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That got a chuckle out of me Snow. All I have are some narrow dark clip on ties. The sad thing is that they are part of my current wardrobe and not Cooper paraphenalia. If I just wait long enough they will come back in style and people will stop snickering, right? I am not totally ignorant of fashion. Just last month I retired my clear plastic pocket protectors and my slide rule holster. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I'll accept that Bohan is real. I want to know how he independently measured winds aloft that night on approach. There is a crude way to do it by flying a slow circle and noting changes in DME ground speed on different compass headings, but you wouldn't be flying lazy circles in that airspace that night on approach. Using that method you groundspeed is a minimum when headed directly into the wind and maximum when it is on your tail. That gives you the wind direction. The windspeed is calculated by comparing the groundspeed difference on those two flight headings. This gives a very crude indication because DME groundpeed indications are only accurate when flying directly to or from a DME VORTAC station. DME groundspeed readings are useful in a relative sense but are not metrically accurate on headings that are not directly to or from the VORTAC station. http://www.avweb.com/news/avionics/183230-1.html 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Didn't Gosset become some sort of offshoot Catholic priest after Norjack? A vast Salt Lake City/Vatican conspiracy seems to be implicated. We have just scratched the surface. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Bruce, If Bohan existed, how would he independently know winds aloft? You need ground speed and ground track data and a computer that can compare it to airspeed and course and express the difference as winds aloft. It can be manually calculated if you have DME, but domestic airliners didn't carry navigators and the flight deck crew would be very busy with other things on approach. INS (inertial nav systems) and Doppler Nav can calculate and display winds aloft, but Continental domestic aircraft carried neither. GPS wasn't operational in 71. I am not a licensed pilot so maybe I am missing something obvious. Pilots chime in. Welcome to the forum. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Well that just got you on the DHS A list. I can't let you outdo me Snow. Yellow cake, dirty bomb, isotopes, uranium, plutonium, C4, nitrate, 235, 238, thorium, fertilizer, diesel, dynamite, TNT, shipping container, radio-opaque, lead shield, x ray, airborne, pathogen, water supply. That should do it. The first amendment needs to be exercised or it will atrophy. I'll now have to arrive 2 hours early to make my flights if they let me board at all. With any luck Snow will also be waiting to be interviewed by the DHS morons and we can talk smack about Cooper. Hey Georger. W6DBC is taken but K6DBC is available. Should I apply? Not fully PSK enabled yet but can do HF RTTY. QCX? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I have already optioned the screenplay. David Lynch wants to direct it, but I prefer the Cohn Brothers. Any suggestion for lead actor? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Be considerate of the FBI Georger. They'd feel a whole lot better if their only unsoved skyjacking was done by a mastermind rather than a moron. For me the jury is still out on Cooper's intellect. I see indications of both idiocy and high intelligence. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Wow PLF, I didn't know you lost a friend. The survivor's story about the other two taking off their life jackets and drifting/swimming away is bizzare. He must be very stressed and who knows how it affected his perception and memory. Hypothermia and hallucinations go hand in hand. If only they had carried an EPIRB distress beacon. Hard to understand how anyone would go so far offshore in a small craft without one. My condolences go out to you and to all concerned. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

And what kind of training is that may I ask? I want to take the course. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I can verify that 800 ft +/- 100 opening metric. It was alarming at first but very comfortable if you pull high enough and learn to expect it. The Tri is a perfect old timer canopy. Love mine as only a survivor of many bone jarring surplus round canopy landings could. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Duane thought so, but McCoy didnt fit the physical description and with all his blood on the floor the dna comparison was easy! How many quarts does it take! That assumes that the FBI has Cooper's DNA. How can you be sure that they really do? If Cooper were really clever he could leave stuff that had other people's DNA on it. I wonder if your DNA could be extracted from your ties? Seems like a a tie, with no skin or hair contact, might not have the wearers DNA on it. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Georger, You are right, there are many credible alternative money transport explanations in addition to the three Jo put forth, but give her some credit for her new approach which explicitly acknowledges possibilities other than Duane's paper bag toss. Her dogmatism is decreasing, even if only slightly. Tom, you have hinted several times that many assumptions about the case are wrong. I wish you'd tell us what you think they are. I have this nagging suspicion that the money had some human help in getting to where it was found and that the river currents don't tell the whole story. Am I totally off base? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

We have these really good suspects like Mayfield and McCoy who are ruled out primarily if not exclusively by alibis that the FBI investigated and believed. Snow, Sluggo, Georger, all: is it possible that McCoy's alibi was fake? Mayfield's? Just how solid were they? What would it have taken to make fake ones that the FBI would buy as true? Neither suspects were a perfect match to the sketches or witness descriptions but they were close enough. Ralph H knew a lot about Mayfield. He is reported to be sure it was not Mayfield. Based on alibi alone or something more? Didnt Mayfield call in contemporaneously with Norjack and say "it isnt me"? That is a bit weird. I may have my facts wrong, but McCoy seemed like such a great fit but for the alibi. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I got a huge kick out of what the Coast Guard did to give mariners good GPS data back when DOD was dithering the GPS satellite signals to degrade accuracy. The Coasties installed fixed position GPS receivers at old low frequency coastal radiobeacon sites, compared current GPS position to known fixed position of the GPS receiver and transmitted a constantly updated differential correction to ships at sea. The differential correction signals were sent using the old LF beacon transmitters and some updated interface electronics. Worked like a charm and dirt cheap. It is still in operation and improves the accuracy of even undithered GPS for ships and other users. It is called DGPS. Snow, you seemed to be digging very deep on local radar info from the 1971 era. Find anything more? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I am no Ghandi or Mother Theresa, believe me, but being nice does NOT have to be a two way street. Fighting fire with fire just makes things hotter. Cool water works better. Being nice to someone hostile is not the same as conceding or kissing butt. You are not allowing them to dictate or control the atmosphere of the encounter. It can be seen as a power move rather than a wimp move. If we react with equal venom to every hostile thing said here we just spin into an anger vortex. Anger here just impedes progress. I like the intellectual sparring on this forum.We have some really bright participants and it is fun to see a war of ideas. Good things come from those battles but little good comes from personal insults and cuts. Ok, enough Rodney King. Back to the main event. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Indeed we do Jo. I do like your approach of stating alternative explanations and clarifying that your position is one choice but others exist. We are making progress. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I haven't been to South Africa where Orange undoubtedly drives em crazy, but here in the US it is probably the Perris DZ. Our DBC club has Tina, who sure looked pretty attractive in the NWA stewardess outfit don't you think? Can you picture her in a nun's habit? Don't get kinky on this Snow, I know what you are thinking with the crown of thorns and all that. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Tom K's paintball mechanism expertise actually impresses me. Too many "scientists" put up their hood and call the tow truck when something goes wrong. I bet Tom carries wrenches in his trunk. Common sense is just as important as all the equations and methodology. I bet Tom has his share. I think Jerry does too. Being a fisherman, I started to wonder whether you could catch fish with plain unscented currency. No lure, just the money. I bet I could get albacore tuna to strike a bundle of bills when they are in a feeding frenzy. It is kind of cheating because you whip them into the frenzy by tossing live bait to them, but when they go nuts they attack nearly anything that hits the water. I'll have to try that sometime. BTW, sturgeon inhabit the Columbia river. No, I don't think they ate Cooper, but they grow to truly huge sizes. We used to deliver tuna to the canneries in Astoria at the mouth of the Columbia. The canneries are all closed now but back in the day there was an active gillnet fishery in the river. Sturgeon were sometimes snared with the targeted salmon. What does fishing have to do with Cooper? Nothing. Just that Tom's cash casting got me thinking. That rod and reel casting was GREAT theater BTW. Tossing cash out by handline wouldn't have been nearly as good a video clip. Should have put 20's or even 100's on the top and bottom of the stack though. Those dollar bills lack punch. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Q: What is Tom fishing for using money as bait? A; Lawyers A: Sharks (same as lawyers) A: Publicity A: (your answer here) I truly welcome Tom's press coverage. It gets about 10,000 times more exposure than our cloistered incestuous forum does. Who knows what may come out of the woods spurred by the resurgence of DBC interest? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

With both Sluggo and SafecrackinPLF posting it is like old times. If only Ckret would make a brief celebrity appearance. I just got kicked out of one DBC secret club Snow, so don't feel alone in your failure to join the in crowd. Popularity is fickle. Some of us just don't have the right stuff. Unlike most jumpers who want all RW all the time, I actually enjoy solo jumps. No goals (other than to land alive), no points, no judges. You can really just feel the sky and enjoy the scenery. Why is it always the other guy who marries the Swedish model B 24 pilot or finds big bills in a Japanese river? This was supposed to be the future. Where is my jet pack? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Come back SafecrackinPLF, we need your input! You have been away far too long. If the money float is only a few minutes how does it make a huge difference in travel distance? What is huge? What are the water velocities we are talking about on a rainy winter night? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

No Georger you are not reading it right. Not at all. Can't you see the sarcasm? Hint: it isn't directed at you. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

WOW! So you really owe your life to a parachute, (your Dad's). Obviously he found his ripcord handle in the dark. I am sure he was tumbling too. I sort of understand not doing actual jump training for aircrews. Why risk an injury? Chances are small that you will have to jump on a mission (today, not in WW 2). Tell em what to do but don't actually drop them. Makes sense. I have always wondered why they still make 28 ft C 9 type canopies for jet ejection seats and bailout rigs. A bit larger canopy would sure cut down on impact injuries. Wonder how big your Dad's canopy was? I was told that they want to minimize canopy hang time so that crews will land close together. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Maybe things will revert to the good old days Snow. How about a tethered hydrogen balloon? Hydrogen is dirt cheap, lifts far better than helium and you can make it yourself by dissociating water with DC electric power. A solar cell powered DC winch located on the ground would hoist you on a line passing through pulley affixed below the balloon. If you used a continous loop you wouldn't even need a winch drum, just a powered sheave. Could the FAA regulate such a tethered aerial object? Like an old school ski lift but vertical. Snow, being a climber, could help me choose the right rope and hardware to clip on to and release from it. Maybe no winch, just a vehicle pulling on one end of the rope, like a vertical glider tow. Maybe just a bunch of guys harnessed in and walking 6000 ft down an abandoned runway pulling their buddy up to jump altitude. When you have no money you have to get creative. Brewing our own beer would be the easy part. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

OK Jo, thanks for clearing that up