Michele

I can see how you would. However, you managed to miss my point. Despite all the attempts AQ have made, only small attacks have succeeded...only limited loss of life has been incurred (although any loss of life is deplorable, make no mistake) whereas their stated intention is to hit, hit hard, kill as many as possible, and terrorize us. To that end, they are not getting better; they are failing miserably. And I'm damned glad. Frankly, I'm not too terrified. I'm not worried about the guy next to me in the supermarket, I'm not too concerned about the guy at the post office, and I haven't had too many qualms about the people I've shared an airplane with. And I'm average. I worry more about my friends driving to and from the DZ than I do about a terrorist attack... When seen from that perspective, they are failing, as I said. They are failing. And I think a whole lot of it has to do with the "war on terror," rather than good diplomacy or financial handouts and 'group therapy.' That's one side of things that I wanted to point out... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I got bit on the bottom by two dobermans when I was about 9...no scars, but blood and yucky shots and stuff for me, too. Man, I am sorry. Big vibes for you! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I think that's a fairly good explanation of the conspiracy theories and why they are believed. Jews have been blamed for pretty much everything on this planet, from famines to financial ruin. Likewise, scientists are blamed for many of the world's ills. What the truth is is that neither the jews nor the scientists are to blame for what happens. Sometimes, those who are at the top of the food chain screw the pooch, are caught unaware, are blindsided, and, despite their positions of power, they are simply human beings, and will have reactions similar to ours; lost, confused, angry, conciliatory, et cetera. One of the things, however, that I believe in most conspiracy theoriyadherents is a singular lack of responsibility, personal or otherwise, which allows someone to take those steps and change things they see as wrong. I've never met a conspiracy theorist who didn't blame everything wrong in their life as someone else's fault, and thus they escape the responsibility for themselves. Furthermore, they scream victim so loudly, and behave in that manner, that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy to some extent... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I would be curious to read the accounts of the terrorist attacks they include...as I am addressing most specifically AQ (as stated in my post title). I would also be curious as to see what number of fatalities are included, the type of terrorism, and the instigators of such. Without knowing all of those factors (or even most of them), I can't say anything about the graph attached. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Scooby, the best research can only turn up two workers at Odigo who were "warned." Of what, it is unclear. By whom, it is not released. And which workers, it has not been revealed. What I find interesting is that the warning was dismissed until after the attacks, which tells me that a widespread system of warning did not occur; rather, I'll bet a dollar that the warning was something to the effect of the warnings which were running around at the time, nebulous and uncertain, which would've said something to the effect of "watch your back tomorrow. I can't say any more, but you'll see what I mean." The fact that only 2 employees were sent the IM also indicates to me that it most probably isn't anything conspiratorial (as the OP is insinuating), but rather something that, while meriting investigation, turned up nothing of import. Very similar to the little boy who dreamed, on 9/10, that WWIII would start on 9/11. Or the Nostradamus "prophecy" which circulated the 'net in the weeks after 9/11. Or, even my own dream, which detailed the towers collapsing, bombings occurring, and a war starting, 180 days prior to 9/11. I blamed it on pizza right before bed... Funny thing about conspiracies; most of the time, when looked at with any sort of clarity, and with any ability to actually research things and use a bit of judgment, they tend to fall apart pretty quickly. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Well, after what happened in London today, I was thinking about if the global war on terror is working or not. I think it is. While we've not yet won, I think we (we in the global sense) have hindered their activities pretty well. 9/11 took roughly 3000 souls. Bali took roughly 225 souls. March 11, Madrid, took roughly 150 souls. London, 7/7, took *(at current count) less than 100 souls. Innumerable attacks foiled, such as the Shoebomber, the attack on the NY subways, and so on. It would seem to me that the effectiveness of the attacks are decreasing. While I am aware that AQ has a pattern of terrorist attacks, tending towards finishing what it starts (i.e. WTC '93), there also seems to be a lessening of their ability to carry out massive attacks which not only take lives, but disrupt the global economy (watch for the markets in Germay, and Europe, to recover in the next few weeks, rather than the months it took for 9/11), and strike terror (alter lifestyles in a significant way: "cowering under the bed," or whatever). I don't think we're anywhere near "winning"...that's a long way off. But we seem to be well on our way to having the impact of terror become less and less, thus foiling the terrorists' plan. OTOH, there hasn't been a successful attack on US soil since 9/11 with our packed population using the public transport systems, so I may be completely wrong; it's just an observation I made a bit ago. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

It doesn't take a whole lot of coordination for 6-7 suicide bombers to plot and plan...a whole lot less than those who acted on 9/11. It could be kept extremely quiet - again, only 6-7 people would've known about it... It utterly sucks. God be with those affected. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

My prayers and thoughts are with those affected, in London and outside of London. May God hold you in His hands, and guide your steps to safety. My love and vibes are sent to all who've experienced loss and fear today. Ah shit. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Done. And sending you some prayers, as well. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Because I have a rush project I've been working on. And because there would be a 4th of July picnic that didn't have desserts if I didn't make them...cheesecakes last night, apple cinnamon crumb cake and hot artichoke dip this morning (all right, so the dip isn't a dessert...). And then I have a charity event to go to with my father; we do it every year, and he's feeling up to it today, so we're off to take in the fireworks at the CBS studios... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

So was I...and I'll bet millions of people were thinking that, too. Still and all, it was a pretty neat accomplishment, and whatever the underlying reason, the outcome is a good one. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

By realizing that the siren call is an actual siren that goes "whopppppp, whoppppppp, wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh", and is attached to an ambulance which is coming to take you off the landing zone to the hospital (if you're lucky). The sky isn't going anywhere...it will be there when you have the skills to fly a smaller canopy. And you'll get to fly one more quickly if you don't have to take serious time off to recover from an accident... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Drat. Brain overload...it sucks, it's real, and it can be overcome. And you can overcome it - you already did, by passing Tandem #3 the second time. I don't think there are too many people who breeze through learning to skydive. Flying our bodies is a completely alien thing - our minds fight it, our bodies scream against it, and then - the switch comes on, and you accept that you're doing this insane and lovely thing called skydiving. It took me a while to learn; I failed several levels too. I've talked to my instructors and all of them failed levels. There's a wonderful thread somewhere on here about one of my favorite people who is an incredible skydiver; he tried to climb back into the plane a time or two (I'll see if I can't find the thread for you...). He stuck to it, like you are, and now he's a greatly accomplished skydiver. I know the same can be true for you. And yes, it's very expensive...just keep on giving it the go, and you'll get to the $18 per jump...and then the costs increase (buying gear, beer, and jumping enough...that depletes the pocket book...). You just keep on...after all, you could've failed it twice. Instead, it was only once, and you nailed it the second time 'round. I'll see if I can't find that thread for you...just to show you that this is NOT "natural", and that you can do it too... Edit to add thread link: SonnyChiba/Natural Skydivers Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Sorry, I misspoke (or wasn't clear). I was discussing the closure of the borders in that comment, not the issue of illegal anything. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Well, I've heard it on several news channels...not that it makes it true, but it's likely it is. And Bill, didn't you swear we were not under invasion in another thread? LOLOL!!! As for the issue, my question is not about these two, but how many have crossed without us arresting them, or without even knowing it? Mariopucha or whatever their name is has been known to coyote people over the border, and it's been suspected that they've brought in some terrorists or those with terrorist connections. At the moment, I'm torn about border closure...I see both sides equally, and both have valid and appropriate points. I hate it when I sit on the fence; it tends to make my bottom hurt. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Thanks, my friend. And yes, that landing was sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. I was pretty proud of myself. I couldn't believe I had to whack you to get you to see the green. And then blammo, we were in the sky. Jigs, good for you for getting back out into the sky. I am looking forward to hearing about your next two jumps, and then all about moving on to your license. You can do it, I've got no doubt. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I've "understood" those concepts for about 20 years... Sadly, I suppose I can then be counted as a hindrance. Because I know that the drugs I use keep me stable, and keep the floor under me. The rest is up to me; but the floor has to be there for me to begin to work from. I'd rather not have someone thinking I am a hindrance, but it's that sort of thought process - the calling someone a hindrance for using medication - which creates a stigma and an amazing unwillingness to move to a point that one takes the meds appropriately. I don't use the meds as an attention getting device, or as a crutch. I use them to stay alive. The same way someone with diabetes uses insulin to stay alive. As confidently as I did several years ago, and threw away my crutch. And found myself at such a place within months - depsite not wanting to, despite knowing that I wasn't sick anymore, despite it all - I was not simply contemplating suicide, but actively looking for ways to carry it out. To not recognize illness for what it is - illness - is to insist that someone would be well if they just thought differently, understood things differently, used more mantras and more positive thinking; spend hundreds of thousands on motivational seminars, gurus, and charlatans...to "exercise and use vitamins" as the beginning of this particular thread started. And it doesn't work; at least right now. So to stay alive, to perhaps be able to have children to teach them differently, to keep developing myself spiritually, mentally, and emotionally, to build a life I want- I will continue to be a "hindrance", as you say, and take my medication. For when I threw the cane away, I fell faster down the abyss than you could imagine. I wasn't even aware I was falling until I crashed onto the rocks below. And I know - from personal experience and experience with friends - that the abyss yawns ever so closely to those of us with a chemical imbalance. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Hi, Goose. I don't disagree with a thing you're saying; as a matter of fact, developing a spiritual understanding of the possibilities inherent in this universe is something I've been doing for a while. Agreement completely from this quarter. The only danger I see - and will continue to speak out against - is the difficulty of people who have a chronic illness, and grasp any excuse to not take medication. Any excuse. Did I say "any" ? When you're at the bottom, it's so much easier to fight it the way you know how - even though it doesn't work. You smile, you are optimistic, you have hope and faith. And then, when that doesn't work, you spiral downwards into the abyss...because it's just one more thing you've failed at, and you're a horrible person, a waste of oxygen and it's time to make this stop, forever, please God let this hurt stop... Taking meds puts the floor back under you. The descent has been stopped, chemically as it may be. Once the floor is under you, you can begin to learn new coping mechanisms, and begin to rebuild your life. But the floor must be there for you to begin to crawl (to use Rebecca's comment). It's that part of things that people don't realize. You can't buyild a life while you're tumbling away from it. Something must be done in the meantime to stop the tumbling...and then the reconstruction can begin. And the issue I take is with those who scream "don't take drugs! Exercise and use vitamins instead!!" or "do therapy!" or "I know the best new age thing...crystals and herbs and positive thinking and guru following," when the truth is it's incredibly dangerous to do so. The floor does not come, at this time, from that direction. Do I think some drugs are overprescribed? Absolutely. No doubt. And the people who use them "casually" don't even understand how they work. When I overhear someone saying "I had a bad day, so I took a prozac and now I feel better," I can't help but think that some significant aspect to this whole thing is missing. Like education. And I also think that anti-biotics are overprescribed, as well. There still is a stigma for taking psychotropic drugs. There still is a wide divide between those who use them and need them, and social acceptance. There was a thread here some time ago which used the term "admit to taking antiidepressants." Why admit to that? nothing wrong...unless society still uses that as a weapon against you. More recently, and on a current thread, the comment was made that using a diagnosis of anything less than normal (whatever that is...) can be used against you in court, in the workplace, and in your life. I've recently experienced first hand how the stigma of medication damages you. And I've watched someone else get fired because of his depression and talking about it to his boss. And in this thread, Anne commented about her battle with depression, and someone told her how courageous she was to be talking about it. I agree - it's damned courageous to be talking about it; but to have that opinion means that it's also dangerous to discuss it...which, honestly, it is. Yes, there is still a gigantic amount of work we need to do as a society. And we are barely crawling... Thanks for the discussion; it's always interesting to hear what people think. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Goose, I don't write off your thoughts as that. They have merit; indeed, some medical conditions can be addressed - and even prevented, in some cases - by diet, will, and whatnot. However, I asked a question above, and didn't seem to see the answer. What should we do in the mean time? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Probably not...but hope springing eternal and all that... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Drat on you, newsstand...I was drawing a parallel to fictional writings, and eaglewhatshisname didn't even pick up on it. Sigh... Oh well. The hoax is out. Too bad, 'cause I was hoping he'd read Dune and understand the subtle complexities and socio-political commentary it contains...I guess there's no hope for that now. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

LOL, you believe two wrongs make a right? Cool beans. Just checking it out. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oh. Which one? Actually, both movies weren't the best. The books are far more detailed and educational. You really should try to work your way through them. Fascinating series. I did see the movie Red Dawn. I thought that was good entertainment. Not too worried about the report you cited. After all, our (and everyone else's) military had plans to make sure that all nuclear weapons were deployed, too...and that didn't come true (yet). I think that is a far more likely scenario than the Illuminati and Utahan concentration camps, et cetera. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

' No. What I meant about things not making sense was your allusion about the Tri-Lateral Commission, the Illuminati, HAARP, Masonry, hegemony, black helicopters, concentration camps in Utah, and on and on. That stuff - like yours - makes no sense. Nope. Have you ever heard of Dune? Rather often, thanks. And I enjoy clear, rational thinking so much that man, I would wish it on everyone. Perhaps I will. You might want to read Dune, too. It's a good, fascinating series of books. If you have the attention span to get through all 6. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

No. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~