peregrinerose

For the Old Testament you are likely right. They are fables to prove a point or show an example, not necessarily truth. No different than Roman or Greek mythology. New Testament I see as far more historical in nature and actually really intresting reading about life at that time. I don't know that it was inspired by God or not, but also don't think the entire thing is fiction. The roots of the New Testament probably are reality to those who wrote the words. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

You have to know what kind of seizures you have as well as what meds you are on to control them. Asking for specifics on seizures is like asking for specifics on cancer. There are so many different kinds and the answers are different for each. For example, mine are partial complex. No loss of consciousness, just a little spacey. I can carry on a conversation, you'd never know I was having it to talk to me. It's just a weird dejavuy type sensation. I'm exhausted afterwards, and typically forget having them. So to keep track, I always call/tell/email my husband during or immediately after a seizure, that way I know it gets recorded. Mine are controlled completely with Lamictal. I only have seizures two days after I miss a dose, which luckily isn't often. I'm playing with levels now so that it doesn't even happen then. Other meds I was on not so good. Dilantin gave me nystagmus which sucked. Carbatrol made me bruise extremely easily (can lead to internal bleeding) and made me get fungal sores in my mouth. Very painful. Depakote was next but due to hepatotoxicity and teratogenic affects, I refused to take it. But that is just my experience. Ask 50 people with varying seizure disorders and every answer, cause, treatment, and description of seizures will be different. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

For the record, I don't believe in Christianity. However, this doesn't make sense. Inspired by God does not mean personally hand written by or dictated by God. So if it inspired, you have a bunch of guys doing their best but still writing within the context of their own culture and knowledge base. Things are going to be a bit muddled. As far as I can tell to Christians it isn't the fine nitpicking that is important, it's the over all message. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

I'm with you on that too. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

Now that's just plain mean. I may not agree with certain viewpoints, but for all I know they are perfectly valid. We all live in adult fairy tales of our own constructs, our own little worlds. No need to zap a nuke on anyone else's. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

Does a girl opinion count? The one in the middle is cute, nice smile. The one on the right definitely looks like she needs more fiber in her diet. There's just something strange looking about the one on the left, can't put my finger on it, exactly. But looks aren't everything, it's the whole package that matters and we can't tell by a pic which one has what kind of presence or demeanor. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

I agree. Instead of even investigating the possibility that their sources were not as accurate as they though, they are just stubbornly standing by the original report. This kind of blind tenacity by nature evaporates their credibility. Truly ethical sources can admit when new data comes out and adjusts accordingly. I don't know if the documents are forgeries or not, and for this part of the discussion it doesn't matter since it is more about CBS ethics than anything else. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

So God can change my gut instincts and true feelings. But he doesn't. Why? All I would have needed was the capability of truly believing, not even to be beat over the head with it. As you mentioned in your post, the need for more than just 'warm and fuzzies' or intellectual Bible quoting is what matters. Realistically though, I just don't have that capacity. I am not closed off to the possibility that it will change, we all change with time or there would be no point to life. But I find peace in my own beliefs and am truly repulsed by the concept of Christianity (particularly organized Christianity). Don't get me wrong, I don't criticize individual Christians for the tenacity of their beliefs. They believe their beliefs are valid and stand by them. That is commendable. I'm not judging anyone, only saying what I believe. (Just my little disclaimer there, don't want my ass bopped off Speakers Corner

Well said. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

I was replying more to Rhino on this one, since he was born feeling this way, but the arguement is no less valid. You believe with every fiber of your being that Christianity is truth. Others believe in Islam or Hinduism, or Paganism, or whatever every bit as strongly. As you could not force yourself to believe something else, you are firm and secure in your beliefs, so are others. So how can they be expected to change their gut instincts, their souls? Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

I doubt that Jesus would have banned Thomas, one of his supporters and friends, from Heaven just because of doubting him. So exactly how does this work, one who believes without proof gets a front row seat in Heaven while those who need proof to believe are just in the general admission section? If Thomas is accepted despite his disbelief, why wouldn't everyone else be accepted as well, if disbelieving? Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

This doesn't make sense. It isn't about denying God or lack of faith. You know in your heart that the Bible/God is truth, you were born believing in this, you feel from your hair to toenails that this is truth, and nothing can change your mind, you are confident that you are right. To you, it isn't about choice, it is about knowing. Those of us to do not believe in these words feel just as strongly. We believe that Christianity is not the only way, we were not born believing in these things, and just as you couldn't abandon your beliefs, neither can we. It is not a conscious choice to reject God, it is not 'oh look, here's the Bible, I read it and learned about God, but choose to believe it is horseshit.' It is being completely unable to believe in it. Not a choice, a gut instinct, just as your belief is the same, a gut instinct. The Bible is not a history book, it was never meant to be. It is a roadmap to the followers of Christianity, the parables and stories that give you your beliefs and re-enforce them. It is the history of Christianity, not the kind of history that is in history books. You say that you would rather have faith in what you believe in your heart to be true than to have no faith and be wrong. Sure, I could fake it that I believe in God, go to church, pray, but deep in my heart it would not be sincere, it would be superficial. I honestly tried to believe for most of my life, but that gut feeling of it being true just isn't there for me. I will not pretend or put on a mask. I have to be true to my own instincts, just as you do for yours. Can God truly fault me for not living a lie? For not pretending to be a Christian? Would he truly prefer a superficial Christian who in their heart does not believe to someone who follows the truths in their own hearts? If so, then I don't want a part of it. If He would condemn me for being physically/emotionally unable to force myself to believe in Christianity, then so be it. I can't force myself to believe in something that sits so wrong with me. It's as if he would condemn me for not being able to run 100 miles an hour. No matter how hard I would try, I couldn't physically do it. Same with believing in Christianity. I don't need excuses, rationalizations or sarcasm if indeed I will be judged at the pearly gates. I do the best I can to be a good person and be true to what I do believe. That is all that anyone can do, do our best every day. I accept the consequences of those feelings, of my gut instincts. If I am wrong, I make no excuses. I can't even truly make apologies. I can only do the best that I can. I do believe that all things are linked by something greater than us. I believe in the spirit of the earth and the sky. I believe that living an ethical life and reaching out to others and living in harmony with the world is important. I believe that every person lives on in the hearts of those around them, those that they impacted, whether positively or negatively, after death. I believe in conservation of energy and that in some form, people do live on after death. Never having been dead myself, I can't fathom what that would be. I feel closest to a deity at the top of a mountain alone, or hiking in the woods with true peace. In my very soul I'm at ease with the world around me, I am calm and centered (for lack of a better word). I neither judge those around me, nor want to be judged. Truth is internal when it comes to the metaphysical. And I am at peace within myself. Pray for me if you wish. But I am content with my perception of 'truth' and with all my spirit believe in that concept. I am no more wrong or right than you are. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

I'm with you guys. I can't stand seeing boobs that are big bobbling around like that. It gives me sympathy pain since I'm a D and wear sports bras all the time just to keep those babies strapped down and still. Can't even stand normal bras. Of course, I'm getting old now and gravity is taking its effect, which doesn't help any. After I pop a kid may get them perkified a little. But I still won't go around without a bra. I'll freeball it a lot (if I had balls, anyway, but you get the gist), but not freeboob it. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

If that happened, I'd be the first in line to apologize my ass off for being so critical of things. In this age of video, medicine, the Internet, sure there would be people who would question, there always is. But if God made it very public, with many witnesses in many formats, a lot more people would change their minds. There will always be doubters, that will never change, but those of us that are agnostic would certainly re evaluate our belief systems. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

I differ. Cruelty is morality, a measure of intent. There is no intent of the immune system to consider a fetus an invader. The mother did not think 'I want that potential rug rat to not be born, so I will sic my immune system on it to solve the problem.' There is no morality at all in this case, nor in the other example of the GI bacteria. Not all Christians will agree with you regarding the use of the Bible as a science book. That goes back to the whole creation/evolution and big bang arguement. Creationists adamantly believe that the Bible is verbatim, and that science has it all wrong. That is the problem with the Bible, it can be interpreted in many different ways, sometimes incompatible ways. If the story of creation is just a parable with the intent of teaching that God created everything, what makes the rest of the Bible any different, a series of stories to teach morality rather than actual fact. Aesop's Fables of the time. If the story of creation is direct truth, then the differences in various parts of the text would not exist, it would all say the same thing. The differing passages of the Bible lend evidence to the fact that men wrote it, and men mess things up. If men were perfect, the Bible would be internally consistent with its teachings. There is no way of knowing just how imperfect the Bible is as a result. Which of course opens the door to even more varience in interpretation. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

My husband is my best friend and best sounding board. I can vent in his general direction and he never takes my pissy mood personally. If I'm out of line, he has the balls to tell me so (and he's usually right). If I have a problem that is solvable, he helps me brainstorm. If I just had a long day and need to scream a bit, he lets me rant and rave, actually listens to what I have to say, and he knows I'll be over it in a minute. The best part is that he truly does listen to me. Not just my words, but he hears all that is behind them. And in the end he makes my world a safe and happy place again by wrapping me up in his arms. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

I'm more agnostic than athiest, but that arguement isn't all that great. If God showed up and introduced himself in the present time, not 2000 years ago, I doubt that anyone would disbelieve it, regardless of presupposition. I am willing to entertain any person's proof, and really do try to look at it objectively. If they make sense, and have concrete quantifiable evidence, that I will adjust my perceptions of life accordingly. After all, what's the point of life if none of us ever learn from the world around us and we just stagnate in unyeilding stubbornness? Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

Well, we might still be freaks/pervs Just not when it comes to the supragroinal area. Why do I have so much fun saying the word supragroinal??? Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

YES, that is exactly the supragroinal area I was talking about. I wonder if my boss will mind if I get drool on the keyboard?? Again, mental pic of nakedChad in my head. I need to stop reading this thread until I get home. But by then, I'll have nakedChad waiting for me and I can eye up a supragroinal area all I want to! Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

I sooo agree with you. Now you have me picturing my husband this way, and I'm at work for another 5 hours, getting horny is not good right now. *sigh* But I don't mind a bit of a belly, as long as it doesn't hide the supragroinal area. It's bigass beer guts that do nothing for me. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

No, the beer belly term is 'natural arch.' If one has the beer belly, it is not possible to even see the supragroinal/hip region without forklifting the gut out of the way. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

It is SO good to know I'm not the only one! Now the question is, exactly what do you call that body part? Always wondered that, but I sure as hell love watching it or touching it. Nothing gets me more turned on. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

Now this would be an interesting thread... is there 'eternal life' or a soul after death? Chad and I have discussed this a lot. He is certain that once you're dead, that's it. Nothing happens after that. I am undecided. I find comfort in the thought that somehow those I have loved and have lost are still with me in some way, still loving me somehow. If I lost Chad, knowing he believes as he does, it would be much harder to cope with. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, so in that facet, we do go on after death, but is it consciousness? Probably not. I don't like the idea of non-existance after death, but accept that it is probably reality. And can it be possible to miss life if you don't exist to miss it to begin with? No. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

Someone else: Eyes or that supragroinal/hip area on a guy. I love that part of the male body. On me: I've been told I have a grin that can light up a room. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

www.ebay.com Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda