377

OK Jo, thanks for clearing that up

I jumped from the Collings Foundation B24 WW2 bomber back when it had the very non PC "Dragon and Its Tail" artwork on its starboard fuselage. At $350 it was my most expensive jump by far, but it was worth it. We stood on the longitudinals in the bomb bay and left right out the bottom ... just like bombs. It was peacetime. We were flying during a beautiful sunset over Quincy Illinois rather than a freezing winter day over Berlin. Instead of bone breaking rounds we had the latest cushy sport gear, but it was still haunting imagining being mauled by flack and fighters over Germany and bailing out over hostile territory. Check out the artwork, genuine WW 2 B24 artwork copy: http://www.schultzairshows.com/B-24rivers.jpg BTW, the B 24 co-pilot was a pretty bonde Swedish model, REALLY! She later married the pilot who was one of the Collings family members. Some guys have all the luck. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I wonder how allied bomber crews fared bailing out over Europe in WW 2? Most had never jumped before. Many British bomber crews bailed out at night in the winter over all sorts of terrain. Injuries? No pulls? Is there any good data on this? Landing a military bailout type round is not hard to do on good soft level ground, but they come down fast and if you add rocks, darkness and hills to the equation injuries become a lot more likely. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

You call my posts an attack Jo? How about just responding to my polite logical questions? I am free to attack your logic and you are free to attack mine. That is not a personal attack or insult. Your photo teases serve no useful purpose. Tell us your contentions and let's see where it goes. You irritate a lot of people on this forum: Georger, Jerry, Shelly and even Sluggo who has treated you very respectfully. I don't get riled by you, but I can see why others might. You could take some steps to improve things and one of them would be to stop teasing, hiding, hinting etc. Just state your alleged facts or conclusions plainly. Is that an attack? I sure don't think it is. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Tell me why Carr wouldn't want to solve this case. Whoever solves it will go down in history as one of the best detectives of the century. Carr is an FBI agent. This is the ONLY skyjack that the FBI hasn't solved. The career enhancement would be huge. Use logic Jo. My logic tells me that Carr would reject nothing that he thought might ID Cooper. If he fails to do what you ask, it is because he sees no connection to Cooper, not because he is part of a coverup conspiracy. Tell me why the FBI would cover up who Cooper really was if they knew. The case is old, stale, nearly irrelevant to 21st century foreign terrorism. Why would they cover up anything? The FBI does go after their own if corruption is found. If the 1971 FBI were complicit in Norjack I actually think the 2009 FBI would not cover it up. Call me naive. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo, Another tease. Who do you think is in the photo? Why do you think it elicits a strong response from G? Stop dealing in innuendo and just tell us what you contend. The photo just looks like a guy in a band or choir uniform to me. Without further info, I fail to see any Cooper connection. Remember when you were postulating that the coat chevrons had military/govt/intelligence significance? That seemed very illogical to me. Anything and everything you post about ________ being Cooper riles up G. Hard for me to tell that the SLC photo is an especially unique trigger point. That "ballistic" claim is also a bit illogical don't you think? IF the photo were especially significant, an FBI/CIA guy as smart as G would never rise to the bait. Correct? As always, I welcome your posts. Free speech 24/7/365 here. Wild theories welcomed. Maybe there never was a hijack after all. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Hey, the economy is in shambles and there is no more profitable business than a cult. Snowmman knows a good thing when he sees it, just like L Ron Hubbard, Sun Myung Moon, Werner Erhard, etc. Plus, the cult leaders get the pick of the litter for "personal assistants." When he emerges alive from the killer Washougal, after a near crucifixion and a crown of blackberry thorns, he will be hailed as a messiah. The Vatican will denounce him as a false prophet but it wont slow him down one bit. The Snowbball is on a roll. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I can see staying in the cockpit just to be 100% sure to avoid a confrontation with a bomb wielding hijacker. That means leaving the stairs down. Leaving the landing gear down for the rest of the flight if you are reasonably certain that Cooper has left the plane is puzzling. Sounds like they weren't so sure, Could Cooper have exited way later than we have been assuming? I can't see how to square that with the Tena Bar money find. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Skywhuffo, Your theory about there being no Cooper and that it was a crew scam might be true, but it is NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE for more than two people to keep a secret like that. Eventually someone slips up or talks. Barry Bonds in the end could only rely on his trainer to keep his steroids secret. Everyone else involved broke under a little legal pressure and talked. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

An interesting thought Georger, but which sounds more provacative: nestless or naked? I always thought JG, when she wasn't posing for centerfolds in National Geographic, got a bit too cozy with the chimps... if you catch my drift. I too have pondered whether Cooper WAS found dead, the loot taken, and the body and gear hidden. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Wow! That is an impressive set of survival credentials. Maybe YOU are Cooper? Just kidding Jerry. You mentioned blackberry patches in the area. I have seen some so tall, thick, wide and impenetrable that I think a fit person dropped into the middle without a good knife might never emerge alive. Am I right or do they look like bigger hazards than they really are? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Snow, so that's where you got the panties you referred to in your post directed to Georger... Sluggo, do women ever geocache undergarments? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Sluggo, DB Cooper is one of the very few civilians who has jumped from a perfectly good airplane. Jumpships start out as airliners, then go to charter, then to freight, then to dope smuggling and when even the smugglers wont fly em, they become jumpships. Cooper started at the top. I'll see what I can do about getting you a DC 3 ride. They are getting scarce but Skydive AZ still takes theirs up once in a while. I love this photo I shot of the FAA FLIGHT STANDARDS guy (plane cop) looking skeptically at our ancient ATL 98 CARVAIR jumpship. The FAA knew FO SHO this was no perfectly good airplane but all the logbook and AD paperwork was in PERFECT order... hmmmm. See attached. Check this WFFC DC 3 story out, I was in the jumpseat: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1815953#1815953 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Dont be too surprised if you find an elaborate pot farm in the most remote places. I used to do criminal defense and you would not believe how remote some of the busted farms were. The cops couldn't have found or raided them without helicopters even if they swore off donuts for a year. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Knowing what I do about your ice climbing exploits, I'd actually bet on you not against you Snow. Really.

Interesting you should mention that. I was in Louisiana in 1969 right after Hurricane Camille hit it hard. People in the remote coastal marsh areas who ignored warnings and stayed behind and drowned were very quickly attacked by hordes of crabs who stripped most of the flesh from their bones. At least that's what the locals told me. I imagine crawfish could do the same. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Snow, I think one of our forum participants wants to take you up on your offer to do an on site Cooper simulation, but the price is a bit steep. He hasn't said it, but I think he wants to prechill you down to about 90 degress F body core temp. Any problem with that starting condition? Just kidding. When a local tells me about local conditions I listen unless the claim seems absurd. Jerry hasn't said anything yet that looks absurd to me. Death Valley is remote and hostile, yet it has a lot of human traffic near areas where you could die in a couple of days if you got lost. It is not a perfect analogy to Washougal, but there is a common thread: getting lost can be fatal in hostile territory even if you are wandering close to populated or well travelled areas. In the areas where Cooper came likely came down, could he stay lost for more than one night? Would daylight reveal roads, houses, civilization even if far away? Jerry? Snow? Sluggo? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Post some photos! ? There is a website with Rantoul photos from several seasons - you in one of those? Sure. See below. One of my WFFC landings is still in the top banner picture spread for the www.freefall.com website. The canopy and blue jumpsuit is the same one as in the fourth attachment. Man do I miss that event which has been shut down, hopefully not forever. For a propliner junkie like me it was pure heaven, DC 3, DC 4, ATL 98, C 130A, AN 2, etc etc. Although I prefer the old planes to the new ones, A DC 9-21 jet jump was impossible to resist. The only bad part was jumper fatalities nearly every year. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Nobody can do American culture stuff better than foreigners. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Well Jerry, you know the area and the conditions Cooper would have faced that night so I am giving a lot of credence to your conclusions. You are saying it is really a moot point whether or not he opened his canopy as he wouldn't have survived the night. If correct, then his remains, his gear and whatever remains of his loot are waiting to be located. I hope you find something in your searches. I think it is likely that he opened given that all he had to do was pull the ripcord handle as he exited. Hypothermia, however, will kill you just as dead as a 120 mph terminal velocity ground impact will, it just takes a bit longer. One thing looks pretty certain: Cooper was not dressed for the occasion. That has always puzzled me and makes me wonder if he had any idea how tough his mission would be. It doesnt take a genius to know a night jump into a rural area in the Pacific NW in November will not be a cake walk, so why wear slip on shoes and casual clothes? Others have speculated he had more appropriate garb underneath or in his case, but I see no evidence that he did. Do you have vultures up there? In rural CA vultures will find a putrifying body pretty quickly and circle it making the location visible from a distance. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Ralph has jumped??? Very cool! Carr is next. He can't let the old retired agents out James Bond him can he? My offer to give Larry some tunnel time still stands. It will get him ready for AFF and then the Perris DC 9 charter jump over the Washougal next Thanksgiving night. Jerry, you seem to be quite certain that Cooper perished in the jump. Why? I have never been in the area, know very little about wilderness survival but I have done a jet jump (DC 9) and it wasn't such a big dangerous deal. Of course it was a nice summer day over the cornfields of Rantoul Illinois when I jumped. I know Cooper faced a much more hostile environment. Do you think he went in without an open canopy or died trying to hike (or swim?) out. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Now there is an economic "bailout" I can support. Beats handing billions of taxpayer money to Merrill Lynch, Citicorp and B of A and trusting them to act honorably. What is that cool looking airplane dropping the money? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jerry, What do you think about Gossett as a Cooper suspect? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I have only made a single jet jump (in 2006 not 1971) but I think a tightly banded bunch of twenties would stay together if tossed from a jet at speeds under 200 knots. Light (or more precisely: high surface area to weight ratio) objects attached to heavier objects tended to get separated (e.g, goggles and other attached objects were stripped off of some people exiting the jet) but I think money tightly bound together would not be subjected to the same differential forces. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Definitely possible, but so against human nature as to be unlikely. People "throw money away" in gambling, bad investments, unwise marriages, etc but who among us has ever seen or even heard of someone literally throwing away a large sum of money other than perhaps a robber with cops in hot pursuit? Cooper wanted to "tip" Tina with some loot, (she declined) so if there was more cash than he could carry I think he'd have left it in the plane with the hope that Tina might be able to somehow get it rather than tossing it out the door. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.