377

I saw a smoke jumper rig back in the 70s. It was not military, but had the sage gree/olive drab fabric and webbing. It looked bigger and bulkier than sport or military S/L gear. The canopy was not a C9. As I recall it was a 32 foot (or close, more than 28 ft) round with so called Derry Slots for steering. They looked quite different from the skydiving canopy mods but did the same thing. I don't recall seeing any ripcord pcoket. I think it was just for S/L, but I could be mistaken. Hopefully someone who knows more about smoke jumper rigs than I do will post a reply. Our local tunnel can handle four ways. It is a great training tool but just not thrilling for me. Some little kids (under age 7) whose parents can afford the high cost are getting amazingly good at tunnel freefall skills. I wonder when the USPA will lower their age limit for jumping? At WFFC there was a kid from Australia who was 12 and a great RW flyer. What is the age limit in SA? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Yeah, you're right. I guess I'm just focused on the period from '60 to '70. I can believe things are different now, or not, but it doesn't matter for the Cooper thing. Here's another thought. Would it be possible to put together a list of all PCA licenses granted, starting with A-1 or whatever you call it, with names, purely thru discussions with jumpers? There would likely be some missing right? Then extend that to people who didn't get membership, then extend that to other countries. (talking just about '60-'70) I'm guessing we wouldn't be able to even get a list 30% complete? That's really my only point. We can't even put together a list of jumpers. Makes me realize how unlikely it is that we could actually get a good list of suspects, if non-jumpers are included. I think there were quite a few jumpers in the late 60s who would not show up on any database. Some DZs did not require USPA membership. I jumped for many years without a USPA license of any kind. Airtwardo is sure right about the cause of death shifting from gear to radical landings gone wrong. Someone once posted that as the gear becomes safer, skydivers do increasingly risky stuff to keep the fatality rate relatively constant. Despite all the hype, skydiving can be a fairly safe sport if you are conservative. Just avoiding swoop landings will probably reduce your risk of death by about 60%. AADs today are very reliable and so are the ram air reserves. You can screw up and have a pretty good chance of living through it. I did some tunnel flying for the first time a couple of months ago. It made me realize how much danger contributes to the fun and excitement of jumping. The tunnel experience was amazingly like real freefall, but not exciting at all. Some jumpers think the Coopermania is stupid, but I don't. It is one of the great unsolved crimes of the 20th century and it involves parachuting. How can that NOT fascinate a jumper? Those who dont like this forum can skip it. It brings a lot of traffic to the website and that is a good thing overall. It is a major longshot, but info developed here could solve the case and that would be a huge deal. I think the recent CIA/727/SE Asia stuff opens some new avenues of investigation. Surely the guys who jumped that Air America 727 took note of Cooper's hijack and had some thoughts about it. They must have chuckled when Cooper's 727 jump was reported as a first. Sure would like to contact them. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Snow and I are blameless, but Georger might not be ;-). More info on how CIA front air operators messed with registration numbers to conceal the existence of certain aircraft: http://www.ruudleeuw.com/hayes-c47-autec.htm 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I like Georger's thinking on this. This hijack was rather low on the entropy scale the way I see it. Cooper didn't really care where the plane landed, he was just interested in an exit over familiar territory and he apparently accomplished that in spite of setbacks (fueling delays, no stairs down takeoff, etc). It shows planning and knowledge. Some luck too. I sure wish I had a definite yes or no on his alleged examination of the packing cards. Very few people outside of jumpers and riggers even know where to look. Some acro and glider pilots do, but few others. I don't know whether kickers knew this. Maybe some did. I think to a kicker a chute is just hardware, like his safety harness. He isn't very interested in the details. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

define, send me a PM G[/reply I think G's comments were intended for Jo not you O. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It has been said many times on this forum that the FBI Cooper sketch is sort of an everyman look, implying that many faces would be a decent match. There was a huge buzz among jumpers at my DZ about Cooper. I am sure it was the same at DZs all over when the news came out. We all were speculating wildly coming up with suspects who were big risk takers, financially strapped and about the right age and height. We weren't planning on turning anyone in, we just wanted to figure out who did it. We figured it HAD to be a jumper of some kind, probably a skydiver. Trouble was that we couldn't come up with anyone who looked like the sketch. I don't think many people do look like that sketch. The fine features (e.g. delicate nose) aren't all that common. Look at how narrow the nose is in proportion to the face. How many men do you know who have a nose like that? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I made about fifty jumps with my sunglasses held firmly on to my head with daisy chained packing rubber bands. No goggles were worn over them. On jump 51 one lens blew out of its mounting ending my clever experiment. It was kinda hard figuring out where to flare with no depth perception. I moved my head from side to side to get some semblance of stereo vision with my one good eye and it worked: soft standup landing. Now I have a pair of those cheap Rx goggles Joe mentioned and they work fine. Cost only $79. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Do you really believe that? hey,maybe the FBI was looking in the wrong place. Look at this: And some interesting stuff about the CIA's "hide in plain sight" M.O. at Intermountain,and how CIA operated airlines put other guys out of business and then: Latter might have been a good reason for a "grudge", except that it happened after the hijack. The later stuff is also interesting, including navy &army personnel exercising under civilian cover there and a botched attempt to pass off a fatality as a civilian skydiving accident. (1983) All the above from http://www.bollyn.com/index/?id=10684[/reply ] VERY interesting Orange. You are getting some amazing stuff. Remember all the early speculation on this forum that Cooper might have been a smoke jumper? Who would have guessed of a possible link to CIA SE Asia air activities? What kind of coffee are you drinking? I want to switch brands. Yours works! 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Man, if jumpers are as tight as people say here, who were those guys who static-lined the 727? Wouldn't they have bragging rights for life? I mean trivia-question-wise, they were first to jump a commercial jet? The C-141's were in play in the mid '60s, so military paratroops were jumping jets, and there were earlier tests right? But a real commercial jet jump. They were first, right? Wouldn't their money be no good at the bar, for life? Why not take advantage of that? I'd have thought you were right about bragging rights, but those Air America guys might be very tight lipped. You know, Eugene Hasenfus might have been one of the jumpers. I am quite surprised that the first to jump a commercial jet weren't bragging all over the place. Maybe they were quite separated from the skydiving world and this 727 jump stuff was just some company business, no big deal. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

And Snow, please make some of these: Air America Skydive Club Takhli 1970 Saigon Sport Parachute Club Cargo Cult just kickin it 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

well, i must confess i was in my alternate vehicle: '88 toyota pickup 4x4. Has kinda big tires, but wouldn't say extremely jacked up. It's kind of a beater. 6 cylinder though! So you think I need to get a bunch of stickers? That would be good with the ladies? Can I just click somewhere at DZ.com to get them. Don't tell me they're only available at a real DZ? that would suck. I need to design my "Cooper Lives" sticker. start selling those. Snow, If you really want to look OG, get on photoshop and make your own stickers using themes from old DZs. Make some Issaquah stickers. I want one. Oh, and DEFINITELY a Boeing Skydive Club sticker, put a 727-100 in the middle or in my case, a Boeing 377. The current DZ stickers mean nothing these days. Every tandem passenger gets one. I'll be looking for your truck. If you make those special stickers, so might the FBI. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

As I recall all the typing and stamping was done at PCA/USPA HQ. Back in 68 it was located in Monterey CA of all places. You can call USPA HQ and see what archived membership material they have. They don't seem to have good historical records. They show no record of my membership from 68 yet I have copies of the Parachutist USPA magazine addressed to me from back then. Thom Lyons would know a lot more than I do about early jumping. You might check out the SCR database. It was the first national RW award. Seemed to me that most experienced jumpers from the 70s got an SCR number sooner or later. I got mine late, around 1978. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Did you ever figure out what that odd piece of hardware you sold at the garage sale was? If it was cut from a parachute harness and Duane owned it, you'd see a lot of interest here. Just wondering what it was. Stay positive Jo. Everyone takes a few hits in this sandbox, but it's just words and the audience is tiny. Don't let it break you. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I just got back from going to Home Depot. And there's a van in front of me, with two orange ladders on the roof. ~16' extension ladders. White van. Didn't get a look at the guy. There's two round stickers in the left rear window. I think one was USPA. A bumper sticker that says "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you" Another sticker on the right rear window that said something about Skydiving. I was literally just 3 feet behind this vehicle. It about 7:30 pm. He turned left. I didn't see where he went when I entered Home Depot. I should have gotten a photo, per Jo's lead. So that's the closest I've ever come to a skydiver. My heart is still going! I would have stayed in pursuit, but I remembered Ckret is off the thread...oh well. :) Snow, Cooper is likely to be driving a wheelchair these days, not a van, don't you think? There is a guy round these parts who has one of those monster pickup trucks jacked way up and it is plastered with skydiving and motocross decals. This guy has never done a solo jump. Maybe he is a motocross god, but I doubt it. I only have a tiny (1.5 inch) Alti-2 sticker depicting only a skydiving altimeter face on my car. If you weren't a jumper you wouldn't know what it was. There is a local cop who jumps and it is there so he might think twice about ticketing me. Which is stronger, the brotherhood of jumpers or the desire to be a jerk with a badge? Haven't found out yet. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The FBI did precious little of that in the SF Bay Area. I don't know one jumper in this area who was queried by the feds. Too bad Wesley Snipes or Kenau Reeves wasn't in the FBI back then. They wouldn't just sit by the phone waiting for hot tips. They would have been all over it, jumping, investigating and raising hell. Oh yeah. Georger asks what would rule Duane out? A solid alibi, just like McCoy had. But the person who might know something about his whereabouts on that fateful day seems to want him on the plane. So Snow, what bar did you find jumpers at? It used to be Gordon Biersch in P.A. on Wednesday nights. Orange, you seem to have lightened up on Jo. Holiday spirit? Keep that research coming. You are finding some very interesting stuff. Seems like I gotta base jump to get any respect these days. Trouble is it's too scary. What a quandry. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I've jumped in sandals with no problem. What happens with loafers is that the slipstream tries to inflate them and you lose your interference fit. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Snow, you are so busted. Thats a PINK license, so we know the jumper you plied with alcohol was female. Could have been Rigger Mick's ex wife, but he won't mind You are an honorary jumper, so mum's the word. But Snow... wasn't she a bit old for you? They haven't issued those kind of licenses for many decades. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger is right. I am myopic, need glasses to drive, jump and see distant things clearly yet when approaching SFO for a landing from any direction I can identify towns like Sausalito, Hayward, Redwood City, Sunnyvale etc without my glasses. I cant see anything distinctly but know where lighted areas are relative to unlighted areas (bay, hills, etc) and can figure it out. I REALLY don't think Duane was Cooper but Duane might have been able to ID Tacoma from the 727 without his Rx glasses if he knew the area 377. 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Loafers would almost certainly come off in a jet jump. Very hard to understand how an experienced jumper expected to exit, freefall, land and walk out in loafers. The cool footwear in the 60s were French Paraboots. made especially for jumping and pretty expensive. I jumped mine a couple of years ago just for fun. Running shoes are a lot more comfortable. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

well if that concept was also true in 1971, and Cooper was 45 in 1971, then looking for him jumping at the DZs then pretty much didn't make sense? (I could never understand why jumpers who were in their 30's in 1971, acted like it made sense for the FBI to talk to them?) Cooper might be one of those old jumpers who quit for a while, was not current in 71, but had no qualms about making a jump without refresher training. He might still be making a jump now and then. There is a JOES club, (jumpers over eighty) and they are very competent RW flyers! The ram air chutes (squares) made it possible for old guys (like me) to stay active. If you can resist swooping, avoid high winds and fly a lightly loaded canopy, they will give you safe soft landings just about every time. Wouldn't that be a hoot if Coop still made a jump now and then? The young hotshot kids who think they rule coolness would have no idea that the old guy on their load could put them all to shame. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

all kidding aside, Airtwardo has a good point. Once deployed, Cooper's night landing under a 28 ft C9 depended a lot more on luck than canopy guidance skills. It was kind of a joke to call them steerable, at least the ones likely to be packed in a bailout rig. Rotatable is a more accurate description. You could change where you were looking very easily, but changing where you were going if a good wind was blowing was a different story. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

377: high five! High 5's aside, is this another man/woman thing? Tom focused on the "peregrine" bit. I saw the "rose" and knew it had to be a she. btw p/rose... we've discovered Snow inspects posters to see if they are men or women. Maybe Cooper isn't the only thing he's looking for online MATCH.COOPER.COM... where the obsessed connect. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

:) I had actually glanced at that thread. I was thinking, after all this Cooper stuff, "How hard could it be to find Vic" There's a fair number of posts at DZ.com where someone's looking for an old buddy. Everyone should be findable..it's just a matter of effort. I wonder what the hit rate is for posts that are looking for an old buddy, and people post at DZ.com and someone answers. I guess it depends on whether the guy continued jumping in his older years? It would be interesting to know what percentage of jumpers continue jumping, if they jumped when they were young. Very few continue in my experience. I'd guess less than 5%. You can look at SOS, skydivers over sixty or POPS parachutusts over phorty and get some rough cuts on metrics. Of the hundred or so jumpers I knew from my early days 1968-75, only three still jump today. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Well, georger's strategy is probably effective also: "I am not FBI. I am not CIA. And I am not interested in you." I wouldn't bet against that. Georger only patronizes bars that have a married seating section. No point misleading anyone. On the other hand, if he gets approached while sitting there, he knows he is in for some serious no strings attached action. Georger is clever, you gotta admit it Snow. Hey, check out this thread, everyone needs a friend like Mick: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2340978;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

"you have women on the brain! 377 Effect.Wink " OK Georger. I accept that. So tell me, what is the Georger Effect? Inquiring minds want to know. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.