GQ_jumper

Damn you're good. Very close. But, they weren't stacked up like wood. Al Qaeda in Iraq was started by a Jordanian, who fought and trained in Afghanistan. After we invaded he went to Iraq and joined up with with Kurdish militants, foreign fighters, and the Sunni Iraqi insurgency, swearing allegiance to bin Laden in 2004.*** Kurdish militants huh? If you are going to argue something get the facts straight, the Kurdish militants themselves with the Special Forces detachments that moved into the north and provided the ground force to help us push south and meet the rest of the US military in Baghdad. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

People are ignorant, there's no excuse for taking out your anger towards the government on soldiers. The people protesting fail to realize that they are protesting against the power that gives them the right to do so. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

You associated dislike of war to "spineless cowards." My personal opinion happens to be that if you like war, and wish you could spend more time fighting in a war, you probably need some serious therapy. If that offends you because it hits close to home, I apologize, but that's my take on it. I hate war and will avoid it if possible. If my country call me in a time of need, however, I will go and fight my hardest.Quote I've never associated dislike of war to beng a coward, ou put words in my mouth. You knocked me for having a passion for my chosen profession so I took the extreme opposite and used it as an example. You were the one who found a way to liken it to yourself, that one is on you, I never said that. And once again I will reiterate that I never took a shot at you in any of my posts, yet once again you knock me for what I do, you should go take a good hard look at yourself next time ou feel you are in a position to consider yourself superior to another. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I'm no hero, that's for sure. I just have a hard time understanding how anyone coule like war. I like ice cream, playing guitar, and pretty women. War - not so much. I understand how close you can be with the people you serve with and how rewarding it can be to complete your mission. Fun/enjoyable? - nah. Rewarding? - can be. Quote So because you have a hard time understanding something you insult it? Great way to get through life. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Not if you were taught to proofread your own material before turning it in for a grade. This is not a term paper, so who gives a fuck other than people w/o an argument. The point of my assertion was that lawrocket, a guy who, like me, makes plenty of errors, but he decides to cell me on em. Again, who gives a fuck if wto (intentional) letters are flipped or one is mising (intentional)? Funny you shoud say that, because I remember a while back you used the exact same argument about typos in an argument to prove how much smarter than e you were. Funny how that argument is meaningless in your eyes when turned around on you. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

"No soldiers ever dies in vain in combat"------------------------------------------------------------------------------That is the biggest lie I have ever heard spewed on this website. They (the military or whomever) sure as fuck have indocrinated you well sir. Sad Quote Knock me all you want but do't you dare knock those who continue to lay it all on the line for you. Just because you chose to talk a different path in life makes you no smarter or better than any of us and th fact that you think it does is a true sign of ignorance. I say that no soldier dies for nothing because regardless of why we are there or whose policies we are fighting for we're there with our teammates so we have something worth fighting for despite how meaningless the war itself is. If you can't understand that than I'm glad you got out, trust me, it was no loss to us. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Like the current Commander In Chief? I certainly agree that he is a spineless coward who is afraid to put it on the line to do what is right.Quote I'm no the bggest Bush fan in the world either, like I have said before, but just taking shots at him doesn't do much to further the thread, at least give us some points to argue, that way everyone can tie more into their slanderous comments, god you people suck at knocking politicians History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

So, since I didn't like war, I am a coward? My medals tell a different story. The two have nothing to do with eachother. Many of our greatest military learders despised war. Most soldiers don't like war. But when in a war, by all means fight hard and win. But to say you LIKE it is a bit nutty. "Hey, my buddy's face is a pile of mush..... Isn't this GREAT???!!" Quote I don't recall calling you a spineless coward, nor did I knock your service, you took a shot at me because I have a passion for what I do. I don't look at war as something that drags me unwillingly away from home, I look at it as an opportunity to accomplish the things I grew up wanting to do, and moreso an opportunity to live with a "family" for the duration of the deployment. I never took any shots at you or those who don't like the war, howeer when you made your comment your crosshairs were centered on my back, you took a shot at me so I rebutted with an example that was just as extreme. the difference was mine wasn't directed at any individual. Quit trying to compare me to someone who adores death and carnage while making yourself out to be a hero, we've both served and have different opinions about the events that transpired during our service, that makes you no better than me and I really don't fuckin appreciate those low blows. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

damn the "double STFU back" I stand correcteed and will now.........STFU Me too I'm about sick of the sarcasm from you two, both of you STFU!!! It's inapropriate Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to STFU and go to the gym History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I would say at least half of the returning vets I've talked to have reiterated that things are not going well in Iraq. All of the multi-war vets I've talked to (in person) have reiterated that. Granted, it has only been a handful that fall into that category, but there certainly isn't universal, or anything resembling universal approval of the war or the way it is going by the soldiers returning from fighting in it. Quote Ok shots back and forth at each others comments aside, how recently have you gotten to talk to people, what do they do for the military, and where in Iraq were they? The reason I ask is a lot of the people I know who have negative things to say about the progress are the ones who never leave the wire, yes it's true, some people spend 15 months in combat and never get their sorry asses off of a FOB. Yet they will proclaim to be experts on how things are going over there, the closest thing they have seen to a situation getting worse was they day the dining facility burned the meatloaf. Also, the general sentiment among troops that things are improving is more seen in those who have been multiple times, coming out of my second trip everyone had a negative opinion of what was happening because we were going otu and rolling people up nonstop, yet no matter how many people we captured the target list seemed to stay the same size. My most recent trip changed a lot of people's attitudes, look at all the news articles about how tribes are signing contracts and pledging support to help flush AQ out, they are fullfilling their obligations and a lot of the responsibility is being lifted off our shoulders. Their was a lot of belief in what we were doing at first, then it slowly dwindled and turned into a feeling that we were going nowhere and it's starting to turn around again. Obviously different parts of the country are seeing a different degree of success, but as a whole there have been huge steps in the right direction. I watched a target list for a certain province almost completely dissapear in less than a months time when villagers started stepping up and making the effort to take their fate into their own hands. And AQ has only helped us by conducting attacks on innocents, they shot themselves in the foot. You are right in saying that their will always be returning soldiers who don't believe in the progress, some people have horrible experiences, that's the nature of the beast, it doesn't matter how many miracles you accomplish its hard to see something as positive when your friends died next to you. However the people who get the opportunity to see things on a larger scale as well as get the opportunity to go out on the streets and work with the people who want to help the fight have a much different perspective on things. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

A good friend of mine worked as an EMT for a while and listening to his stories made my blood boil at times, they were constantly attacked by the people they were trying to help. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Yes, the different factions in Iraq have a long history of not getting along. However, SH was largely able to keep them from killing one another off. Was he able to stop all violence? Nope. Was he able to mitigate it some? Absolutely. Quote You just confirmed that your original statement was completely false, nice, that was easier than I thought. We are able to mitigate some of the violence, no one can stop it all, the people who have that power are the ones who let childish arguments drive them to murder. My teammates and I often likened the trible clashes to little kids on the playground arguing about who was a bigger meanie head because they disagreed on which of the X-men was the coolest. Seriously, their reasons for hating each other are typically that pointless and insignificant, they have just been raised in a culture where violence is the answer to all, and their former leader only helped to further that attitude with his actions which were witnessed on a much larger scale. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Until Kalend's fatality numbers begin to fall propaganda suggesting a sea-change is just that, propaganda. Quote Fatality numbers are being used by those who are against the war, its all propaganda, but people coming home who have positive things to say about the way things are going, that isn't. those are personal experiences, and despite the fact that newspapers and politicians will twist everything they can to further their point it doesn't change the fact that things are moving forward over there. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Can you imagine having a President with the same attitude? (Likes war, and it's the only thing that keeps him interested in doing his job)? Quote *sigh* you ever tried convincing a redneck that pro wrestling was fake, that's about what its like posting on here sometimes. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Shit dude.... really? I hope you aren't in a leadership position. I've been in war too, and to me, it fucking sucked ass. Quote You're right, we don't need people like me around, we need spineless cowards who are afraid to put it on the line to do what's right leading us out there, they'll get the job done History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

was able to maintain order in the country with far less bloodshed than the Iraqis have experienced since he was removed from powerQuote This statement is pure BS, I can't stand when people use this argument. Why do you say that? Just because CNN and Fox News weren't there before the war to report on every attack on civilians doesn't mean they weren't happening. The fighting between tribes and villages has been going on since long before we got there, you only know about it now because the news reporters are there to talk about it. I've talked to many civilians over there who will attest to the fact that they were fighting so and so tribe for years. The difference is that under SH only certain tribes could get away with conducting attacks because they had the support of their dictator. Nowadays the people are being left to the fate they choose for themselves, things are never going to change until people over their grow up and put petty arguments on the table to be dealt with instead of arguing them with suicide bombs and kidnappings. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Lucky, I agree that the economy deserves the majority of media coverage at the moment, trust me I want the next pres. to fix it, I'm in the hurt locker right now owning a home I can't live in and looking at all my retirement investment going down the crapper. but I'm sure you can see the irony just like I can in seeing people suddenly stop talking about something when the situation is beginning to turn around. I've done it a time or to, things don't go the way I had hoped so I conveniently avoid the argument to keep from hearing the "I told ya so" statements, we all do it, whether inentionally or inadvertantly. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I see them as a tribute as well as politcal. Some will use them to push their point of needless death and others as the reason to continue this war (we must revenge their deaths). I hope hope the former will prevail and no more faces need to be posted. Quote I agree with you 100% that people will use the faces of those we have lost to further their case, but that is neither here nor there, the sight was a tribute to those lost, we should take it at face value out of respect for those who have their pictures up there. There are always going to be people in this world who twist these things into tools to better their position, its a fact of life. don't focus on the negative, say your thanks to those who have their their pictures posted and be grateful they volunteered to serve so others wouldn't be forced to. It's a fact of life that soldiers are merely pawns to help politicians get their way, we're both fully aware of that, you have to find meaning in what you do regardless of why some spineless coward in Washington sent you in, for me it has nothing to do with wanting to travel the world killing people, that's not why I love combat. I do it because I haven't lived with my family since I was 14 and being in combat with my teammates is the closest I've felt to having a home. That's why I love what I do, it gives me a home and a family, I've just found good in something that is inherently bad, it's the way I look at things. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Bill, in reading the post that quade linked to I understood it as saying he was killed while serving as a SEAL, I missunderstood the context in which the term "former SEAL" was used, my apologies for that. At the same time though, I will stand by what I said, he was killed trying to help those he worked with, that is not a meaningless death, being killed like that is never easy on those who care about someone but he still served in the special operations community and you will rarely if ever find a special operator, past or present who wants what they have done to be used in a politically charged argument. The community sees it as being very disrespectful, my condolences in the loss of your friend, but he didn't die in vain, he was helping those who couldn't help themselves. And Lucky, I'll even help you knock this thing back on track if that is what you so wish, the OP posted a link to an article explaining how all the citizens watch programs such as "the awakening" have turned the tables on AQ, and strangely enough as soon as things started going good everyone stopped mentioning the war all together because the reasons to kock Bush over Iraq were dissapearing, but to fullfill their need to slam him they have just inserted new topics into the conversation. I have personally seen how AQ has alienated themselves from the people in Iraq and they have worked against themselves in truning the citizens against them. Things are going great over there, listing numbers of casualties is a BS argument, it's war, people are going to die whether things are going good or bad, small numbers of casualties is more of an indicator that we aren't doing our jobs than one of success, so Kallend's reply is a weak argument at best. I'm personally not a big fan of the president either, but regardless of whether or not we like him things in Iraq have changed drastically, and believe it or not the surge was a huge help in moving things in the right direction. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

You are one of the worst at doing that, I remember your posts about your service in the military, trust me, I have quite a few things to say about it but choose not to turn the thread into a venue to knock other posters whom I've convinced myself I'm superior to as you do with such regularity. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

If you're arguments are all going to consist of pathetic one-lined insults please refrain from participating this discussion, all you are doing is wasting space and getting people fired up and it degrades the thread. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

How low is this? http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/ Considering your statement " I like war." in another thread... Quote How is that low, I didn't see the pictures being used in a political argument, I went through the first few pages ad all I saw was a tribute. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

He wasn't addressing the argument, just the timing; reading is fundamental. Quote I now exactly what he was addressing, how bout you quit trying to take under-handed shots at everyone in the military. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Ya know what . . . right now I'm pretty pissed off that this stupid fucking war has been the cause of death of SEVERAL of my friends. I don't really give a shit what you think.Quote And everytime I run into someone I used to be stationed with the first thing we do is go through our lists of mutual friends who have been KIA so we know how many of us are left. So I know exactly how it feels, but I would never use any of their deaths to help my case in a political argument, that's about the most disrespectful fucking thing a person can do to a fallen warrior. You may not agree with the war, and your friend may not have either, but he was their serving with honor and I guarnatee his teammates don't look at his death as meaningless. Your friend died standing next to his teammates under fire, his death helped bring them home, he fought and died with honor and for a good reason. No soldiers ever dies in vain in combat, no matter how meaningless the conflict is, soldiers don't fight to help politicians win votes or prove their point, we fight because of the men and women standing next to us, tink about that the next time you want to try and disrespect your fallen friend. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't appreciate being brought up in that context. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

It was a documentary or my past life History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower