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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPVFW1HU6so Came across this animation on the you tube videos. I thought it was a nice touch to toss the PC toss at the end with a reach for the risers. At least the character was by a road for easy pick up.. Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Now would be a good time to update your #'s and help avoid the "you should not jump a camera" comment. Remembering the P-N-S Canon I don't remember a shutter plug but I might be wrong. Why would you be wasting sub $200 as you can get a HC30/40/32/42 on E-bay in many cases for under 200 and that is a very commonly used camera for Video guys. I use a HC40 both for outside vid and for hand cam and my videos seem to be acceptable. The monkeying you might have to do with the P-N-S canon might really not be worth it. Even if it is there you still need a $50 plug, yes you can make one for less and I know there are a good number of threads out there talking bout it. Getting the correct tool for the job sometimes will save in the long run Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

I picked up to this thread from the other thread you started. I don't like either one but the only saving grace you might end up with is the light load. It might give you a slight margin to save your own ass when you make a larger mistake flying a HP (unforgiving) canopy. That can also bite you just as bad thinking that you are going to be OK . Your own statement of "Hoping" you are going to be OK does not make sense. As much as you protest to the contrary, YOUR statements make me thing about "X" jump wonders and "Naturals" Lots of them are fine , learn and get better but the other side of the coin offers us many many examples of those who have been hurt. Will it happen to you, well like you I hope NOT and that your fine. The 2 landing videos you showed honestly were NOT that good and really did not give me confidence for you staying out of trouble. The light wind one showed poor landing flare judgment and the others were in higher winds which can make a landing look much better. Your Ground speed is slower then the actual speed through the air so it is easier to stand up. Basically I do agree that some are people are better then others and are more "Naturals" but that does not mean they should jump ahead of the progression curve. The ability to fly a canopy really is pretty small in my reasoning for dissuading rapid downsizing. 99% + of the time your going to be fine BUT and this is a BIG BUT, the smaller and faster a canopy is, the FASTER IT GOES TO SHIT!! I am yelling that as I don't think it can be shouted loud enough. When a small HP goes bad you have to have the experience to RECOGNIZE and REACT very quickly or you risk having to chop or worse if your lower to the ground. Also Going small is a stupid and very poorly informed choice/excuse to find a better landing. Smaller really does not offer that and again, 99% + you will probably be OK but the posted videos don't show that high level of skill in your possession yet. Now that I think about it, this response is going to get lost in the mix so no more ramblings from me. I care but at the same time I really don't care at the same time. My concern is less for you as your heels are obviously dug in with your justified position, but more for the sport and the consequences that can ripple out of a mistake you could potentially make given your lack of "overall" experience..... Scott C. EDIT ADD TO ADD TO MY POSITION: I have been saying the same basic thing above for years. Here is a similar post I made to a fatality with a 200 jump wonder... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1518931;search_string=99%25;#1518931 "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

good! "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Same Plane from inside. Not the best pic but gives an idea on 2 open doors. I had to choose which way to go It was fun taking WS jumps out of each side a it made for a faster get together and flock. Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

I have to say I found what I needed though! Thanks for the link! Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

I heard about the non-complete one the next year but I don't think anybody has tried to set something up again since then so I guess the 10 year old 87 way stands I seem to remember John. I thought you might have been there but maybe I am thinking about meeting you at the Georgia 100 way attempts that got weathered out the next year. I remember that DD and Sandy were organizing those. Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Completely my bad... You are right I just mistyped the year as i was confused with the number on the jump. Is that a shinny thing in the corner......... I think it was an 87 way! Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

LOL, I thought the same thing but the reason we do most things in life is to make ourselves happy, right! If he wants to get it done, what the hell. I have a smiley face altimeter that I like! To each his own... Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Going through some old files and found this picture. I think Oscar took it???? Who else was at West point for the attached pic on the Va State Record jump organized by Sandy Wambach. I remember that we basically had one shot at making the record on the morning of the second day as weather was moving in pretty fast. After some troubles the day before we went out and had a fantastic jump with a good hold time for the completion. I think this was Halloween time in 1997 or so. Is it true that this is still the big way record for VA? I know about a few failed attempts later on... Not sure though. Anyway just ran across it. Not that old but once it is the double digit time frame it probably counts for this forum... Scott C. Edit to change year to correct one.. I be a moron "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

That is the trick. Grips are not as common in WS as I see it and what is more commonly looked for is the proximity. The attached photo is good to demonstrate what I am talking about. Look at the 3 way wedge photo. The person on the right is tighter then the person on the left. With out grips to call the point complete, a level of proximity needs to be considered. Personally I say this is close in terms of a completed formation for a competition with the Rt side flyer being OK but the left needing to be closer. On smaller dives it can be easy to look at the proximity and be a little looser. The problem is that if you take that same attitude and add a few more people that little extra translates to a much more spread out formation. Look at the 2 and a half diamonds pic from a WWW at Lodi awhile back (Thanks to Avery for the pic). The top diamond is pretty tight with the Lft flyer obscenely close. As you look back the formation gets looser and looser and the spread is bigger. The people are "sorta" in the slots but it would be hard for this to be looked at as complete in a competition. Not bad for a fun flock but still would it be competition complete. One more example of formation and proximity could be the 9-way diamond at FnD. Matt posted a great shot showing a good tight formation and I think everyone with out exception would call complete. But if you look at the gallery on his site some of the pics show lots of different locations that though are great, the positions are not nearly as close and nice as the good shot he got. This is the quandary with Proximity and I know "proximity for points" is contrary to my thinking on "Artistic" events I said earlier about interpretation or judgment having to be applied. It is not optimal but right now, most WS'ers don't have the skill to fly a dock so some level of proximity needs to be permitted. Also it might be harder to get grips on some formation and impossible when you start adding the 3D dives in so requiring them might not even be possible. The rules in RW, though pretty, on a fun RW jump yu often find the group is not concerned as much about complete breaks between points. In competition that is a no-no but who cares for a fun jump. I thik the same thing is going to happen to WS's. This is fun to fly, fun to fly loose and free with out getting our pee-pee's slapped for not taking the correct grip and I am all for that. BUT as the area grows to strive towards more competition or harder rules the "it is close so it is good" thinking has to change. Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

That is an interesting 1st thought about weight. I don't 100% agree with it but it is interesting. I can see maybe a heavyweight class but if you start adding in too many then you are like wrestling in that you have a class for every 5-10 pounds. Hell every one can win Just because body style is going to play a factor into performance it is what it is and people adjust to that with a suit that works for their needs... Body style difference is the sort of thing that plays into every active sport to some degree. Speed and time are related to distance though so I can see that as a good blend event as it will open up to various styles of flight.. Look back at the arguments from 3.0 with the distance challange. My understanding (2nd hand) was that Robi flew much faster then Jeff but Jeff fell slower and was able to eek out a little more distance in the end. Two different styles giving very similar results. Separate from the fatigue talk or one of the many other arguments that came up, the challange proved to be seemingly fair and with a little tweaking could be viable and no I don't have the answers on the tweaking. Relative work should just be a time from exit, like in FS competitions. I feel, coming from a RW background, that you could work a dive pool and mimic something with WS that would be similar to FS events. The argument would then come into play on what counts or scores. Proximity, Docking? It is something that needs to be played with but I think it can work. On the big way front that opens a new round of issues. I again from a RW background look at a big formation as slot specific with some requirement of proximity not just we threw "X" out and "Y" got close so it is a new Big way record. I don't like that. The end result is that talking about the options we have in front of us is fantastic. The discipline is growing and people are looking for the next step to take. I am not a big proponent of "Artistic" events as I think scoring is to open to interpretation.. Just some ramblings and agree "let us see what the future brings..." but I would add don't be afraid to toss your $0.02 in the mix

I beg to differ as I had a good number of jumps (close to 50) on the Ghost before I went to the WWW Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

The Ghost did very well in the flocks at Lodi... Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Skydiving is not for everyone. People get involved, jump in with both feet and then for what ever reason they step back. It could be anything but given that the bad outcomes in this sport can have dire consequences if some one leaves even after you have "Helped" them it is ultimately their choice. If you are looking at it form a friend point of view and really have a concern for them, contact them away from jumping and ask. Scott C. p.s. the above comment on lightly used gear cheap also went through my mind. How low you decide to offer will be the true test of your friendship "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

I was interested and in the course of looking up the info on the machine, I ran across the E-bay ad. If you get the table and everything (said local pick up for all) you got an amazing deal! Have fun with that machine... Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

On the tail flap. I talked to James about it during the Lodi weekend a few weeks back. The front leg inlets location is about at the knee on my suit and as a result you could see in a video shot from behind that when flying dirty with a good bend in my legs, I was in effect taking the inlets out of the wind. This would cause a flap, again only when dirty. I found after talking some with James, if I arched a bit more at the hips to fall faster and did a less pronounced leg bend I was better with the reduced flap. Also a more toes out knees out position helped as well. The suit flys differently, like any suit and you can tweak positions for different results. Looking at the picture posted from 3.5 the tail is flapping it looks on both the Ghosts seen. But the legs don't seem to be spread as wide as they should. You don't need the EG Portuguese's Whore stance but it is a good wide stance. I never noticed the flap on faster forward flocks or solos as I was in more of a max position I did notice flap on slower fwd faster falling flocks. I don't know if it would be better in terms of pressurization if I had the inlets higher on my thighs (Above the knee) but it might make a difference, I am not a designer. The end result is I am loving the suit overall and really can adjust to reduce the flap and how to get rid of it. Attached are a couple of Lodi pictures that are cropped. Thanks James, for the pics.... First one is just a crop of flying. Good spread and pressurization even with a turn to the left going which can be seen in body position. Second is a shot with 4 Ghosts flying all in different positions and leg bends. The common position is more of a legs out position though and they all seem to be pressurized. Will it flap, yes. Can it be flown wioth ut a flap, Yes.. Can there be an adjustment on the inlets, I dont know. I still thik the suit is fantastic for the jub it was designed for... Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

12 years from DOM with a 3 month grace period is how i understand it. the service is noted as 4 years +/- 3 months and that seems to comonly translate to 12 years + 3 months to Your "Cypress Is Dead Date" 8/95 is technically good to the end of 11/07 as I read the lifespan from Cypress. If someone has a different opinion I am sure it will get noted! Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Scott, I have a Astra and have been using one for about a year now with wingsuits. I have a friend that has been using one for more then 2 years in his rig. I switched to the Astra as I had a cypress that expired in my rig previously and had ready access to the Astra when I made the switch. Using this unit, I have done a good number of transitions belly to back and to belly again but with out and AAD incident. As I see it wingsuiting can be very easy to generate parameters outside of normal "Skydiving AAD" presets. I think it would be interesting to check out what the other manufacturers stance is on wingsuits and how it would potentially affect their units. My concern was the acceleration from Low WS vertical speeds to a tumble and if the flying at the Low speeds right from the start of a jump following exit would create an issue with the units not arming themselves by not figuring out that it was on a jump. Below is the response I received in an E-mail. I took out the engineers name as I dont think it is relevant but the info might be helpful. I have to admit that as a NON engineer it was a little confusing. I would be interested in the thought that people have to not only this response and an ASTRA but also to what I would expect to be similar "Issues" with other modern AAD's. I left in the mod info to indicate that this ASTRA is at the current revision in software as should any other ASTRA being used today in skydiving. Scott C. From: Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: ASTRA explanation for Scott C. The problem with the M3 program was that, when the aircraft flew above 1700 feet and then back down to 1400 feet during the climb, the ASTRA would fire whenever it measured a 400 foot drop in altitude during a 3 second interval. This situation occurred once or twice because the pilot was flying a low altitude holding pattern during the use of M3 units, and it resulted in a firing just after exiting from the aircraft. The M3B program added the feature that if the altitude goes above 1700 feet again after going down to 1400 feet, the 3 second search for a 400 foot drop stops and the ASTRA will again look for 1400 feet to start the 3 second measurement interval. So, if Scott is flying up and down in his wing suit just below 1700 feet and at least once below 1400 feet, the ASTRA might fire as high as 1300 feet instead of 1000 feet when it measures a drop of 400 feet in 3 seconds. The only other concern with the use of wing suits is the increase of air pressure caused by speed through the air. An air speed of 170 miles per hour against the Astra Control Unit is estimated to cause it to read 1000 feet below the altitude pressure. This effect varies as the square of the air speed. Therefore an air speed of 40mph may decrease the altitude reading by 55 feet. Values of the change in altitude reading at other air speeds are left for Scott to evaluate. Tumbling complicates the situation because the Astra moves in and out of the air stream, going from increase to decrease and back to increase in pressure with respect to the pressure at the altitude. The Astra will fire if it senses an air pressure increase equivalent to 400 feet from the start of a 3 second interval regardless of what was happening previously. When the air pressure at the end of a 3 second interval is equivalent to 400 feet above the initial ground level reading, the Astra disarms and goes back into the mode that looks for 1700 feet above ground level (equivalent to turning the unit off and then back on except that the initial ground level reading is not updated). In other words, a steady high rate of air speed at a low enough altitude could disarm the Astra. Regards, FXC Engineering "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Scott, Are you saying the engineer sad what you related about the 12000 or the Astra? Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Ouch, did that slap hurt there Tony?? To the question, I can say with 100% certainty the guy on the right is NOT me Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

That SUCKS!! I met Beezy many many years ago and he was a great guy! I spoke to him what seems like just a a few months back but it might have been more then I thought and had no idea he was sick.. He will be missed by many I am sure.. Eternal Blue Skies Beezy.... Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Contact Ed (bodypilot1) as he is there most every weekend. He would know the skinny.. Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

Well in that case what can I say! Send me one! I expect that with your cinematic prowess I will find my emotions put to the test... Laughing, Crying finding myself elevated to a new level and then in the end walking away after the viewing feeling somehow transformed but maybe with a nagging feeling of "dirty"?? Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

I might do a solo, just so all of my many warm weather jumps aren't in a nice flock. Don't hate me for my boogie whoring. But jealousy is just fine. I "hate" you for the great beach jump, the boogie whoring that I am not able to swing right now but don't worry, that hate can just be looked at as intense jealousy.. Have some great floves and get the landing thing right.. Scott C. "He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"