Praetorian

Ok so I Just got the policy back and they specifically excluded skydiving .. did I ask them to? NO I have no family (of my own) I have good health coverage through work which makes no exemption for any reason for illness/injoury I'm only interiested in term life insurance so should I die I won't stick my parents with my school loans/car any ideas? Is there a skydiving insurance policy just for skydiving? is it a good(ok decent) deal? I mean damn the only reason to have the insurance is to take care of my responsibilities in this world if I go suddenly so an insurance policy with a skydiving loophole in it isn't any good to me Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

BOLD added by me Why even jump in those conditions? a little turbulence is unavoidable (baring totally STILL air) but bad enough that someone already got broken were the conditions changing winds gusting and dropping back? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

All my jumps at SDC have been with Nanette, she Rocks Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Great program.. a little more involved then AFF though, I view that as a plus. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I've flown with the brakes stowed for a short while made a few turns to pratice but very quickly unstowed the breaks.... I never tried a pratice riser landing with the breaks stowed.. how much of a difference is this going to make? will it lessen the range of motion before stall? You'll come in slower (I think) so that would decrease flare .. anything I should know ..( mental note pratice again with brakes stowed) I also have it on my list of to dos to try and fly with both toggles in one hand see how hard that would be to control and land.. any thoughts? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

can't say if its possible or not, I'd bet you't have to dive to build up speed just before the flare to have enough energy to pull it off.. what I can say is I think it'll be a while and then even if the first one works (which I doubt) I'd bet on a body count ticking up for a while. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I like the posts that include something like 'I dont have one but I put one in my (girlfriend/kids)' do you think given the chance after you explain to them why they have one in their rig they might want you to have one in yours? I will give no one shit for jumping without one, but I don't understand the culture of tearing into those who choose to have one or choose not to jump without one. (not that that was said by either of the posters I've refrenced with the kid/girlfriend thing) I've recently been told that I'm dependent on a cypress becaue I choose not to jump without it. I'm curious howmany people agree/disagree and why? My opinion .. its a back up one that I dont trust to do its job 100% nothing is perfect, but I choose to have it for those lighning strike type of odd happenings. Could I step out of a plane with it off Yea I think I can I just never have, and other then the bragging rights (which I see as macho bullshit) I don't see a benifit to not having it, as long as I have access to one I'll turn it on. I don't drive harder because I have an airbag, and I wouldn't drive differiently if I had to disconnect my airbag for some reason, that having been said other then bragging rights why the hell woud I go disconnect my air bag/cypress just to show someone else what I personally already know to be true? BOTTOM LINE cypress or not call other divers for stupid behavior. But for those who choose not to have an AAD for whatever your personal reason don't assume that those who do choose one have anything in common with eachother or different from you then that one thing. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

It opened well, during the control check one of the following is wrong A Breaks are stuck (slider pined them or something) B worse only one is stuck C Line is broken somewhere I know you'd notice quickly if one came unstowed or broke above the stow etc .. my question is what now, I've only actually attempted one rear riser landing with mixed results (didn't stand it up but ended up unhurt) I praticed it up high for most of the flight its not easy. But I know I can do it and survive So the question is, when checking out your main, you notice something is not right but its still controlable fully inflated and stable ... I've still heard people advising a cut away on any steering malfunction. So what is the line, what level of Problem rises to the cutaway point, anyone know of something that might look ok but then develop into something unlandable? I know some of this is opinion so if you state your personal case and it would varry by experience or design of main please include that in the answer if its an absolute .. X can or will become unlandable make it clear that X may look ok but should be cut Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Any packing differiences/suggestions (I remember being told not to roll the nose of a Lotus, please correct me If I've got that wrong) Later, Jeremy Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I got it in my head from his (ron's) first reply that this was a slugging match and am too bull headed to back off, the sad part is I've re-read the posts and he really didn't come at me hard in the beginning. I had a stipid and now corrected reason to worry about high wind.. what gets me riled up is being told my Opionion is wrong, that my use of safety gear means I'm one of "them" those that use tech to replace skill and training. The problem is that 1 this is all preception and opinion so as much as I got into Ron for attacks on opinion I was doing the same.. I see a diff between choosing a cypress because it exists and being dependent on it, Ron aparently dosn't I hate my words being used against me especially when they are taken out of context in my reply I said I would ride the plane down with an OFF cypress, what I needed to make clear (thought I had) was that the cypress being off is the least of the reasons I woud ride the plane down, its part of my gear check to MAKE SURE its on I'm not gonna trust the rest of my prep if something so basic was goofed. Also having a malfunctioning cypress is far far far worse then not having one at all if I did turn it on and it was reading off on the same day something is up, I'd rather not findout the hard way just how bad the malfunction is. To Ron: I'll take a breath next time before replying and I'll try to keep 1 on thread and 2 make my statments clear the first time. TO FIRST TIME sorry your thread got hijacked Edited to add (damn I cant spell for Ship) Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

[ By WHO? BY MY FIST INSTRUCTOR YEARS AGO AT KAPOWSIN which is why I had the wrong information and posted it (thats what I get for taking information from someone at face value without thinking about it YEP I did as a concequence of posting without fear of being attacked for being wrong and I'm happily corrected Sorry wrong an AAD MIGHT save you .. thats why its a BACK UP Um no unitl I have my first cut neither of us can say for certain, but its far from a crap shoot, this isnt random chance Its something I pratice OVER AND OVER AND OVER when did I ever say anything about final, and why should I "quit flying" to pull the disconect of my RSL? I pratice doing it without looking it might take me the whole of the base to get it but I'd never have to take my eyes off sweep mode, and never have to "quit flying" I can find all my handles including the RSL release with my eyes closed nope I never attacked you only defended myself, I never put thoughts in your head or words in your mouth BS you seem to know exactly what mistakes I'll make and what failings I'll have in emergencies without ever meeting me your call I PMd you over this one and if you feel I've short changed this reply sorry but this is too long as it is and too off thread Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Acutally I was told it COULD Wrong? I've never been in a wrap how the hell would I know if I'd remember my RSL ..more importantly how the hell would you know if I would or not, if I intentionally made a crew dive I sure as hell would remember to disconnect it before the jump Your implying I was in the "oh its open good, disconnect my RSL now at 2000+ ft camp" which I never said, Its always possible that I could be wrong thats why the discussions are valuable Did I TELL you to remove it? Nope. In fact I wrote: ***As a student an RSL can be a good thing...And it is required anyway till you are licensed. I would suggest that you keep the RSL till after you have delt with a malfuntion properly. Actually I wasnt replying to you in the "I'll keep it" statment.. now as to the Keep the RSL until you have delt with a malfunction properly.... why remove it after one properly delt with malfunction?.. thats like pulling your cypress because you remembered to pull on time or you got to silver before it did when you cut away And I see people do it all the time. Then get on them about it but dont assume that because someone has safety gear that it makes them complacent.. . and don't assume becasue someone has chosen to remove (or not have) any specific piece of gear that it relflects grater skill/awareness on their part and that means nothing unless they are making riskier jumps with one because they have it, if so that is a mantality problem with that diver NOT with all cypress equiped divers, I choose not to drive without my seat belt, do you think that makes me a less safe drive then someone who decides not to wear one? So there is PROOF on that one. If your gonna use my words against me at least acknowledge why I said them. My reason not to jump was because I would have to have SERIOUSLY GOOFED my gear check to miss turning on the cypress or it would have to be MALFUNCTIONING neither is a good condition to be jumping in!.. shit if on a pin check of your gear someone noticed you had misrouted your bridal and set yourself up for a pilot in tow, assuming it could be fixed on the plane with the door closed would you still jump or would that FUNDEMENTAL goof make you second guess the quality of your packjob/gear check?? Proof? at this level of knowledge I'd still be a STUDENT at WFFC I've got no buisness in air that crowded, probably jumping with other students.. the fact is I trust other skydivers but I KNOW shit happens so YEA I'll keep my cypress. But to take a short answer and twist it to mean I would make that jump with it and not without it.. I'll give you that one I wasn't clear what I should have said was AT THIS EXPERIENCE LEVEL I SHOULDN'T BE AT WFFC JUMPING I'll take that one my bad for misspeaking Then that is a mantality problem with that diver a serious one if they aren't skilled enought to be making the riskier jump you know if you want to attack me personally thats what PMs are for save the sarcasm I'll be more inclined to listen to you if your not trying to talk down to me or twist my words to allow an attack, speak to the issue not the person argue my logic or point ESPECIALLY IF I'M WRONG Yea I have strong opinions or more accurately I deliver my view/thoughts with aparent athority .. I come across as an Arogant F#@K I don't intend to but I know its a flaw, comes from being a military brat, and a skilled public speaker, (lousey writer though) No one knows what they don't know My mistake there was taking a more experienced divers word WITHOUT thinking about it as I've alread said a mistake I'll try not to repeat While I may have implied that (and If I was unclear I'm sorry but what I was getting at was close to ground maybe on base or so low where its not gonna make a diff anyway, I never said or even implied that I agreed with disconnecting it at altitude while I'm inclined to agree with you that its possible even likely I'd forget or be unable I wont agree that as a statment of fact I wouldn't remember this. You don't know how I deal with stress, when I note another diver close to me under canapy its one of the thoughts that runs through my mind so dont use this as one of your three points of "ha got ya" GOOD when you note this make it a point T THAT diver but don't use it as proof that anyone who wants safty gear is gonna use it as a substitue for caution and training, are you more lax with your main pack job just because you have a reserve? I still stick with this if you have a problem with me thinking for myself feel free not to reply to me, or do so in a construtive non sarcastic manner I'd appericate it ESPECIALLY WHEN I'M WRONG BS, in replies please attack my LOGIC or point out errors of deduction or knowledge so I can LEARN. everyone is allowed opinions mine come across strongly, thats just the way I am/the way I write/speak attacking me (or my opinions) by making false assumptions that I'm looking for gear to replace knowledge/training, being sarcastic and adversarial will only lead to long off thread responces like this.. I've got no problem admiting when I'm wrong and that I have a lot to learn. And you have me in experience which is why I ask, why I comment EVEN WHEN I MIGHT BE WRONG because I don't mind being corrected and some other divers out there might have been given the same wrong information or made the same wrong deductions I have and aren't the kind to post anything when they might be wrong. Constructive responces addressing errors of knowledge or deduction will encourage more posts from people, planed specifically constructed 3 point "ha ha see your wrong" attacks on someone's opinions will only discourage less bold posters who might spark good conversation with a posted mistake oh sorry for the spelling/grammer errors I'm at work and in a hurry Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I fail to see how useing Back up safety devices would make me a worse skydiver, I KNOW a cypress is there only in extreems and most of the time is wasted space (much like car insurance) now I know more about the RSL .. so I'll keep it and not worry about disconnecting it before landing. But I'm still not gonna remove it from my gear. The problem I see is people are assuming that if you use back up gear/safety gear that gives you lisence to ignor training or do stupid stuff/skip the ground review when getting back current. I DON'T see it that way to me knowing my rig, researching the gear out there and picking what to add to make my chances of survival when I brain lock or the shit hits the fan better shows that I'm a smart skydiver doing this in such a manner that I can KEEP doing it. Again a seat belt or air bag are not lisence to be a stupid inattentive driver. Wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is your choice to add safety, not to lisence you to be a dumbass. I don't know about the skydiving world yet (I'm too new) but if I saw two people on identical motorcycles and one was wearing a helmet and one was not I'd bet the helmeted rider was the safer/more skilled rider, not because he choose a helmet but rather the other way around the smarter more aware riders often choose to wear a helmet. Funney thing is for those riders who choose not to wear a helmet I don't see them giving the riders who do wear one a hard time. I've drifted off the thread here to try and get a point across. which is IF you see a diver doing stupid shit, or not going over safety procedures, get on him for it reguardless of what safety gear he has or lacks, and Never assume that just because I have some safety gear that you don't that in any way reflects less awareness or commitment to safety. You've got me in experience (that comment is to most everyone on this web page) which is why I ask you about gear, I want facts/experience, I'll take advice and opinions with that experience but I'm gonna evaluate that for myself and when I spot a logical basis for that opinion that don't fit me I'm gonna disagree with that opinion/position for that reason. I ADD safety gear like a RSL or Cypress, NOT substitute it for training/attention/pratice Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

PM'd Back .. and now posted As a part of my gear check before putting my rig on, and as part of my check before getting on the plane I make sure my cypress is on (as a student at skydive chicago it is required but I will keep this as part of my gear check) so being told it is off means 1 I really goofed my gear checks and maybe something else is screwed, or 2 my cypress is malfunctioning, I'm pretty sure that turning it on at altitude is no good (I'll have to check) but if I goofed something so basic on my check I cant trust the rest of my check/packing job, I'm riding the plane down. Now if I arrive at WFFC next summer and for some reason my in date cypress gives me an error code or dead bat, and a rigger says "hey I'll pull that have it back for you tommorow".. would I jump that day... honest answer at this experience level probably not, in another 150 jumps I'd probably jump that day but I'd want my cypress back asap, its a safety featue I choose to have, not a security blanket I can't sleep without. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

well I'll admit this .. you learn something new every day, I stand totally corrected (and dont know why this didn't occure to me I guess I just took the rumor at face value without thinking about it, for which I should be ashamed) .. I would however like an answer on the "what about if you had a skyhook" question Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I would call disconnecting something that will pull your reserve and leave you unable to disconnect the thing draggeing you a safety decision, I dont care about grass stains but being pulled into traffic, onto an active runway or into a fence can seriously hurt, I know to ground my main on landing but IF you start getting dragged you might not be able to stop, or even be able to pull your RSL before trying to cut away, even the time issue on the ground might cost you some nasty tire or propeller marks Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I'm not trying to tick anyone off I just say what I think (and it can be taken with a grain of salt as I'm a total NOVICE) I just don't see the logic in passing up backups ... I also don't trust them thats why they are called backups. They are just logical extentions of reserves. I also know its important to know your own gear and if I end up wraped or landing in HIGH wind I know to disconnect my RSL before cutting away. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Huh, I wouldn't choose to jump without one, its there just in case I get knocked cold on exit or hit another diver in free fall etc.. I don't think a cypress is a cloak of invincibility. Just a piece of insurance I choose to have, and not one I trust to be fool proof just maybe one more shot then I have without it, if given the choice I'll take the car with the airbag, wear the helmet on the motorcycle etc, and the only time I would do without these kind of safety backups is if I had no choice, would I drive faster in the car with the airbag? NO so while I choose not to jump without a cypress no there is no jump that I would do without one that I would do with one. cypress or RSL just wouldnt be factors in these decisions (ok maybe RSL would but it would be the other way around if I try CRW I'll disconnect it but you get the idea) Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

I think your mistaking the use of "crutches" with dependence on them. I for example am a newbie and wouldn't choose to jump without an altimeter I'm getting better at judging by sight, and would trust my eyes to pull if I felt I was too low reguardless of what the altimeter says, at this point I might also pull if my altimeter read lower then my eyes/mind. but even if I get to the point where I am perfect at this I would still choose to have an altimeter, If I need to cut and pull silver, RSL or not once I've pulled red I'm going for silver, if the RSL beats me to it great thats why I have it, because its a usefull backup not because I'm dependent on it. Same with a cypress I have it as a BACK UP should I be unable to pull my reserve, it gives me one more shot then I would have otherwise, would I trust it to do its job if I had any other choice, nope thats why I wouldnt remove my Reserve handle just because I have a cypress. your arguement is the same as saying a helmet is a crutch to riding a motorcycle, and wearing one is like saying I have a helmet so I can be stupid, unskilled, and unpraticed while riding a motorcycle as opposed to I'm good and trying to get better on a motorcycle but I wear a helmet because Shit happens. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

They do it to gain information on new tech, expensive hot cars get the new tech first so they can get some of the R&D costs back, test the tech in the field with cars that aren't gonna ruin their rep if they have to recall/or have minor "glitch" problems. And then put that tech in their other main streem models. Not sure the same concept works in parachutes, would you want a new material or stitch pattern tested first in the fastest most higly loaded mains? cars pull to the side of the road when something fails skydivers pull silver. :) I think this is why PD tests the hell outta things (like the katana) because they can't get to a point and then field the tech like car manufactures can, and the technology isn't something they can then apply to the rest of their line. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Ok, Other then a lot of people, a single file tail exit at (I'm assuming) a higher speed then the usual jumprun ... whats special about a jet ride? I know they climb fast, but is that it? do you usually go higher? (I'm not knocking the jet just wondering) Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Water landings should also be considered, especially where you wear the weight. 15lbs of lead is a lot to add if you want to stay above water. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

You'll love this, 2 USAF F-16 pilots desided to race, as they were in identical aircraft and it was a pretty stright line from the runway to their designated endpoint only reducing drag would make a differience, one of the pilots set his gear to the retract position so that the instant he lifted off the gear would close... at some point it the take off roll a head wind gusted, little lift off, lot of belly flop. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

Ok I'll give you the .5inch break pedal arguement but what about numbers like 0-60 easily measured, the main or reserve equivelant would be something like greatest turn rate in deg/sec or how about Revolutions/altitude loss. I know a human in the loop is gonna change the outcome even if its the same human jumping all the different chutes, and computers/machines can measure riser force in numbers with units attached not just more or less. what good is telling me the riser foce of the X is less then the Y if both are way above my strength? what about if the difference is HUGE? giving numbers lets me comparison shop without having to do the logic problem of Y is less then X and X is less them M so Y is less them M etc. and the equptment exists and could be leased/contracted so 30grand is a little high of an estimate isn't it? (no longer responding directly to Bill) you would think the arguement would be setteled by what a great add campain it would make ours spin faster, has a wider flight range etc .. or ours turn this fast most think its faster then theirs and they wont even do the experiment .. what does that tell you? I don't like negative ads but I like numbers, and I'm not gonna take a company's word on anything when some of their ads have made comments about opening force or stability that most users laugh at. Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment.

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