersand your point...and I think that there are many things that are spoken of that are not necessarily going to happen (this week, at least...). But maybe I'm much older than you, but I can recall lots of doom, gloom and rampant destruction of the planet in the last 20 years, including the Y2K bug, earthquakes which will take California back into the ocean, and on and on. At least, this one is based on a scientific issue, one that has been around for years...and one which has demonstrated itself to be one which can happen, and does with somewhat regular frequency. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

YOu're right...the vectors for human to human contagion have not been developed, and it could drastically change the virus which is currently at a 50% fatality ratio. The danger will be when it does go human to human. The pig is a great incubator for the disease mutation - and there are generally a lot of pigs where there are chickens (i.e a farm). Add to that once the mutation occurs and the avian population is reinfected with the new bug - and those birds who have them are migratory, such as geese, sparrows, gulls, and whatnot - then the real issue of contamination is present. It is a significant risk. H1N5 can be determined, and supportive pallitive care can be given - as long as the numbers of infected remain low. But once the transmutation goes to a human to human infection, the illness rate will be much higher; the treatment will not be any more effective than is currently available (tamaflu, and other symptom based treatments), and the deaths will be horrific. There is evidence of flu killing millions of people; why is that so hard to see, and realize that we are at risk? Sure, we're at risk of Marburg and Ebola (both insanely nasty virii). We are at risk for many other illnesses as well. I don't see it as a wag the dog scenario; rather, I see it as something which the CDC has been talking about for many years, and with the advent of the avian flu and potential on this particular virus to mutate and become a human-to-human spread, it's a real, tangible threat to the entire world. It will take - at a minimum - at least 6 months to isolate the virus, and then create an injection which will create immunity. In those 6 months, in today's "global" community, there will be hundreds of millions infected; if the fatality ratio is 50%...man, that's not something I want to see. Scare tactic? Avoidance tactic? Nah. I think that it's a timely issue, and something I've been interested in for several years - the potential that the Avian flu will become the next big flu pandemic. It's going to happen...it happened in my lifetime already (most people don't remember 67-68 and the Hong Kong flu, and yet it reached pandemic proportions). I would hope that we are working as best and as fast as we can to create a plan that will protect people from a potentially deadly illness. I've also learned, and as recently as Katrina was reminded, that the government can only do so much...the rest is up to me. And no, I don't own a cabin in the backwoods just yet...but I know someone who does. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I might have missed it above somewhere, but I was wondering; was it a Halloween Party? I suppose it doesn't matter...any kmore than it matters if people were willing to search. What's done is done. But I would hope that if I went in, my father would be treated with a lot more respect than was shown this family. Dad, being a whuffo, would not understand the immediacy of the merriment. He would be devastated by the apparent indifference which a 300 person party would show him...he might stay around for a beer or two, but a rave or costume party would tell him that all skydivers are selfish, inconsiderate, and callous to life and it's preciousness, even if that life was valuable to only one person. While we know that isn't true, I would hope that we would be able to put off fun and merry making for an evening, simply out of respect for those who have been bereaved. We, as a sport, do need to be aware of the face we show the public. We complain how badly we are treated when someone goes in, how bad the publicity can be; we admonish each other on these forums to watch what is said so that the media can't misquote or misuse our statements; and then something like this happens. The perception can be deadly. Irrespective of if I knew a person who went in while I was at a DZ, putting my own selfish desire to party with friends - not in remembrance of the person but a full on party - in front of showing respect to the family is not something I'd do. But hey, that's just me. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I know what you're saying, Linz, but this didn't seem to be a few people hanging around, having a drink or two, comforting each other and telling stories, you know? But hey, I wasn't there, and I don't know what happened. I can only go by what I'd do if in a similar situation. And as always, I can't speak for anyone else, just mine ownself... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Ditto to both GAVercetti and Matt... And my condolences to the bereaved. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

No-one's taking the sky away, and it will be there for you when you're done with school. So, if school is lame, suffer through it for two more years. Complete your degree. Have something like that in your pocket (I wish I had a degree...). The sky will wait, and you still have weekends and holidays to play in the blue. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Me either. But I've got a bottle of GlenFiddich sitting here. After a few shots, it doesn't matter if I like it or not... Or perhaps you were speaking of a scotsman, and I didn't realize it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Nope. Not funny at all. And a sad parody, as well. Frankly, I'd prefer if a lib is so frustrated to either make a skydive or talk it through, not get physical. Physical violence is never funny (and no, I never liked the Keystone Cops, or The Three Stooges, or any of that ilk). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

***Does good scotch count as drugs? [/quote Yes. And tonight, I'm having some (more than 1, less than 10). Neat. Or maybe a girlie foo-foo drink or 6. I have no plans on seeing the sober side of midnight. None at all. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Please don't take this the wrong way, but yes, people do. I know of someone who flew a mal which should've been cut. When asked later (not by me...but I was there) why he rode it in, he said "I couldn't afford a repack, and I might've lost the handles." I looked at him closely, but no, he wasn't joking. He quit the sport about a year later. Frankly, I think placing a bet on performance at your jump numbers (4) is pretty distracting. As for the accuracy claim, iirc the requirement is not as specific as the peas...rather, the requirements are more along the lines of "within 50 feet of a declared target" or something like that. To put pressure on yourself and your friend like that is potentially problematic. How about, instead of betting each other, you buy beer for the one who lands closest to the declared target? It's both cheaper and safer, and provides an outlet for the competitive spirit you seem to possess. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

My mind...my heart...my soul...I keep looking for it in the the place I lost it - the sky; I find them for brief moments (60 seconds at a time) and that's enough for me. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I've ridden the plane several times down...always because it didn't feel right, or I was too scared to actually leave the plane. I've never regretted it, either. This is a 100% sport; if you're not at 100%, due to fear or gear or just because, then don't leave the plane. I've also scratched off loads more times than I've ridden the plane down, usually because winds got squirrely and/or fear got hold of me. One time, at a boogie for new jumpers, I scratched off a load because the winds were marginal, but since they kept changing I just wasn't completely comfortable with it. Much to my surprise, most of my group scratched as well...in conversation later about it with the group leader person, it seems they were all concerned but were waiting for someone else to say something first. That taught me a huge lesson...never wait for someone else to say something first. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Considering I've been doing this stuff for about 5 months, they're all right. I look back on some of them, and think "what the hell possessed me to think that would be interesting? " LOL...but it's great fun. As soon as we can figure out the waiver issues, I'll have tons more skydiving stuff up there. Thanks, Jan...I do appreciate the compliment. Sinker, great talking to you last night; I hope your head feels better soon. Yes, go look and show Lori...you'll recognize at least 4 of the shots. Hugs to the whole effingham family, too...and a big kiss for Gabe and Mo. More as you can, you know? Back to getting the house clean...guests coming in from England on Monday, and this place is an absolute mess. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

How sweet are you? Ed, I miss you too...and I miss having time to write posts and discuss (!!) things with people. Several huge commitments have taken over my life at the moment, and couple that with a poor internet connection (the tech has no idea what is going on...and of course, neither do I), and that makes for little time to spend on here at the moment. It's been hectic in my world; my best friend has been very ill, and I've been taking care of her since (July??) summer. She's getting better, but her life is a priority, you know? And, I've been spending a ton of time working on my photography, as I got a great camera for my birthday in May; I've sold several skydiving shots, as well as a few others of a more "artistic" basis. If you have the time and inclination, check out TotallyPhotos.com, and run a search for Noni Michele...you can see some of the stuff I've been selling there (not the skydiving stuff too much yet; I've still not got that dialed in...). Add to that yet another cat who was to go to a new home but the adopting family changed their minds...so Abby is taking a lot of time too, getting her acclimated into my already established feline brood. As for me having a good day, I do plan on it...tomorrow. Doing some fall cleaning and errands (the light bill MUST be paid today, or I'll have no electricity to see if I've got an internet connection come Monday...), and if as much gets done as I've planned, then perhaps I can even skydive tomorrow. Man, that would be great. Very, very great. Like, heaven-great. Ed, I'll try to get a pm off to you later (with more details), if time permits. As for now, I've got some laundry to run, a kitchen to clean, and then off to do errands... Hugs to you... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~