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Orange, Keep this SE Asia dark ops research coming. Who knows what might turn up. Your McChord air museum findings have put that on my must visit list. They have two very rare old bombers, B 18 and B 23, sort of like DC 3 derivative bombers. You sure find a lot of obscure Cooper-relevant aviation stuff which I really enjoy. I have been trying hard to find proof that the 727 was used operationally to drop people, but so far zero results. I belong to several aviation history associations and have pinged colleagues who are experts in SE Asia 60s and 70s ops, but nothing solid comes back. I know from my work in thermal imaging during the Nam war that highly advanced prototypes were used operationally, but the official story was always that they were one of a kind (false) and were never deployed on military combat missions (false). I hope the cease fire on personal attacks lasts. We should debate evidence, methods, and results rather than who pisses us off. Maybe the new atmosphere here will bring back some of the folks who left. That would be a good thing, fresh blood. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass...... Your posts, going way back, interest me. I have the feeling you have some pretty strong views concerning the Cooper case, and what happened. Care to share those views with us? It could be beneficial ... Georger The only strong view I have is that he could easily have survived the jump and a night walking or hiding. I have a strong view about the thread too. It really isn't the place for personal fighting and attacks between Mrs. Weber and others. It just makes the thread distasteful and fucking shitty. Sure, some of her posts are a bit hard to stomach, but the same applies to other's posts. Would anyone, including Mrs. Weber, be willing to commit to a unilateral cease-fire, and if necessary just ignore each other's posts? Jim Justy read 377's. I sign up too. I'm glad I asked and respect your point of view. IMHO we also need more people contributing in this forum .... Thanks, Georger My God, self stabilizing? self civilizing? ... this anti entropic forum behavior will call into question the necessity of iron fisted moderators. Doesn't it violate some law of thermodynamics? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

OK, NOW I finally understand why those govt agents work for such low pay. The real comp is in non taxable fringe benefits. Surely the FBI didn't let the CIA have more fun than they did. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Sounds good to me. I'll sign up. No personal attacks. Disagreeing with facts or positions is OK, but don't attack the person with whom you disagree. But first I want Gaza AND the West Bank (just kidding). 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

You see that is the very thing that bothers me. I must be missing something? How qualified did you have to be to do this? Anyone can fall out the back of an airplane with a parachute on? The territory is benign (Scotton - south) unless he was unlucky and hit a water area. The chute is reliable and slow IF he got it open. The weather below 5000ft survivable for a while. The fall dead-certain unless he spins etc. All of these parametrs have neen well- defined by the experts here at Dropzone. If he lands and is mobile, his next challenge is avoiding detection and escape. He got in and out of Portland once - he can do it twice ad I do not see that highly specialised skills are required as much as luck. G. Georger, Everything you say is correct. Anyone could have done it if they were lucky. Gosset was military jump trained, had money problems, looks enough like the FBI sketch, had been stationed at Ft Lewis, and confidentially confessed to the hijack. Sure, without a hot twenty he is just another self appointed Cooper, but he remains a person of interest on my suspect list. Galen Cook is controversial, but he is not dumb or stubborn. He obviously isnt going to reveal everything he has if a book is in the works, but he is a smart guy who has done a lot of work investigating the Cooper case. If he thinks Gossett is still the best suspect that is something to ponder. I have often ruled out anyone and everyone who confessed to being Cooper, but I am not so sure any more. The temptation to be a celebrity to a close confident might have overwhelmed normal caution. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Sluggo, Have you ruled out Gossett completely? He sure was qualified to do it and I have seen nothing yet that rules him out. Still, without a hot $20, all these self confessed Coopers can form a line. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Snow, Was that a double blind study? What was the hooker placebo? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Stick around Geoger. Laughs strengthen your immune system and your parody of wacky talk show hosts gave me a few laughs this morning. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger, I understand your frustration with Jo but I dont favor excluding her. We appear as wrongheaded to her as she does to us. It's a big playground here and I think there is room for Jo in it. This is a skydiving forum so it should have some DZ atmosphere and culture to it. Most DZs are inclusive and tolerant. It isn't uncommon to see right wing law and order types doing RW with freaks having more hardware piercing their body than is attached to their rigs. DZ's have their cliques and in-crowds, but people aren't normally banned unless they endanger others. Pushy evangelists used to bother me, especially the ones who come to your door, but I have adopted a more tolerant and benevolent attitude in my old age. They REALLY think that converting me will save my soul and spare me eternal damnation in hell. In their minds, they are doing good. They have no bad intentions. They don't mean to harrass. They are just spreading the good news about Jesus. There is actually something sweet and altrusitic in what they do, even if it annoys me. I no longer am abrupt with them or rude. Jo REALLY believes Duane was Cooper and thinks we are too biased against her to see the evidence in its own light. Her teases annoy me and her unshakable obsession is frustrating, but she isn't an evil person and has no malicious goals here. From time to time she does come up with useful info. She isnt wrong about everything. As I recall she was the first to insist that 727s dropped jumpers in SE Asia. I was 100% sure she was wrong, but her claim turned out to be true. Were it not for her I wouldnt have unearthed that Air America historian in TX who led to Snows discovery of that very surprising and informative film of the 727 paradrops. Take a deep breath. You can ignore Jo. You don't need to exclude her or leave if she stays. You can pick and choose which, if any, of her posts you respond to. So hang in there, try not to let Jo get on your nerves. You are a valued contributor. I will try hard to keep you here because you add so much to my enjoyment of the forum. I know you won't like this, but Jo does too. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, My sincere sympathies. It must be very hard on everyone to lose someone so young. I really feel for her kids. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Come on Orange, only you can get this runaway train back on the tracks. Give us some hard core CIA aviation stuff. Anything really... 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Careful now Snow. You are making a good case for Gossett as Cooper. He believed in time travel portals among other new age ideas about physics. I want to find one of those portals and run my 401K through it backwards. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Come on Georger, be nice to Jo month isnt over yet. How about editing a bit so that we don't get the wrath of Quade descending upon us? I hate censorship and share your frustration but I really don't want you to get banned. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

OK, so lets just forget the photo. Jo wont tell us who she thinks it is or where she thinks it came from. Georger says we can't even determine if it depicts a boy or girl. Why spend any more time on it? Let's get back to planes, chutes, CIA and smoke jumpers again. I like that stuff. It has some arguable connections to Cooper. Hard to say the same for the photo although Jo thinks otherwise. I think if Cooper went into the river and drowned under an open canopy it might eventually wash up somewhere. Gill nets and trot lines lost in rivers or high tidal flow areas almost always ball up which is good as they cease fishing as ghost nets/lines. The balled up mess usually snags on something. I think a canopy would do the same although I have no proof. I guess if the snag was in deep water it could stay hidden though. Strong winter flows could dislodge it and wash it into shallower waters where it would become visible. If Cooper never made it out of the harness would he decay into a skelton? I have no idea what happens to submerged human bodies over long periods of time. I guess oxygen content and temp would affect decay rates. That Jon Benet Ramsey blog makes this forum look like chaos. But who is to say that theirs is more effective? Both crimes remain unsolved. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I second that motion. Have you ever seen chaos run as smoothly as it did every year at WFFC? I mean not even a major storm could knock it down for more than half a day. We'd be partying all night while Beth and the gang were ordering new tents, getting debris cleared and making the flooded DZ ready for the next day. If only our government ran as well. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Good point Orange. No deaths, no injuries, minor property damage, just a few hundred K stolen and the loss was insured. Cooper poses no imminent threat. Other than the embarrassment factor, there isn't much about this case that would make the FBI pour any resources into it today. It remains, however, a high publicity crime and is a thorn in the side of a law enforcement agency that but for Cooper would have a 100% record in solving air piracy cases. Jo, if you contend that the child photo is Mucklow and was given to Cooper on the plane, just say so. What do you gain by teasing the forum? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Snowmman, You always come up with the most amazing pix, but what are your 727 "nukes" really? Long range ferry tanks? Something else? Perhaps LN2 or LOX tanks to enable air transport of alien life forms? I watched Independence Day. I know the score. You know I am an airplane nut. You have piqued my curiosity. I must have the answer. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I thought we've posted those pics before. I know I had found some. The stairs were removed if I remember right? I was told that the WFFC 727 had the stairs removed but never saw it first hand. There are shots of it doing a gear up low pass over the WFFC DZ that depict an amazing buzz job... very LOW. I no longer like or encourage low passes by jumpships after having seen one go horribly wrong. I had just jumped out of the plane described in the link below and watched a friend (pilot/jumper John Lewis) die in the crash. I still have bad dreams about it. http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=67768&key=0 Glad to see Georger hanging in there through all the noise and entropy. Got a good laugh out of Snow's words about the forum being an immortal unkillable thing. And Sluggo, come on in, the water is... well, it doesnt meet federal standards, but with some massive doses of chlorine and luck... We need Zing and Guru back in the mix. Don't leave, it's a bit nippy outside but the band is still playing in the promenade deck. This ship is unsinkable, says so right in the brochure. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger's numeric sign offs are Morse Code shorthand. It is amazing how many of the serious posters on this forum hold FCC ham radio licenses. Haven't figured out why there is such a high correlation. Duane was a CBer, but that doesn't count. If Cooper were a skydiver or military jumper or aircrew he'd likely have known about VHF AM radio comms with the plane and how easy it would have been to intercept them. It would have given him much useful info, including advance warning of any planned ambush, refuel delays, info on chase planes if the info was given to the NWA pilots, etc. Jo, still waiting for your info on the child photo. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

ah thanks 377. I used to search more before I would say anything, but don't give it as much effort now. Maybe that explains why the fabric side walls aren't in the md-88 pic but are in the 727 pic. I'm not totally confident it was a md-88. here's another pic from the same place that shows the outside, maybe you can ID it as md-88 rather than 727. I had commented before that it was hard to find pics of all the planes with rear stairs, so maybe this post isn't a waste. I thought the history was that not all DC-9's had the rear stairs? That one guy who went out the back of a DC-9...they talked about the exit being "little used" and I always wondered if it was a smaller exit than the 727...but these pics seem to be about the same size as the 727 stairs...the md-88 was later though as you say. Don't think I have a good dc-9 rear airstair photo 377: can you confirm this looks like a md-88? (edit) in fact, now that I look at it, it's obvious because of the stair tread height that the lower stairs must fold down??? is that correct? (edit) another different md-88 (apparent?) pic added Snow, I don't know the answers to your questions but I will see what I can find. My only experience with Douglas airstairs were on the DC 9-21 I jumped at WFFC 2006. The actual stairs had been removed to leave a sheet metal lined ramp for quick mass exits. Was it ever positively confirmed that the Cooper plane landed in Reno with the door placard missing? I just want to be sure we can reasonably rely on the found placard to establish the flight path. Those fortunate enough to have jumped the 727 at WFFC in Quincy before it stopped coming should have a lot of photos of the rear exit. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, I have come to your defense when you are accused of wasting people's time. This photo tease is making me look dumb. Who does the photo depict? Where did it come from? How will it prove Duane was on the plane? I can only conclude that you believe the photo was given to Cooper on the plane. Sluggo seems to be drawing the same conclusion. That would be a truly extraordinary claim and would require extraordinary proof. Please tell us what you know so people don't waste time speculating. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Tell us about the photo. These teases serve no purpose. If this photo proves Duane was Cooper tell us why. IF Duane turns out to be Cooper I want to be the first on the forum to apologize to you. I don't think it will happen, but I do keep an open mind. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

MD 88 isn't a 727, it is essentially a modernized stretched DC 9, twin engined jet. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

***There are lot of web sites where DIY'ers are building their own UAV helicopters and planes. Quote You can buy a GPS guided autopilot for RC type aircraft that will fly a preprogrammed mission profile including altitude changes and waypoint triggered payload drops for under $1500. Scary stuff. Hobbyists have flown a homemade model aircraft from Maine to the UK guided by such an autopilot. It reportedly landed within 50 feet of the programmed target. If Cooper had GPS can you imagine how much easier his task would have been? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Agree 200% Snowmman. Obesity triggered diabetes is more of a national threat than terrorism. I laugh at these insurance policies that exclude terrorism and add a big premium if you want coverage. Hmm, lets add meteor strike and sinkhole submersion coverage too. The Iraq Bush described last night doesnt match any reports that I have heard from military friends who have recently served there. His immense personal pride in the fact that there have been no serious domestic terrorist attacks since 911 is misplaced. We haven't been attacked by space aliens either. I disagreed with his Dad's policies, but could at least like him. After all, he skydives!!! 377 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.