freethefly

I've often found that it is those who never felt a need to serve their country are the ones who talk like they know all there is about what happens in the military. I guess if you watch enough reruns of M.A.S.H., McHale's Navy, and Hogan's Heroes you are bound to learn something. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

LOL I went to reply and saw that you removed Rogerian! Rogerian and Gestalt are two different forms of therapy. One is person centered, the other is the process of awareness of the here and now. I am well aware of Gestalt and Fritz Perl. as a matter of fact, I have posted his famous Gestalt Prayer on this site several times. I first learned of Perls in 1973 when I was 13 years old. I was somewhat of a hippie, way back then. I had the black light poster on my bedroom wall. The Gestalt Prayer I do my thing and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, And you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you, and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful. If not, it can't be helped. Not sure what that is suppose to mean. I'll try though. I'm in no cage and behind no bars. I am more free than yourself. I do not constrain myself to a religion of any form. I am free to be who I am. You, on the other hand bind yourself to religion. You use it to justify your shortcomings. You give no credit to yourself and everything to a God. You have no trust in the power of being human and leave everything to faith. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

During NBC warfare school at Treasure Island, we had to sit for about 10-15 minutes in a room full of tear gas. May not have been torture, but it sure in the hell felt like it. Gagging, puking, retching any phlegm from your lungs. Burning eyes, nose, lungs, and skin. CS is some nasty shit. Opting out of going into the room would had been a fail for the training. All Hull Techs had to do it as we were the NBC guys on the ship. Some of the other training was being trapped below several decks while the compartments filled with seawater above your head in total darkness for egress training. Other training included finding your way through a smoke filled ship on fire. All of this happened while explosion went off and the vessel shook and rolled. This was done on the USS Buttercup, a land based training vessel, in San Diego. It was some scary shit. All of that training did come into play later on my ship. Several major floods and a number of fires. Several at sea and one major pier side fire that made national news. You didn't have to do the training. Opting out meant you lose your rating. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Why would someone want to be tortured for going to Sears (you forgot the "s".)? I could, maybe, understand torture for going to Walmart, but Sears? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

You know, I am really sick of your, and others, propensity to use that immature remark. Read my other posts, different situations require different responses. Get real, we are talking about war. You are the pinnacle of hypocrisy! From the book that you confess to follow: In the New Testament, war is universally seen as evil and Jesus emphasized peace instead. He advised us to avoid retaliation and revenge and to extend our love even to our enemies. "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. (NIV, Matthew 5:38-45) The apostle Paul and other New testament writers echoed Jesus' sentiment and expanded on it. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. "But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. (NAS, Romans 12:17-21) It is so amazing that you know absolutely nothing about the religion you say you follow. Your own God tells you to offer your enemy food and water (of course the water you would offer would be in the form of water boarding.) Your very own Jesus told those who wished to defend him: "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword." (NAS, Matthew 26:52-53) I guess this does not apply to you. Hell, let's keep going. You may even learn something! Matthew 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God." Jesus said that. Romans 12:18-19 If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." Peter 2:21-23 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you should follow in his steps. "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth." When he was abused, he did not return abuse; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he entrusted himself to the one who judges justly. Peter 3:8-11 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love for one another, a tender heart, and a humble mind. Do not repay evil for evil or abuse for abuse; but, on the contrary, repay with a blessing. It is for this that you were called--that you might inherit a blessing. For "Those who desire life and desire to see good days, let them keep their tongues from evil and their lips from speaking deceit; let them turn away from evil and do good; let them seek peace and pursue it. John 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments. Jesus said that. I guess, that pesky little commandment about not killing does not apply to you. John 15:10 "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love." Jesus supposedly said that, also. I could go on and on. I feel that you will counter with the Just War Theory formulated by man (Augustine and Aquinas.) I'll save you the trouble: There must be a just cause for the war. War must be waged only in response to certain, grave and lasting damage inflicted by an aggressor. The motive for war must be advancement of good or avoidance of evil. The ultimate objective of war must be to bring peace. Revenge, revolt, a desire to harm, dominate, or exploit and similar things are not justification for war. Every possible means of peacefully settling the conflict must be exhausted first. There must be serious prospects of success; bloodshed without hope of victory cannot be justified. The war must be declared by a legitimate authority. Private individuals or groups should seek redress of their rights through their governments, not by acts of war. The war must not cause greater evil than the evil to be eliminated. Non-combatants (civilians) must not be intentionally harmed. Prisoners and conquered peoples must be treated justly. Even though I am not a Christian and do not believe in a God, I believe these are all good words to live by. Hell, I follow the teachings of Christ more than you do, Ron! You should try practicing what you preach. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

When I was in college, the fundie nutters would be on campus daily making asses of themselves. I remember one of them carrying a sign that read" Imagine John Lennon in hell...it's easy if you try." When I was in college, I knew Stephen Hawking. You've also met Dr. Hunter S. Thompson! You've met some of the coolest people. Two of the people I wish I could meet (in HST's case, met) Lucky you. Now, if you say that you have met Brian Greene, Carl Sagan, Timothy Ferris, and Trinh Xuan Thuan... I'm going to be jealous! "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

As a Christian, you should know that waterboarding is torture. The church used it, along with the worst of the worst techniques, to force nonbelievers to submit to their delusion. Sadly, when the insane have control, bad things happen. http://www.exposingchristianity.com/Inquisition.html http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15886834 True, those who have been through this technique say the is not so painful as it is terrifying. So, could it be considered more of an act terror? And if so, would that not make the interrogators terrorist? If an American is fine with America using "Enhanced Interrogation" on prisoners then they should be fine with it when it is done to American prisoner by our enemies. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

HAWKING ROCKS!!! As for the title of this thread, it is impossible to imagine that a place that does not exist does not exist! LOL Sorry, I just could not resist "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I like Ron Paul. He is the only man in government who makes sense. I believe he is a man with sound reason and logic. Others here will disagree. Date: 05/09/2011 by Ron Paul Last week marked an important milestone in the war on terrorism for our country. Osama bin Laden applauded the 9/11 attacks. Such deliberate killing of innocent lives deserved retaliation. It is good that bin Laden is dead and justice is served. The way in which he was finally captured and killed shows that targeted retribution is far superior to wars of aggression and nation-building. In 2001 I supported giving the president the authority to pursue those responsible for the vicious 9/11 attacks. However, misusing that authority to pursue nation-building and remaking the Middle East was cynical and dangerous, as the past ten years have proven. It is tragic that it took ten years, trillions of dollars, tens of thousands of American casualties and many thousands of innocent lives to achieve our mission of killing one evil person. A narrow, targeted mission under these circumstances was far superior to initiating wars against countries not involved in the 9/11 attacks, and that is all we should have done. This was the reason I emphasized at the time the principle of Marque and Reprisal, permitted to us by the US Constitution for difficult missions such as we faced. I am convinced that this approach would have achieved our goal much sooner and much cheaper. The elimination of Osama bin Laden should now prompt us to declare victory and bring our troops home from Afghanistan and Iraq. Al Qaeda was never in Iraq and we were supposedly in Afghanistan to get Osama bin Laden. With bin Laden gone, there is no reason for our presence in the region – unless indeed it was all about oil, nation-building, and remaking the Middle East and Central Asia. Hopefully bin Laden does not get the last laugh. He claimed the 9/11 attacks were designed to get the US to spread its military dangerously and excessively throughout the Middle East, bankrupting us through excessive military spending as he did the Soviets, and to cause political dissention within the United States. Some 70 percent of Americans now believe we should leave Afghanistan yet both parties seem determined to stay. The best thing we could do right now is prove bin Laden a false prophet by coming home and ending this madness on a high note. Tragically, one result may be the acceptance of torture as a legitimate tool for pursuing our foreign policy. A free society, calling itself a republic, grounded in the rule of law, should never succumb to such evil. At the very least we should all be able to agree that foreign aid to Pakistan needs to end immediately. The idea that bin Laden was safely protected for ten years in Pakistan, either willfully or through incompetence, should make us question the wisdom of robbing American citizens to support any government around the world with foreign aid. All foreign aid and intervention needs to end. Our failed foreign policy is reflected in our bizarre relationship with Pakistan. We bomb them with drones, causing hundreds of civilian casualties, we give them billions of dollars in foreign aid for the privilege to do so, all while they protect America’s enemy number one for a decade. It is time to consider a sensible non-interventionist foreign policy as advised by our Founders and authorized by our Constitution. We would all be better off for it. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I would bet, other than what we post, most of us are very decent people who let our emotions come out. Often, those emotions are twisted by others, if not by our own selves. I defend my lifestyle and others like to knock it down. I fire back out of emotion. Sometimes, we just need to step away. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I had to do a fair amount of research, but was able to uncover this obscured article that was published a little over 2000 years ago in the Jerusalem Post news papyrus. Savior Dies After Drunk Driving Accident A man from Jerusalem died last night after supper when his chariot went out of control. Witnesses say that he was careening down the street while laughing and shouting "Follow me, I am the light and the way"! The man, Jesus of Nazareth, age 32, was found dead at the scene of the accident. Several empty bottles of wine were scattered about the wreckage. Authorities, through prayer, have been trying to contact his father, but as of yet their prayers have not been answered. Those at the last supper say that Jesus was extremely drunk. They report that they tried to take his reins away from him, but he threatened to smite them if they did. In his memory, his friends vow to start a religion in his name. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Even though my time over there was nowhere near what you guys had to put up with, I can understand your frustration. As I've stated before, my time was on a LPH off of Iran. We spent over 100 days sitting there waiting for the shit to hit. Near everyday was 24 hours at general quarters. Each day we were harassed by Iranian gunboats. It was stressful. Couldn't wait to get back to San Diego and my girlfriend. There were 3 suicides on the ship while there. One marine shot himself after a dear john letter. One cobra pilot took an overdose after one of the cobras crashed on the flight deck. We had to push the the helicopter over the side as it was burning with the two pilots still in it. And, one sailor slit his wrist and bled out after a dear john letter. My girlfriend decided she couldn't wait for me. Got a dear john from her. I was depressed about it, but didn't get so depressed that suicide looked good. I had a stack of bills to pay, thanks to her, but was happy to pay them just to be done with them. There was no fanfare when we returned. I had no girlfriend or family waiting on the pier for me. Spent several days just getting drunk. I turned 21 years old while over there. No party on my birthday. No one really seemed to even give a shit about what we did over there. There is no real record of our sacrifices. Life in the U.S. just went on without the many military men who were sitting off of a distant country waiting for war. No one seemed to even know we were there. But we knew and we were proud to have served. Thanks to a Facebook page for my old ship, a lot of us have been able to connect again. One of my old Navy buddies asked if anyone remembers the cobra we lost. No one as of yet has said anything. The thought that those pilots may had still been alive when we pushed it into the drink is still on my mind. That is one memory I wish I could forget. I really do understand your frustration. I felt the same way and often just wanted to beat the crap out of some civilian kid who was my age, but living a carefree life while others his age was protecting his freedom. I got over it. You will too, in time. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

U.S. border patrol has always been a major pain in the ass. Years ago, after finishing a test on the Canadian Pacific Railroad, i got held by the U.S. BP for several hours while they went through my belongings. They had everything scattered on the floor. I missed my flight and had to re-book another. Cost me a full day. A few years later, after finishing a test on Conrail into Niagara Falls, we decided to go over to visit the Canadian side to get night shots of the falls. One of my crew had his conversion van. Getting into Canada was no problem. Crossing back into the U.S., we were held until the early morning hours while the U.S. BP rip the mans van apart. I mean, they ripped the panels out, the seats out, flatten his tires... they destroyed his van looking for drugs. A few months later, testing C.P. rail in Maine, we had to cross into Canada for the tie-in so the rail test car in Canada can pick up the test on that side. We had our paper work in-line for the movement into Canada and then run in reverse back into the U.S.. We only moved 3 rail lengths into Canada. The Canadians were great about it. The U.S, BP held us up for the remainder of the day while they searched the rail car with dogs. The test across the border lasted for about 10 minutes. We never even stepped off of the rail car. When I finished a 7 month long test of the FNM in Mexico. We got held for a day by the U.S. BP at Ciudad Juarez/El Paso while they tore everything apart and searched our belongings for drugs. Again they brought on dogs. Cost us a day of lost time. 7 months before, we entered Mexico at Laredo/Nuevo Laredo. The Mexicans were good to us just like the Canadians were. U.S. BP seems to be boot stomping assholes. They always treated us as if we were criminal. Coming on board with assault rifles and dogs is just bullshit. Always a major pain. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Pipes have very little to do with emission output, unless your mufflers have a catalyst . Fuel/air ratio has more to do with emission output. That and properly tuned. This thread has gone too far down the tangent track. I'm done talking about motorcycles. I get far to defensive about my lifestyle. I'm going for a ride. Everyone have a safe weekend. Including you, Belgian Draft. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Excuse me, I guess my sarcasm wasn't thick enough for you...It should've read something like 1000 ba zillion Gillion years...I needed to make sure there was enough time for non-exsistent particles to morph into a broom. I didn't take your post to be serious. But, 1000 ba zillion gillion years does make sense. Give or take a few trillion years. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Coming from a pro, I'll take that as a compliment. My Fatboy is not very loud. My Norton is extremely loud as I run open shorty drags on her. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

And, I should get a good ass whupping for such an infraction Actually the flag hands in a doorway that is seldom used. There are two ways into the room. It hangs there because it looks cool when the sunlight from the windows in that room shine through it. On one side - correct. On the other - it's an infraction. You can only kick half of my ass. Deal? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

You're right, it is. YIKES!!!! That reminds me. When I lived on Main Street, in St. Charles, MO., I was right across the street from the first capitol building and the visitor center. On most days, the guy who hung the State flag, hung it upside down. He would hang it on the mast from the second story window. From his point of view, it was correct. From the street, it was wrong. I use to yell over to him that it was upside down. We always got a good laugh about it. I even took pictures of it "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

You started it. You questioned my experience on a motorcycle after I pointed out that traffic laws do little to make people drive safer. People still ignore the law. You are NOT a biker. You wouldn't last one fucking mile with the big boys. You wouldn't be welcomed. You have so much hate for people. You advocate putting poison in the poison that is already on the streets solely to kill addicts. What kind of black shit flows through your veins? I wouldn't ride with you nor would I even jump with you. You are amongst the worst kind of people I know and even worst. Your hatred towards others is shameful. Sadly your mother did not miscarriage your sad sack ass. And, LOUD PIPES DO SAVE LIVES. Kindly go fuck your yourself with a hot welding rod. Moot? Your hatred for unions is well known. To say that the hard work of the unions to bring change is moot is about as idiotic as anything you have ever posted. Oh, I did not post my entire history. I posted the history of the Midwest/St. Louis club scene as it is part of my history and that of others who come to this site. It is also part of the history of Harley-Davidson. I am sure that the hardcore riders on this site will find it to be interesting. I am positive that Gypsy is well aware of the history, but may be unaware of the formation of a segment of the outlaw clubs that rode out of the Midwest. Or, he may be aware as he rode out from this area. Normiss might find it interesting as well Aggie Dave. Don't be so high on your fucking horse to think it was for you. I'll point out that the term "Outlaw Biker" has nothing to do with criminal activity. It is a term imposed upon those who do not abide by the rules and regulations of the A.M.A.. It was also the A.M.A. who started the 1%er classification. P.S. Kindly shove your hate up your ass. You know nothing about brotherhood. You couldn't stand your ground if your fucked ass was glued to it. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I don't expect the motorcycle enthusiast and others to understand the biker lifestyle. I really do not give a fuck. Merely riding a motorcycle does not make someone a biker. I am a biker and damn proud of it. Gypsy is a biker. I knew Gypsy back in the early '80's in San Diego. Left S.D. after a short stint in Descanso. The majority of my friends are bikers. Some still wear colors. I was recently asked to come prospect for the H.A. in St. Louis. turned it down. Told Johnny B that my clubber days are over. I rode with the Road Saints M.C. back in the '80's (first met them while working at Frank Muirs Texaco near North City area in 1975. They gave me work at For Bikers Only screen printing biker shirts) and early '90's as well as the Brotherhood in Texas. The Road Saints came out of of the Bone Shakers M.C.. Many of the Bone Shakers became El Forasteros from out of Iowa and Kansas City. The late and great David Mann was an El Forastero and this club was mostly responsible for the racked styled chopper. Many of the St. Louis El Forasteros became Saddle Tramps. This caused friction between the Road Saints and the Saddle Tramps. Turf wars broke out at the old Rainbow Lounge on St. Charles Rock Road in the '70's and carried over to Froggy's on the East side in the '80's. Due to a shooting when a Saddle Tramp unloaded a pump shotgun through a window one night after Dink flashed his gun at one of them after they started shit with us, Mexico Joe now has a very strict policy of no weapons, including knifes. He waves the wand on you before you can enter. It was a Saddle Tramp who shot me at John Wayne's Corral, a tavern on St. Louis Ave. and Blair in Hyde Park in North City. I stabbed that fuck head. Wish I had killed him. Honestly, you wouldn't last a mile with these guys, given your attitude (I know that you would never want anything to do with true bikers.) Chances are they would stomp your ass and take your bike. Hell, you should had seen what the El Forasteros did to a Bandito in Wichita, KS. when he refused to remove his colors on their turf. They cut his bike into pieces in a parking lot. You do not fuck with them and you give them the respect that they deserve when on their turf. I hung up the patch some years back. My bad day on main street was due to idiots not paying attention. I ride as if every cage is aiming for me and keep my head on the swivel. Anger management? I'll let someone know that they fucked up if they cut me off. You claim that you had less than 5 close calls in 30 years. I call bullshit. You are either a liar or you have very few miles off of the street you live on. I was tough and very mean in my younger days. I grew up in the Ferguson/Jennings area in St. Louis and mostly worked in the North St. Louis area as a teenager. Anyone who is familiar with this area can tell you that you have to be tough in order to survive riding on those streets. I don't expect you to understand my world. I imagine that you are a dues paying member of the A.M.A.. I know what they think of the 1%er. Fuck them. Hell, I met a Boozefighter about a month ago and was invited to ride with them. I had no idea that any of them were even in the Midwest. I was surprised to see one of them here in Mount Vernon at the gas station. The BFMCs are the ones who first claimed the title 1%er after the A.M.A. denounced them after Wino Willie decided to join a race by crashing through a fence to get on the track. That and the Hollister 4th of July incident. The BFMC started the "outlaw biker" lifestyle. I wouldn't have it any other way. It was fun and a hell of a ride. Now, done with that. Back to legislation Much of the laws put in place came from unions pushing for change. Even still, processing plants try hard to get around the law. The recent nation wide egg recall is evidence of this. More than half a billion eggs had to be destroyed. The conditions in the hen plants were a disgrace. The owner ignored every law in place. This and many other recent recalls of food as started more legislation. It may work for a short period, but owner/operators will find ways to ignore them if they cut into their profits. I understand that you feel that more laws are the answer to everything. I say you are wrong. More drug laws will not work. More mine safety laws will not work, and more food safety laws will not work. Hell. speed limit laws do not work. When I am doing 70mph down highway 44, I am being passed by everyone from teenagers to old ladies. Assholes will drive right up your ass if you do not move out of their way. Back in the day, I use to carry heavy ball bearings to put through radiators of people who would tail-gate me on the freeway. That and my long handle ball peen hammer for smacking cars that cut me off. Think what you will of that. I don't give a fuck. Laws are only good if people abide by them. Truth is, I'm just as guilty. I assume, you are too, as is anyone reading this. These days, however, I do mind my P's & Q's, mostly. Given the chance, I will crank her past 100mph. I do agree that some laws are needed. Yet, stacking laws on top of laws is an indication that legislation is not the cure all answer to a problem. The cure is for all of us to pull our heads from our ass's and to pay the utmost attention to what is happening around us. Given the recent spell of landing fatalities, would you say that legislation is needed to stop the carnage? I will say no. What is needed is for people to obey the BSR's that are in place already. Adding legislation would would only serve to hinder our sport. It is really that simple. Pay attention and do what is right. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I've been riding for 46 years. 35 of those years have been on the street since 1976. I have only two accidents. One, I hit a squirrel at Otay Lake, in a curve at around 70-80mph. My fault as we were racing when we should not had been. 2nd one, I was rear-ended by a drunk at a stop light. I ride daily. I have more miles under my ass than you will ever have. I raced motocross as a child and as a teenager. In the 60's, I raced a 1967 Suzuki 80. In 1970, I moved up to a Hodaka Super Rat. 1973, I raced a Yamaha 125MX and then a 175MX. My last motocross bike was a CZ 380. My first street bike was a Honda CB 360, then a Kawasaki 750. 1980 was my Sportster/Roadster. I then built my rigid Norton 750, which I still have. It is now a stroked 938. My next bike was my 1975 shovel that I built from parts. I parted that bike out and bought a brand new 91 FLSTF. My current sled is my '05 FLSTFI. I have rode through near every state as well as down to Cabo San Lucas at the tip of the Baja of California. I have rode with a patch on my back in two clubs and have affiliation with several others and earned 1%er status. I doubt you have anywhere near the experience and skills that I have on a motorcycle. I won't even argue this. Comparing today with 100 years ago is just plain ridiculous. But, if you wish to, I'll insert that it was the unions that pushed the change. Yet, unions can only do so much. It is the owner/operators who need to step up and make it actually happen. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

They're popping up everywhere! "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I did a search on Gillespie. He was a retired NASA engineer. Seems this theory has been put out about 5 years ago. Gillespie has since died. I'll counter with this, put out by NASA. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

No, it has not. Coal and other mining companies delinquent in paying penalties are a problem for the Mine Safety and Health Administration and the Treasury Department. MSHA had "16,438 penalty cases with $56 million in unpaid, delinquent penalties on Feb. 25, 2011 by operators, contractors and individuals," Mine Safety and Health News reports. http://irjci.blogspot.com/2011/04/delinquent-penalties-for-mine-safety.html The problem is so bad that some feel that more legislation is needed. http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/7301/congressman_another_disaster_needed_to_pass_mine_safety_legislation/ They can legislate the coal out of their butts, but unless companies do the right thing and comply, not much will change. The mining industry has a huge lobby and deep pockets. They'll fight anything that comes their way. The only thing that will make safety the foremost concern is actual prison time for owners and operators. Merely threats of huge fines do nothing as they are held up in appeals. You only need to do a search to see that legislation has done very little to curb the problem of tainted food on the market. ConAgra is one of the biggest violators. Mere fines do little to curb the problem. Again, owner/operators need to step up and put public safety ahead of profits. Actual prison time for violators is needed as fines do very little to sway them to do the right thing. True. And fines do very little to sway people to drive safely. At least once a day, I have to take pervasive actions to avoid being hit by a cager. Several weeks ago I had 5 near hits in less than 30 minutes. One was a young woman pulling out of the McDonald's. She was talking on a cell phone. Forced me to take the oncoming lane. I let her know how I felt about that. I was not very nice with my choice of words. Fuck her. Less than 5 minutes later, going through one of the few traffic lights in town on Mount Vernon Blvd. (same road the McD is on) an older woman turned left on me. I chased that cunt down and gave her the finger along with a few choice words. Pulling out of the bank minutes later, some asswipe decided he needed my lane more than I did. He rolled up his window and refused to talk to me. He had to back up as my bike was blocking him. I'm sure he heard every word I said. Less than a few minute later some dickhead pulled out of the Casey's in front of me. This dick puller was looking down. I'm sure he was probably texting. I pulled alongside him and let him know exactly what I thought of him causing me to swerve around his rust bucket truck. At the grocery store parking lot minutes later, granny-can't-drive just about took me out as she cut between cars and pulled into my path. I'm sure she heard words that she has never heard before. My point? if a cop were to pull these idiots over, all they would get is a ticket, if even that. I much rather chain whip some sense into their skulls, but then that would make me a criminal. Legislation does very little to curb a problem, unless real consequence is attached to their actions. But, how much sense would it make to fill the jails with bad drivers. It would make no sense and it would be very costly to the taxpayers as well as lost time on the job. We really cannot legislate away problems. Real solutions are needed. I'm not real sure what those solution should be. I do know that fines and even prison has done next to nothing as our prisons are overcrowded and the problems are still rampant. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Should this then be policy for everyone who drinks, smokes, or engage in any activity that is a danger to a persons well being whether they are on the government dime or not? Should people who do not drink pay the same premiums that a drinker pays. Use alcohol and your premiums should be far greater than the person who does not drink? Same with smoking. I'm on my third week without a smoke. I don't drink. The most dangerous things I do is skydive and ride a motorcycle. As for skydiving, I know a number of people who have injured themselves and lied to the insurance company about how the injury occurred. They never mentioned that it happened skydiving. Bottom line, does it really matter what you were doing when you were injured? As for drug testing, should we lump a certain segment of society into a classification that force them to submit to testing at the expense of the taxpayers? How many people do you believe they will catch? Will it be worth the millions (if not billions) of dollars to snare a few? My opinion is no it will not be worth the overall cost as it will only push us further into a prison society. History has proven that we cannot legislate our way out of a problem, no matter how small or large that problem may be. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young