Michele

Not I.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Yes. Always not the best choice to make. All dems suck. Or, alternatively, all repubs suck. Or all of Clinton's actions were excellent. All Bush's choices were wrong. Blanket statements prevent looking at, understanding, and re-deciding for ones self where they stand on a particular topic. All Muslims are murdering assholes. That's a blanket statement. Is it correct? Not in the least. See how blanket statements do nothing either to forward or defend a position or argument? Blanket statements are wrong. Well, "they" have been beheading people of my color, perhaps of my religious beliefs, and sometimes of my country and gender. Does that make all muslims bad? No. Does it make the individual whose actions I speak of bad? Absolutely. See, I think it is. How long as Gitmo been there? How many people are being held there? How many of them have been murdered? When you look at it from that perspective, you'll see that "all" service men and women working at Gitmo are not murderers. Not all of them are disrespectful. Not all of them (add the comment here.). When one makes that assertation, then one does indeed make a blanket statement. I like you, too. And to me, your views are just as wrong as you perceive mine to be. As I said in another thread, how cool is it that we can sit here, typing away, and express ourselves like this? Way way cool... From what I understand, there was a single incident of the Q'ran being urinated on...and that indeed is not flushing it down a toilet. And even if it were flushed down the toilet, to me that is not a reason to go rioting and kill people. The point I was making with my comment is simply this: the media published a story which was beyond inaccurate, and that story cost people their lives. In thinking about that incident, I seem to recall some photos that were published in Britain about torture and abuse in Iraq. Those photos were shown to be false, too. In other words, reckless media reporting has cost people lives, and is not to be trusted completely without finding out the entire story (like the Britain situation I'm talking about.). Wrong again How am I wrong? Did that not occur? Or did you not hear about it? I'm not sure what you're calling wrong. Please clarify, and I'll try to answer it more in depth for you. Deal? I don't know if you read it in my earlier post, or if I wasn't clear, but I agree - that's a difficult thing to handle. I think there is a way to handle it, but I'm not sure what it is. Mikkey, you're right - it's the slippery slope. I haven't ever said differently...I just am not sure what would be a viable alternative. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I guess this means I won't be able to sell any porn I write; I'd want to use a pseudonym, but that doesn't seem to be legal anymore. Drat. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

And then, of course, the flushing of the Q'ran. Which, once brought to the news media, killed several (a dozen?) people during riots in Muslim countries. Which then was found to not have happened at all.... I also seem to recall several detainees who were deemed "innocent" or unchargeable, and were released. Brought back to their country, and were either rearrested or wounded (maybe killed) in subsequent battles with the US. And before some folks cry "well, they learned how to hate the US while they were at Gitmo," they were fighting with the same folks they had been fighting with when they were detained the first time. I have issues with the not charging and trying them, but I also understand some of the reasoning behind it. I further understand that some people will do things which are inappropriate and illegal. I refuse to blanket judge everyone for the actions of a few. Darius, if I did that, I'd hate all Iranians. There is a double standard, inasmuch as you want people to make their decisions about you based on you, not based on your country's behavior. I'd ask that you judge those individuals who are implicated, and not the entire whole, as you ask that those not judge you based on the actions of the Iranian government. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I do understand what you're saying. And I can't agree that we should make it unlawful. Why? Well, what's next, then? Perhaps banning the reading of a religious book in public? Only in their own house? Oh, wait, the SC yesterday said that even though it's our own house, they can take it away from us...I mean, religious symbols and books are offensive to some. So let's ban those next. Well, and how about banning mormonism? I recently spent some time in Utah, and found that they don't know how to make a margarita very well...and yet charged the same price as those I drink here in Los Angeles. That was offensive to me...and the whole no alchohol thing infringes upon my freedom, so why not ban the mormon's grasp upon the gorgeous state of Utah? Or perhaps banning certain publications - like Playboy or Hustler (the only ones I know; there are far worse ones which I don't know about), which some people think promote violence towards women. Those sorts of mags are offensive to some. And how about taking our guns away, because an unarmed public is a herd of sheep? If we can't fight back, then the takeover's on the way. My owning a weapon is offensive to some. Or maybe, we shouldn't allow women to vote any more. After all, it's offensive to some that we think independently and vote our minds... I had my first experience with "reverse bigotry" the other day. I was deeply offended, and absolutely angry about that. How about banning that particular racial group from that career field, because it offends me that she is allowed the same license as I am? Yes, I know those are farfetched examples. And if you'd asked me the other day if the SC would find in favor or emminent domain extending to private parties in the manner they did, I'd've said that's a far fetched example too. But it happened, you know? What would be the ramifications - in a long term, national sense - of banning the burning of the flag? I dunno, but I can't see that curtailing freedom expression because it offends and hurts some deeply (me included) is a wise or good thing at all. Basically, I see the Constitution not as a protection against me not being offended. I see it as protection against physical harm, interfering with my right to find my own happiness (but with no guarantee it'll show up), the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure (in my home and/or car), and so forth. It's more about "physical" (meaning bodily, or group of people's body) protection, rather than emotional protection. It's up to me, the person, to find my emotional happiness...not the government's responsibility to see that I'm free of offense and hurt. It's up to me to make sure that no flag in my possession is burned. It's up to me to earn a living, and to provide for myself; it's not up to my government. And the document which establishes that also establishes that other people have the identical rights as I do...meaning that if they want to burn a flag to protest something, then it's their right to do so in pursuit of their freedom of expression. I really understand where you're coming from, and I can't agree with it. It's all good, Rob. That's freedom of expression in action. Too cool.... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Rob, there are few here who think that burning the flag is acceptable, as far as I can tell. There are many who would be mightily offended about it, in fact (me included). But the Constitution says that we have the right to free speech - which includes freedom of expression (meaning protest, art work, writing, and any other aspect of expression which does not include vocality). If the Constitution says we (meaning everyone, not just select few) have the right to express something, however we choose, within legal means, that right extends to the burning of the flag. It is a form of expression. Would I do it? Oh hell no. Would I stand idly by and let another do it? Oh hell no again. But when it becomes illegal to express oneself by whatever lawful means is guaranteed by the Constitution, then I get worried. Have you ever heard the expression: I hate what you say, but I'll fight to the death to make sure you can say it? That is the crux of the matter. It's the freedom to say/express oneself - which includes other people saying things I don't agree with and which offends me deeply - that the flag, in part, represents. In the end, it is a symbol of lots of things - and what the flag stands for, I respect and honor deeply. Seeing a flag snap in the breeze of a late afternoon splashed against the brilliant blue sky, man, that's a cool sight; but what it means - the right to say what I think, the right of others to say what they think without fear of recrimination and punishment...that's what people are saying. And I respect your right, Rob, to be as angry and vocal about the flag burning, and to support whatever ammendment and/or resolution you choose. That's what freedom of expression is about. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Which would, of course explain quite a lot about your postings in general. You rectified it, but did not edit it. See, perhaps that's the difference between you and I. When I err, and I do (as I am human) and still have the opportunity to edit it, I do so. But I suppose you don't see that as anything you might consider. Again, a difference (rather large) between you and I. Should he have an issue with me, he can bring it up - either via pm or publicly. I dunno...who? What, and be called a cunt again? Or a tired old ho-bag? Or suggest I prostitue myself? Nah, I'd rather not. At least here, your personal (and really rather vile) personal attacks aren't allowed to stand. So until you have some sort of understanding on how to communicate without calling someone names, I'd really rather not pm with you. I'm all for discussing things. I have no interest in shelving pertinent topics and not learning nor looking at them from other positions and angles. People who read the posts will understand that about me. I made no suggestion to suppress things, nor to ignore them. Well, you might have some points here. However, calling this country - or any country, for that matter - "pos" or piece of shit, makes your argument tenuous at best. I have had my own fights to get medical care, being a single white woman who is not eligible for some of the benefits this country provides to other "classes" of people; perhaps, then, I see it rather differently from you simply because of that. As for suicide, I'm sorry John found himself at the bottom of the well and chose to end his life. That's gotta suck, and for your girlfriend's family I have sorrow and compassion. It had no part of the conversation except to demonstrate you knew someone once who had it. Sorta like saying "I have a black friend" or "I know a jew." Actually, you're correct; in my life, it's what I think that actually counts. As to what the muslims think, I wish they understood that the symbolism rather than the item is important. I wish people in general understood that; it's just some words printed on some paper, and bound very nicely. Same with the Bible, Talmud, Torah, and so forth. The concepts which they impart are what is important; the spirituality which wends it's way into someone's life and heart is what's important, not the item. Let's see if I can't explain it better for you. I am having a delectable dinner. Prime rib, the works. What matters is the sustenance I gain from it, not on which plate - delft china, Lalique crystal, or a paper plate - it's served. It's the substance, not the item. The prime rib, not the plate. Or how about another way: it's not the glass, it's the water in it which restores and refreshes. Heck, you don't even need a glass; just cup your hands, or bend down to the creek for the water. It doesn't matter what it comes in; it's simply an item which represents something, but is NOT that something. So no, I don't care about a book. Whatever's written inside, that's what counts. Books and flags are replaceable...the concepts, the ideology, that's not. As I said before, I find it abhorrent for someone to burn a flag. I find it far more abhorrent to append those freedoms to not allow someone to burn the flag. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Freethefly said, in post # 27 of this thread..... (emphasis added by me.) There is no way to read that other than what was said: his health is in shambles because of the AIDS virus. No interpretation needed at all. And then, in response to Astro in post #29, Freethefly said: And then ESBS52 said in post #34 ESBS52, your comment was incredibly insensitive and crude. If you're going to take a position, please at least read the posts in the thread you're responding to, so you know what you're talking about. Your subsequent "apology" was more of an excuse for your comment than an apology as well as a justification for making it, than an apology in the most "technical" sense of the word. And then, your professed "explanation" about how he never said he has AIDs was proclaimed over and over, and that you misread the comment is blatantly false. One would sincerely hope you read things a tad more carefully in the future, and remember also that there are people reading this who have AIDs and don't post; your comment shows true colors, in my opinion, especially when you talk about your girlfriend's brother who suicided because of AIDs related illnesses. Tacky? Absolutely. On to the topic at hand... Flag burning is abhorrent to me. Preventing someone from expressing themselves - and perhaps suffering the consequences of such expression - is far more abhorrent on a much larger level to me. It is symbolic of all I hold dear, and it hurts to see someone disrespect that. But in the end, it is only a symbol, easily replaced. The erosion of such expression is not so easily replaced. No-one can touch my love for my country, and all it stands for, as that respect is held in my heart and mind. They can only touch (or torch) the symbol of it; and that symbol doesn't matter. And yes, I hold the same opinion of burning the Q'ran, or the Bible (or Torah, Talmud, or any other holy book)...they are simply symbols; their truths are held in the spirit and the heart, and cannot be touched nor violated. And they can be easily replaced. For those who rant that all Republicans will back Bush on this, blanket statements are detrimental and injurious. Same with those who make blanket statements about Democrats. Doing so denies the complexity of someone's affiliation, and prevents anyone from really considering the other side of the argument and independently coming to their own conclusions. To do so, then, denies one an opportunity to learn from another about why they believe a certain way about a certain topic. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Thanks. Mike, it didn't make me jump - there were lots of planes in the sky, so I was seeing things flying around alot. But when I came home and checked the shots, was I ever so surprised to see the silhouette of the jet - and so clearly, too. I've got some others from last night, but this was by far the neatest shot. And yes, the orange moon was utterly amazing. Thanks for looking! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

No flowery post (it's too late tonight...). Just an amazing shot I got of the intense full moon that rose over the Hollywood Hills this evening. And to my surprise, there was one of those rare "you couldn't have planned that one" moments caught. I hope you all enjoy! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Prayers and vibes sent. PM me if you need to talk...and know that you and they are in my thoughts. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Or, we could make up songs. "Stir, stir, stir the pot; Roil up the stew! Posting and trolling and posting and trolling, That is what you do!!!" (ps...with all due respect to the original song... Row row row your boat Gently down the stream Merrily, merrily merrily merrily Life is but a dream) Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oh man, Jer. I am sorry - very sorry - to hear of this. Those poor children, losing their mother. How simply awful for them. And yes, I agree - capital murder. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

If the quality of pm's you've been sending Sparky are on the level of the one you sent me - I completely understand why you were blocked. I would urge you to seek some anger management help sooner rather than later. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Rather true, Dave. But hey, why not...it's not like any of us who know Sparky think that EBS is worth his time...and a silly peurile post like this won't change anyone's mind. It's speaker's corner, where most argument is futile, and loud whining is the norm. I am playing an even smaller violin than you. Matter of fact, this whole thing has bored me enough to quell my insomnia. YAY!!! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Oy. Man, some of the stuff I've read that's come from you can be easily confused with a paranoid/paranoid schizophrenic's thought process. You know who I mean, those folks who seem normal until you start talking with them, and they caution you against the black helicopters and ramble about hegemony and HAARP and stuff. Just, man, oy. Oy gevalt. Darius, I understand your point about the Iranian issue, but I don't think it's as prevelent as you might think. I don't care, one way or another, and not one person I know actually cares, either. Sinker, I've not got milk and cookies, but I've had to put my bowl of curry down more than once as I choked back laughter. You're right... Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Dad's back from the Dr...no hospitalization at this time. Which is very, very good news. Seems that the issue of the "increasing pain" is Dad is not taking the percocet as the Dr. told him. Meaning, the rx is for 2 pills every 4 hours, and Dad's taking 1 every 6-8 hours. The problem isn't that he's not taking enough, it's that without the meds, it's really painful to take a deep breath and cough. Which will prevent pneumonia...so while Dad doesn't like the meds, he has to take them so he can breathe properly and avoid the serious complication of pneumonia, which at the least would require hospitalization... So Dad's promised to take 2 every 4 hours, as rx'd. His Dr. is very cool - joked around with Dad and gave me permission to "smack your father around as often as needed if he stops taking his meds again...consider them Dr.'s orders..." and his Dr. stressed no waiting if there is any additional issues, like shortness of breath, or heavyness in the chest, lightheadedness, et cetera. I was to be called immediately and get him into the closest ER. Coming from the Dr., that carries enough weight that Dad might just possibly listen to me. So the Father's Day picnic in the backyard is on... Thanks for the prayers and vibes. They help, no doubt...and I appreciate more than I can say. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Not to stir the pot... I think my first clue was when he used the term "Hymie town..." and it's just progressed from there. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

She's really doing well. She slept right through the quake. I'll get an update on her thread soon - I didn't realize people wanted to know. She's really doing well. Still standoffish, but walking around the house and getting more and more comfortable with me and the other cats. Simon has really been her emmisary, in a sense. Thanks for asking! Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

5.3 preliminary quake which puts it into the moderate size. One of my 5 cats took a fast lap around the house, but the other 4 just slept. Like I said on the other eq thread, there seems to be a whole lotta shaking going on around here lately. The quake we had on Sunday morning was on the Anza fault, and it looks like this one was on the San Andreas fault. This might be an "aftershock" to the Anza quake, but seeing as it's on a different fault line, I'm guessing it's a "reaction" quake (my term: meaning the pressure was shifted from one fault to another) to Anza. Well, time will tell. Just a good reminder to make sure the batteries, flashlights, and emergency supplies are in date and available. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

You know what? This is an incredibly inspiring thread to read. Thank you, Laurel, for showing what true love can do, and for William, what a true will to live will do. Prayers for a continued speedy recovery, and lots of love to you both. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

I agree with that. My ex broke 4 of mine, and it hurt a whole lot for a while. The difference here is that it's 11 days in, and the pain is increasing. Not staying the same, not diminishing, but increasing. And that's the worry for me; we started with Vicodin, went to Percocet, and it's not touching the pain...and it's getting worse. And to get him to differentiate between the ribs hurting, and the lungs beneath hurting is impossible..."it just hurts." And yes, he's ornery as hell...which, while hard to deal with, is a great thing to see. Ashtanga, yes, that is my absolute favorite episode he did. I still tease him about "being old, and confused" which is a line from the show. I swear, he should've been nominated for an Emmy for that episode alone. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Just off the phone with Dad. According to him, it's enormously painful today...he called his Dr., but his Dr. is off today, so he'll wait to go in until tomorrow. When I asked him what's hurting, he told me "breathing. But I'm still breathing anyway." He's refusing to go to the hospital. He's refusing to see another Dr. He's just going to plug away and wait until the Dr. he likes comes back to work tomorrow. I tried to get him in to see another Dr., but according to Dad, his Dr. "knows" what's going on. I tried to get him to see that everything is in his file, that he doesn't need to worry about the other Drs not knowing what's going on, and that his Dr. has someone covering for him. Dad's refusing. Dammit, this is so frustrating. I'm heading over to sit with him, because if it hurts to breathe, things are happening that I'm not comfortable with. He's going to be so pissed that I'm staying there today, but too bad for him. I'm hoping that he'll get over being stubborn and go in to the Dr's today; the potential for significant issues is huge. Prayer warriors, please say a prayer for him. And all you vibrators (??) please vibe away...and the rest of you, happy thoughts, good energy, agape, whatever it is, can you please please send some his way? It's getting dangerous - really dangerous - now. Thanks. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

Well, perhaps they had a whole lot to do with stuff after all. There is clear body language when someone is lying. You don't need a degree in psychology to know when something's off. Haven't you ever met a person and decided, for no "apparent" reason, that this person was someone you didn't want to spend time with? It's the same in a court room, except more pronouced. Having sat on a jury and watched a witness with an extremely discomforting presence, and listened to his testimony closely, I wasn't at all sure this person was telling me the truth about some important things. And he was testifying for the prosecution. Additionally, when you consider that the mother had coached the son in lying during litigation to JC Penny's prior to this case, and had instead of calling the police when the alledged molestation came to light, she called a personal injury attorney, I think that her motives were suspect. Does this mean her son wasn't a victim? No...but if she is a witness, and she has coached him in litigation before, and her first move after finding out was to call an attorney (not criminal, a civil personal injury one...), I'd say that there is the possibility that she coached her son here, too. And that would create the beginnings of reasonable doubt. Add to that her testimony (which none of us know exactly) and you might have a significant discrepancy to attend to. Past behavior, they say, is the best predictor of future behavior. And body language is really, really hard to fake, even if you know about it (I teach a sales class to that effect, and watch student after student, even knowing what they're doing, do it anyway when instructed not to; I know this is true...and that's in a low stress environment, too...). Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~

latest bulletin here WEPA41 PAAQ 150409 TSUWCA TO - TSUNAMI WARNING SYSTEM PARTICIPANTS IN ALASKA/BRITISH COLUMBIA/WASHINGTON/OREGON/CALIFORNIA FROM - WEST COAST AND ALASKA TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER/NOAA/NWS SUBJECT - TSUNAMI WARNING BULLETIN - FINAL BULLETIN NUMBER 2 ISSUED 06/15/2005 AT 0409 UTC ...THE TSUNAMI WARNING AND WATCH STATUS IS CANCELED FOR CALIFORNIA - OREGON - WASHINGTON - BRITISH COLUMBIA - AND ALASKA... EARTHQUAKE DATA PRELIMINARY MAGNITUDE - 7.4 LOCATION - 41.4N 125.6W - 85 MILES NW OF EUREKA-CA. 300 MILES NW OF SAN FRANCISCO-CA. TIME - 1851 ADT 06/14/2005 1951 PDT 06/14/2005 0251 UTC 06/15/2005 A SMALL TSUNAMI WAS OBSERVED AT THE FOLLOWING SITES WATER LEVELS REMAIN NORMAL AT ALL COASTAL SITES. NO WAVE BEEN DETECTED. EVALUATION NO TSUNAMI DANGER EXISTS FOR ALASKA - BRITISH COLUMBIA - WASHINGTON - OREGON OR CALIFORNIA. HOWEVER SOME AREAS MAY EXPERIENCE SMALL SEA LEVEL CHANGES. AS LOCAL CONDITIONS CAN CAUSE A WIDE VARIATION IN TSUNAMI WAVE ACTION THE ALL CLEAR DETERMINATIONS MUST BE MADE BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES. $$ PKZ032-031-042-034-033-035-041-036-PZZ130-131-133-134-132- 135-150-153-156-110-250-210-255-350-353-356-450-455-550- 530-535-555-670-673-650-655-750-AKZ023-024-025-026-028-029- 027-WAZ001-002-005-006-007-008-009-010-011-013-014-015-016- 021-ORZ001-002-021-022-CAZ001-002-005-007-006-075-074-009- 034-035-039-040-046-041-042-043-150508- COASTAL AREAS OF CALIFORNIA - OREGON - WASHINGTON - BRITISH COLUMBIA - AND ALASKA. ...THE TSUNAMI WARNING AND WATCH STATUS IS CANCELED FOR CALIFORNIA - OREGON - WASHINGTON - BRITISH COLUMBIA - AND ALASKA... THE PACIFIC TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER WILL ISSUE A FINAL BULLETIN. THIS WILL BE THE LAST WEST COAST AND ALASKA TSUNAMI WARNING CENTER WATCH/WARNING BULLETIN ISSUED FOR THIS EVENT. THIS INFORMATION IS ALSO POSTED AT WCATWC.ARH.NOAA.GOV. $$ Sounds like it's over, at least for now. But there was a 5.4 on Saturday, a 7+ in Chile yesterday (or was it Sunday?), and a 6.8 in the Aleutian Islands yesterday. It's been shaking this side of the world lately...I wonder why. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~