freethefly

I'm sorry you feel that way... If, for some reason, you disobeyed your god, would you not fear the alternative? The alternative being cast into a lake of fire to burn for eternity as Christians believe will happen if they disobey. Now tell that to a very small child and it will instill fear into the child's mind. The same happens with some adults. More so with people whom never had any (or very little) contact with the world outside their immediate area. In this regards, missionaries do more harm than good. Erase the local culture and install another. Pitting religion against religion creates conflicts that ultimately leads to warfare. The victors then proclaim that their "God" has triumphed over "evil." A prime example are the American Indian tribes. Only after an Indian proclaimed that the Christian "God" was the only "one and true God" were he or she allowed off of the reservation. An Indian had to relinquish his or her identity and beliefs in order to end their suffering at the hands of the "good Christians." Gladly, that is no longer allowed to happen. Christianity flourished out of not love and acceptance but out of violence, fear and discrimination. I will also say the same for the majority of religions that have come and gone and for the religions to be. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

You are wrong. We are each born ignorant. What one knows, one has to learn first. An example would be language. You are taught the language and dialect that you speak. If I were raised in Australia I, most likely, would had been taught to speak Australian English. Being born in America, however, I was taught to speak American English. Likewise, if I were born in a village deep in the Amazon rain forest and never subjected to the English language, I would be learned to speak the local language. Even if I were born from English parents (but not raised from such.) The same goes with ones belief in a deity. You are not born dumber than a vat of shit, and a vat of shit is not dumb (being that a vat of shit cannot learn as it lacks the capacity to do so.) You are taught a particular god from an early age. It is often embedded into a small child's mind by the use of fear and the idea that a god will burn their body for eternity if they do not believe. "God will cast you into a lake of fire if you do not believe!" As a very small child, that type of reasoning seemed to be extremely scary. Even more so than Dracula or the Wolfman. As I aged, I learned that god was no more real than Dracula or the Wolfman, and therefore, there was nothing to fear. I realized this by age 10. The lessons that brings a person to "God" are based on fear and fear alone. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

As long as they are doing the posted speed limit, they are doing nothing wrong. It is against the law to go faster than the posted limit to pass someone who is doing the posted limit. But of course, I would never go faster than what is posted "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

This is on the list of possiblities. I'm just afraid I'll never get my husband out of there... LOL g If you do the tour, be aware that they do not allow cameras and/or cell phones (or any type of recording device) inside the plant. Be sure to wear steel toe boots or you will not be allowed inside. They do provide safety glasses if you do not have a pair. The tour cost about $20.00. Cameras/video and cell phones are allowed inside the museum. The museum cost is around $16.00. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The Harley-Davidson factory tour and museum. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

My nephew tells me the Victory police bike has a plate under them that shields them from gunfire in the event of a fire fight, after you lay it down. Ryan's not a motor cop, he's the K-9 guy. One of his buddies is a motor cop. They say they like them over the Harley. Ryan's been looking for a Harley and Lenexa will be auctioning off theirs. Told him he should put in a bid. Bring it to me and I'll rebuild the engine (if needed) and put a killer paint job on her. His buddy has been trying to talk him into buying a Victory. Told him to tell Tim "in this family, we ride Harleys, not snowmobiles with wheels!" Personally, I think Victorys are just butt ugly and gaudy as hell. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The decision was made in 1947. 1948 is the year of Israel's independence. Israel claims that the land the Palestinians know as their home was promised to them by some god. That is ridiculous to claim and there is absolutely no such proof of any such god. What Israel is doing would not be tolerated if any other country or State were to expand their borders by illegally occupying and building on land not theirs. What is applied to other countries should apply to Israel. Beck is in the same league as many in his profession. It's all about ratings, sensationalism, and money. No true convictions. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

It doesn't, which only supports my point. In the amendments, there is the right to equality under the law, which is where most people seem to be heading. Currently that equality is certainly being used in terms of who any person, regardless of orientation, can legally marry. The original thread to this that you missed due to pruning was Amazon claiming that people had the right (in the Constitution no less) to marry anyone they wanted (among other things). I'm just pointing out that's not true whatsoever. Well, I basically agree with you at some level as I do with Jeanne, at some level. The constitution does not protect the institution of marriage nor does it provide rights to any one group or another. The issue is not a matter of constitutional rights and the federal government should wash it's hands of the matter. The issue is a State matter as wording in the 9th, 10th and 14th Amendments alludes to such. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Pat Robertson and those like him are nothing but thieves fleecing the pockets of the delusional sheep they tend to. Only one preacher has my respect (and I being an atheist!) and that person is Larry Rice. He puts not one dime in his pocket and gives everything he has to helping those in need. If you give any cash to anyone, give it to Larry Rice. http://www.newlifeevangelisticcenter.org/ Rev. Rice is a liberal, so the RWC tend to hate him with a passion. Israel is nothing more than land grabbers claiming rights to land they lost more than two thousand years ago. Glenn Beck is a fake. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I can't marry a man either. So.. you lied when you took the oath...got it... “I, (state your name), having been appointed a (rank) in the United States (branch of service), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foriegn and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the office upon which I am about to enter. So help me God.” Constitution supports my position at the moment, not yours. Thanks for playing, however :) How does the Constitution support your position? Where within the Constitution is marriage between any persons mention? I would imagine that you believe the U.S. Constitution provides the right to "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." If so, you would be wrong. It does not. Neither does it state that America is a "free country." No one fights for "freedom." When I served in the military, I was under the impression that that is what I was serving to preserve. The more I learned about the Constitution, the more I realized that "freedom" was not a part of the document. It is amazing just how little the majority of Americans know about the U.S. Constitution or that the D.O.I. is merely a list of charges against King George lll and the parliament. It is my belief that any person wishing to serve in the military must first be able to write an essay on the U.S. Constitution and the D.O.I. or pass a class with a 90% or better grade. You should at least know what you are actually protecting. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

So, explain why your god did not marry Mary before/after knocking her up and disappearing for about 30 years if marriage is so important to him. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Same here, my battery crapped out last week. The only H-D I've ever had problems with was my 1980 Sportster/Roadster. Alternator went south several times and then the harness fried. Built my Norton chopper after that. Put together a 1972/75 FL and road her around the country. Not one problem. Not even a single drip of oil. Bought the 91 Fatboy brand new and then tore the engine down and built it for speed. Over 250,000 miles and never had one issue with her. Couldn't be happier with the 05 Fatboy. Although I'm not overly impressed with the twin cam. The Evo was a much more powerful engine (longer stroke=more torque.) I have considered stroking and boring the 05, but the trade off in doing so is mpg and street-ability. Big engines produce big heat and heavy traffic can destroy a big air cooled engine on a hot day. Yet when I consider what I did to my Evo, head work, big cam, bigger carb, exhaust, ignition, and 1rst and 2nd gear swap I should be able to do something similar on my twin cam. It would be fairly cheap to do. The only thing that I won't be able to do is punching out the heads for the larger intake valves (larger intakes will produce greater air flow and produce more torque) (and possibly decking the heads to up the compression) as I do not have a mill. As with any motorcycle, longevity is the product of proper maintenance. I think that today's newer riders see maintenance as a chore and prefer to either avoid it altogether and then complain when the bike breaks down or rely on the local dealership to remind them of when maintenance is needed. I view maintenance as being fun to do and would never consider letting anyone wrench on my sled. Being a certified technician and having every H-D PHD in my book, allowing someone else to touch my bike would be a sin. What I can do, anyone else can do. Buy a manual, read it and get to know your bike on a personal level. You'll be better for doing so. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

You know where the new harleys were designed don't you? Stuttgart, Germany Yup, the Porsche engineering team helped in the design of the Hardly a Harley V-Rod Revolution engine. I road a few of them after doing the schedule maintenance on them. Not at all impressed, but then I've been riding a a real V-Twin for near 30 years. I'm kind of partial in that regard. Guys who do own the V-Rod do swear by them and they are well designed. It's just a matter of taste. However, they do not hold their value like a real Harley does. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I see your point , freethefly. You are right! The Bible does suggest that Mary concieved Gods' child without benefit of marriage. But this thread isn't about illicit relationships between Biblical charachters.(I'm sorry) This thread is about polygamy and heterosexual marriages. Do you have anything to add to the discussion of polygamy and homosexual marriages, freethefly? If not I'm sure we'll have a discussion of the virgin birth in the next few days. Watch for a thread title something like " Virgin Birth" and then you can chime in ! But thanks for reading and gosh darn.., just being you and part of the group! Golly gee willikers, Mr. Dan, I guess maybe you are right! But I have been known to be wrong from time to time and I do believe that this may be one of those times! Yet seeing that you are new to this website (recently registered July 4th, or maybe just a new persona as I suspect you may have been banned recently) you really do not know me. My take on polygamy? Marry all the women you want. Hell, I've had a number of wives, but never been married. I also have two daughters from different women. Never seen a need to be married. Most marriages end in divorce anyways. Why go through the hassle? Besides, why take the chance at losing at my motorcycles and everything else with a divorce? A polygamist divorce would be a nightmare compared to divorcing just one woman! The gay marriage? They can do whatever they want. Whatever they do does not concern me at all. Well gosh diddly do Danny boy, chief of the thread police, did that satisfy your highly tuned intellectual curiosity as to whether or not I had anything to add? Thank you just for being the many different persona's you have been over the last year or so! You are so jokingly entertaining. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Didn't he bang an underage virgin that squirted out an illegitimate kid? Seems to me that this God feller wasn't all to worried about any nuptial. Why would he give a shit or two about anyone else? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

My nephew told me that his department (Lenexa Police) is now using Victory motorcycles. Checked it out on Polaris's website and sure enough there it is. http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory-Motorcycles/Experience/Pages/000PasTx1.aspx "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I got married to my Norton chopper back in the 80's. We separated several times, but she always came back. What can I say? The bitch loves me. I did cheat on her with a 91 FLSTF for 11 years. She was really sweet and curvy. I thought about divorcing the Norton to marry the Harley, but never did. The Harley left me in 02. Well, I have been cheating on my Norton, once again, for a number of years with an 05 FLSTFI. Not really cheating as the Norton knows of the Harley. She doesn't seem to mind that I ride another bike. What I am wondering is would anyone think I was strange if I were married to two motorcycles? Is there any law against doing so? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-illness/ Psychopathy The category of psychopathy is one of the more controversial within psychiatry. The closest that the diagnostic manual DSM-IV-TR comes to this diagnosis is antisocial personality disorder, and the whole category of personality disorder has come under critical scrutiny. Antisocial personality disorder, and the corresponding diagnoses for youth (behavioral disorders and oppositional defiant disorder), have been especially questioned because they include as symptoms destructive and often criminal behavior. There is a great deal of suspicion of any attempt to excuse the symptomatic behavior of psychopaths. (Black, 1999). The philosophical literature on the moral responsibility of psychopaths is extensive; it was started by Murphy, (1972) Some of the debate hangs on the correct explanation of the behavior of psychopaths. Psychopaths are often intelligent and calculating, yet they are also impulsive and pay as little regard for their own long-term interests as they do for that of other people. They can be very emotional, yet they also seem to lack some emotional capacities. In particular, it is still an open question to what extent they comprehend the wrongness of their actions, and can be said to have a conscience. If their moral understanding is extremely limited—for example an ability to list the kinds of actions that would be classed as morally wrong, but no ability to empathize with those who suffer—then there is still philosophical work to be done in deciding what this implies for moral responsibility, punishment or treatment. Another characterization of psychopaths is that they are simply people with deeply flawed characters and no use for morality. This characterization is probably closer to media portrayals of psychopaths than clinical reality, but it still raises philosophical issues. In particular, we can ask, if a person has a bad character, and lacks any interest in or feeling for the welfare of others, then he may not be able to behave well. How can we blame someone for doing what is in his nature? This is an issue for moral theory generally, and arises especially for virtue theory. It is of particular practical consequence when it comes to judging psychopaths, if this account of their behavior matches any real psychopaths. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

If the cost is innocent lives within our own borders, then the cost is far to high if only to protect the rights of the very few. We need to outlaw skydiving then. And driving. Both of those cost innocent lives within our own borders. Also bathtubs. You know how many people die each year from hitting their head in the bathtub? Congrats on your successful completion of the Mike Neal school of debate. However, your rant makes you sound unstable - now where did I put that NICS contact number....? No offense, Southern, I just could not resist. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I wasn't jumping on you. I was posing a question concerning how you (or anyone) may feel if a victim were a loved one. i am sure that you do realize that I am a gun owner. I have own a variety of guns over the years from an AR-15 to an Uzi. Though, I will admit that there is no real reason to have an Uzi, other than they are fun to fire (extremely expensive to do so.) I use to be against near any legislation concerning gun control (even after being shot myself.) That is until 1995. One incidence being my spiral into depression. The other being my mother being pistol whipped during a hold up at the Sally's Beauty Supply that she worked at. I finally realized that certain people should not have guns. Some should never have access. I really have no idea how to limit complete access without denying every person their constitutional right. It is unreasonable to think that access can be completely denied, even with safeguards in place. Yet, if safeguards are ignored completely, then we should be prepared for whatever happens and for what will follow. I would hate to see further legislation against us who do follow the law due to actions of those who should had never been in possession in the first place. Marc, I believe we are on the same track, only moving at different speeds. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

If the cost is innocent lives within our own borders, then the cost is far to high if only to protect the rights of the very few. There are laws in place to prevent the deaths/injury of people by those who should not have guns. Those laws need to be followed, not ignored. Again, I am not saying that solely because a person has a mental illness that they should be denied their rights. I am saying that those who demonstrate by the criteria in place should have their firearms removed until they are no longer a danger to them self and/or others (I am basing this from my own personal experience.) http://www.psyweb.com/DSM_IV/jsp/dsm_iv.jsp "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Can you define highly unstable? Can you tell me what diagnostic criteria or test you would use for this? From my personal experience of being suicidal in 1995 - highly unstable. I'm not a mental health professional, yet I have experience in the system. When I was committed for observation, I did see a number of people who should not even have a plastic butter knife. As for criteria? Again, I'm not a mental health professional, but I would think what a person may say, post online, behavior in public... I believe these and other guidelines are already in place, just not being used to weed out the very few who are dangerous to themselves, their family, and the public. No need for more laws. Just use what is already in place. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I have no problem with a person who has a mental illness possessing a firearm. I have a problem with the person who has demonstrated that they are highly unstable having a firearm. I have stated this earlier. I feel the same about those with HIV infecting others on purpose. I mostly date women who are HIV+. I have been with women who are HIV-, but I do inform them of my status and precaution is used. Not because it is the law (which it should be), but because it is the right thing to do. If a person demonstrates the intention to physically harm another person, whether by means of HIV, a firearm, knife, or any means possible, then yes, their rights need to be and should be revoked. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

So, you would be fine with your loved ones being shot and killed by a person who has been diagnosed to be mentally unstable? After all, there is a cost for "freedom!" To hell with another person's right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" as long as those diagnosed to be unstable can run the streets with firearms. Right? Should concern for the "general welfare" of the people be struck from the constitution in favor of those diagnosed to being unstable? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Cho and Loughner are the more high-profile cases that garnered national attention. They are the extreme cases of what goes/can go wrong. There are more cases that got little attention by the media. One can do an internet search and find pages of instances of those who have been diagnosed to be highly unstable in possession of a firearm acting in a dangerous manner. All to often they end up shot dead by the police. It's not just about protecting the public, but the mentally ill as well. It's sad for the families as well as for the police when precautions could had been taken. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young