Steel

This is true Cuban-Americans have assimilated and assimiliated well into American life. I just as my entire family or Cuban-American freinds have no intention of returning to Cuba. But that does not mean that we don't want the best for that Island and the family and freinds we have left behind there. I am not sure why you can't understand that it matters more to us than just some random country would. As for the kill Castro crowd. Some CA's try not to give this too much thought and block a lot of it out. Others go to meetings and are constantly following the news stories, hoping for change. But I can honestly say, I have never met a Cuban-American who would be unhappy if Castro was assasinated or that government fell. I also am willing to bet that I know more than 50 times more CA's than you or any of the other posters on this thread. EDitted to add, If you did know just a few Cuban-Americans, you wouldn't be posting all this non-sense. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Are you sure the Cuban-American lobby is that powerful? No offence but Cuban immigrants must make up a tiny percentage of the voting population. Its not as tiny as you may think. I guarantee you that if you took away the Cuban vote as a whole in Florida, then Gore would have won the 2000 election. Yes, we make up less that 1% of the population. However, we are 3% of the Senators, make more money than the average American and really do care about this cause . http://www.cfr.org/publication/6429/getting_uncle_sams_ear.html If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Okay, help me out with your reasoning here. You claim Batista would have been overthrown because there were a lot of people who didn't like him. Then you claim that even more people don't like Castro, but in a couple of decades he has not been overthrown. Your reasoning makes no sense. Shouldn't you be even angrier at the US? Didn't they help or at least fund that "revolution"? This is totally false, the U.S. did not fund Castro's revolution. And there is no flaw here, Castro is far more ruthless than Batista could ever be and harder to defeat. Notice Batista ruled from 1933-1940 and then lost by election and another leader replaced him. He came back in 1952 (admittadly by force). He imprisoned Castro in 1953 for trying to overthrow him. Yes, Castro was trying to overthrow the government long before 1959. However, although Bastista was a dicator and had Castro and all his other Guerrilla thugs imprisoned, he let them go. If Castro had a militia trying to overthrow him in prison he wouldn't think twice before executing every last one of them. Proof is in the 113,000 that have been killed by Castro since 1959. Equading the two of them is absurd when you know the facts. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Different standards in different countries, some do suck, some don't. The US embargo is not in place because Cuba follows communism. China does as well and the US certainly has no problem whatsoever dealing with them. ------------------------------------------------------- I believe, I said that earlier in this thread. However, I went a little further to say that the Cuban embargo was there because of Cuban-American lobbies set up by people who actually know and care about what is going on in the Island. ================================= Would you advocate completely removing the tourist industry from Cuba? I would advocate taking back all the stolen businesses taken from the Cuban people and other countries with investments there. I guess that would require regime change. However, at this point Cuba is not a direct threat to the U.S., so it hardly justifies the U.S. going in there and setting right what was previously wronged. I would not support the regime any which way and do not respect somebody who does. Its funny just recently I went for vaction in the Dominican Republic. I came back with a box of DOMINICAN cigars. I could have bought Cubans and snuck them in, but would never do such a thing, as I consider it dispicable. I remember at the customs they read cigars and asked, from where? I said Dominican and they said it better not be Cuban. Ofcourse they didn't check, but it left me thinking, that this customs woman didn't know who she was talking to. For one thing the reason its illegal is because people of my background want it to be. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Then again, I wonder what Cuba would have been like if Batista had never been overthrown? -------------------------------------------------- I am going with better. However, I do think he would have been overthrown, regardless. There were a lot of people who didn't like him and many were fooled by Castro at first but quickly realized that Castro was worse. ================================ Had "The Mafia" continued to effectively control the island & Cuban economy? ----------------------------------------------- This is completely untrue. Does the Mafia control Brooklyn, NY or Cliffside Park, NJ? In case you don't know the answer I will tell you it doesn't. Is there a lot of mafia there? Yes. Do I support the mafia? Hell No! ============================= Rather worse, I'll bet. Mike. --------------------------------------------------- Again we disagree. But lets think about this Batista was the leader from 1933-1940 and then again from 1952-1959, during which Cuba did not fall to shit. Then Castro took power via a Cu and everything went to shit. Like much of this debate, I don't think it a matter of opinion, the facts are to clear. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Are you Joking? Lets see where we can start. My grandmother was a pharmacist who owned two pharmacies. When Castro came into power she got a letter in the mail (which btw I have read) that stated that her pharmacies from here on foward were property of the Cuban government and that if she chose she would be allowed to work in them. The same happened with my grandfather's auto body shop, and every business owner. Look up the living standard in Cuba pre-1959 and compare it to the rest of the America's and then look it up now. I can't sit here and go step by step on it, because its quite frustrating that so much is not common knowledge. If you want to learn more, I suggest getting a copy of Andy Garcia's new movie 'The lost City'. As a Cuban who escaped the Island at 5 years of age, he has gone out of his way to portray the most possible accurate picture for people who otherwise wouldn't have it. I highly recommend it. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Are you claiming there are no families in Cuba with 2 or 3 cars? Yes I am claiming that NO Cuban citizen, who is not in DEEP with the Castro's government, has 2 cars. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

You are just not getting it. Either that or you just don't understand how Communism works. More money is actually useless when you need to use something like this passbook to buy groceries, clothing or anything http://www.nocastro.com/news/libreta.htm In your pretty little world this may not exist but many of my family and freinds had to live by this standard. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

It most certainly is. Maybe for a Cuban senator or somebody somehow involved in Castro's regime. That reminds me of some special I saw where the were claiming that some Cuban families has 2 or even 3 cars. What a joke that is! Even though the Castro family owns more than 300 Mercedes Benz, the common folk are more typically reduced to riding on horseback, if that. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

I have never been to Cuba and certainly don't pretend to be an expert. Nice assumption though, reflects on the rest of your reasoning skills used.... My understanding is though, that Cubans definitely benefit from the tourism industry from countries other than the US. I have no doubt Castro is very rich, many leaders of countries are. ---------------------------------------------------- Its funny how you say you have no doubt and then you make this false statement. This is NOT a matter of opinion, I know many Cubans who are there and can tell you first hand that they are living like shit because of Castro, and that if you give him more money he will NOT improve the standard of living for the Cubans because keeping them hungry and fearing for their lives is how he stays in power. =============================== I still don't see how the embargo is helping the average Cuban though. It certainly hasn't helped to bring Castro's regime to an end.... --------------------------------------------------- Bringing down the embargo is adding fuel to the fire. Is it really so hard to understand that more money equals more advanced weaponry. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

That a pretty stupid line of thought, but I guess that is not something new. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

The US ARMED Castro's revolutionaries! America welcomed Castro as far better than rule by Organised-Crime Batista. It was only when he introduced land reforms which impacted on American companies that America protested. Incidentally, by todays standards, Castro's land reforms were actually pretty conservative and effectively form modern company policy today. This like most of what you have posted on the matter is a joke and displays a clear lack of knowledge. I find it pointless to debate with somebody who is this confused. So, I will give you a link to can educate your self on Cuban history. http://www.historyofcuba.com/cuba.htm . If you read the entire history you might understand the U.S. positions through the years more clearly. But since the current topic in which you have demonstrated lack of Knowledge is the effects and causes of the Cuban revolution, I would skipped up to 1959 and go from there. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Once again, because Someone diesn't wholly agree with an extreme viewpoint, they must be "Clueless". No your responses are what prove how clueless you are. =============================== Obviously more than you have assumed. How many time have YOU been to Cuba? -------------------------------------------------- I have not been to Cuba by choice. My parents parents, grandparents and most Cuban-Americans born in Cuba, never returned for the same reason as the Embargo. We don't want to bring American dollars there. Is this such a difficult concept to understand. This does not mean that we have not kept in touch with the unfortunate ones who were not able to flee from the island by other means or even by the ones who have been coming across for the last 47 YEARS. =================================== You seem to assume a lack of knowledge on my part. ------------------------------------------------- I think reading your post its not an assumption but a clear understanding. ================================ If Cubans are sucessful in killing that man... Cubans could not possibly be happier any other prospect, other than a regime change in Cuba. I know that for a fact. Which pretty clearly gives YOUR opinion of Cuba - committed anti-Castro. -------------------------------------------------- Yes I am anti-Castro as are the overwelming majority of Cubans both in and out of the Island. =============================== If all CUbans are SO against Castro, then why hasn't there been a popular uprising, rather than a bunch of increasingly marginalised expatriates dreaming of Der-Tag? The good old days of a stable Mafia Capitalist government. If I remember rightly, the last popular uprising in Cuba was... ----------------------------------------------- And you wonder why I say you are clueless on this matter. For you information over 113K thousand Cubans have died due to fighting this regime. Its naive and best to assume that its an easy task to just step up and kill him. =================================== Castro has remained in power for40+ years, do you really see some amazing massive change simply as a result of his death? ------------------------------------------------------ Yes I do. He is a madman who has many people who fear him. The next guy who steps up will probably not have the witts to keep the status quo, and Cuban-Americans have more than enough money to build the Island back up, to make it the happy place it was before. I am not saying that the mindset that has been created there after 40 plus years will dissapear over night, but it will improve imediately. ================================ Particularly in response to America saying: "Now you've got oil, we'd like to be your friend again." --------------------------------------------------- That might happen with the Democrats in power. But the Republicans would not be stupid enough to loose their Cuban base. If Miami was not as Cuban as it is, Florida would have been lost without a doubt. Ending this embargo is certainly a way to piss Cubans off enough to abstain from voting if not worse. (Vote for the socialists) =================================== My own read is that the Chinese, Venezuelan & European influence is too well established. Exploration, drilling & profit sharing agreements are already being put in place, so short of America invading and effectively doing a "smash & grab" on Cuban oil, robbing the existing partners, you've "missed-the-boat"(sic). -------------------------------------------- The only thing I can assertain from this is that you think that oil money is going to keep the Communists afloat in Cuba. I think that it may however, I still believe that once Castro dies the next person will be quickly overthrown. Cubans hate that government and as soon as its possible will overthrow it. Again we, Cuban-Americans do NOT want to add to the fire by pouring more money into Castro's bank accounts. ============================= With hindsight, the embargo is something that should have been quietly dropped years ago, if only on the basis that the best way to influence a country is to get close to it (and, if necessary, hug it to death). Mike. ------------------------------------------------- Yeah I, and many other people who know far more about this than you, disagree. I will cite as evidence Reagan. He did not cause the Soviet Union to fall by opening up trade agreements with them. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

The U.S. has hated Castro from day one. Unfortunately though with a pussy like Keneddy in office nothing was done about it until it was too late. I think it was in 2000 that some Cuban-Americans from my home town were stopped in Panama on a mission to assinate Castro at a summit in Venezuela http://edition.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/11/17/panama.castro.02/ They were withheld by the Panamanian government for some three years if I recall correctly, and then freed to come to the U.S. Venezuela, with that want to be Castro piece of shit, wanted them sent Venezuela (so he could kill them of course). Its been speculated that the U.S. was involved in pressuring Panama behind the seens to save these great men. Now you can say that is speculation. But if indeed that is the case you can use that to guage how the U.S. government feels about the Cuban hatred of Castro. I will go a little further, in as much to ask you, why do you think the U.S. has that embargo on Cuba? Do you really believe that its solely because the U.S. cares about Cuba's human rights policies? or to fight communism? If so then what about all that trade with China. China is as bad if not worse. No that is not the reason. The reason is because, of Cuban-Americans like me who do actually care about what is happening in Cuba, lobbying to make sure the Embargo stays where it is. We may not succeed in bringing the Communist goverment down with the embargo, especially with all those Europeans and Canadians who couldn't give a rats ass about Cuba. But we certainly do not want to add to the fire by letting American dollars help that regime that we want to fall. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

No it was time for regime change when that piece of shit Keneddy turned his back on 1500 Cuban-Americans that went back as ground troops (with an agreement of American air cover) to save Cuba by over-throwing Castro. Right now, what we need is for the stupid ignorant people who know nothing about Cuba to shut up and wait just as we Cuban-Americans are waiting for that son of a bitch to die or even better for somebody to finally suceed in assinating that asshole. www.killcastro.com . See we even set up a special fund for it, 15 Million for whoever takes him out. Its been made quite clear that when he dies the power will be transferred to his brother Raul and we strongly believe he will take the money and run to some country that will take criminals in. However, just incase, you can see there is a fund for 1.5 million for whoever takes out his brother. See your comparison with Iraq and Cuba shows your ignorance on the matter. Virtually no Cuba-American and very few Cubans (who never left) would be upset if the U.S. asassinated Castro or took him out of power any possible way. Did you know that the son of a bitch has not slept in the same place for 2 nights in a row ever since Cubans fully understood his policies. Do you know that he has his underwear incinerated because of fear that if its washed that a CUBAN will put some sort of acid on it to kill him. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

It's out of respect for all of our fellow non-american skydivers. So what does 10 inches equal? 25.4 cm , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

ok here goes. Ladies don't race to the send me pm's I am taken and she definately has her hands full. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Yeah Turkey is one of the more moderate ones. Not by any means as peaceful as UAE though. But I seem to recall that there was a difference with them from the start, something about an Ottaman Empire. I saw in some history channel special that Mohammed was illiterate and the Koran was written by people he preached to 25 years after his death. For that reason it split into different views with similarities amongst the people he preached to. I find a lot of this history fasinating and worth being studied. But you have to admit there is currently no equivalent (of a non-Islamic religion) in the world to Hamas, Hizbollah or Al Queda. These groups are the greatest threat to the world currently. I can admit to the flaw in my arguement that Islam will ALWAYS make terrorists. But can you explain why Islam is the only religion that will endorse terrorists. As for Hitler, I heard he was actually half Jewish. And while he was trying to annihilate Jews, the Catholic Orphanages were taking Jewish orphans in and raising them "Catholic" to save their lives. I know, personally, Polish Jews who were saved this way. They never really converted to Catholism and the Catholics who saved them did not intend for that to be the case. Now, to suggest that because there was some Christian teaching that Hilter had, that Christianity could somehow be responsible for his actions is proposterous. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Actually I have nothing against Christian, Agnostic or Aethiest arabs. On the contrary I have quite a few good freinds like that. Three of them I can think of that I work with are from Lebanon and a couple from Syria. I feel sorry for them because I know many of them have family that could be blown up as we speak. But just as well I feel sorry for freinds in Tel Aviv. And more importantly, I understand who started it and on whose territory it started. , So its just Muslims you view as Untermenschen. Thanks for the clarification. Have you never read any of my posts before? Actually I will go one step further and say its not fair to blame all Muslims, because most of them were born into this faith as opposed to having chosen it. Women who don't follow it are more likely to receive and "honor killing" than anything else. As a true Muslim, I suspect you don't need me to explain the "honor killings". Now to finally state my opinion, I blame Islam. I think its a psychotic religion/cult that will always come back to violence and I believe that until it is irradicated there will be wars over religion. Now so that you know in advance, I will not spend the rest of my day responding to posts of people trying to dig back 1000 years something they can blame Christians for. And just as well I will not respond to somebody mentioning something horrific that was done by somebody who was just randomly raised is another faith. I am obviously addressing opinions voiced by clerics who speak for a religion, kind of like the Mosque from Jersey City, NJ that funded the 1993 world trade center bombing or the prime minister of Iran calling for the destruction of Israel or the Iatola calling for the execution of Salmon Rushbee because he was offended by his book or the violence in Denmark over the cartoons, I mean the list just goes on and on. I just don't have enough time to play this game again. , , Hitler did what he did in the frim belife that he was a Christian and was carring out Gods will. I could go onto name dozens of others but I hope you get the point. People of every religion have used God to justify the most terrible of acts. No doubt you'll find some reference from the Koran to 'prove' what a blood thirsty bunch the Muslims are, and I could pull out dozens of references from the Bible to counter the point. Islam isn't the problem any more than Christianity is. The problem is a Socio economic one which varies regionally. With Israel there is alot of issues on both sides. To blame it all on Islam is ridculous and lazy at best. I would quickly state that the facts dispute what you say. However to be completely honest there is one specific instance that does have me baffled about that arguement. UAE. I don't really underststand how a place 96% Muslim can be so pleasant and not troublesome. Some would be quick to say its because they are all rich, but if that was the case then Saudi Arabia would not be such a breeding ground for terrorists. I would say that UAE is hope for that faith but I am actually thinking there must be something different about their faith. Maybe they are really agnostic and just claim to be Muslim, or are all Shieit or Sunni. I am not sure. But something is different. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

It's Every bit as bad. Using civilians as a human shield is surely an absolute. to go a bit further, I'd say it was WORSE. Firstly because while Hamas & Hezb'Allah may use folk as willing human shields, the Israelis kidnap civilians arbitrarily for the same purpose. Secondly, It utterly destroys Israel's claims to any moral right in this conflict. The use of hostages as human shields places Israel right there with Saddam Hussein and Nazi Germany. A significant degree worse than any terrorist organisation which has the support (or at least co-operation) of the people in which it operates. Mike. I understand your point. However, this is my take on it. Somebody recently failed trying trying to break into my truck but broke my door handle. Now, I wish I could beat the ever-living shit out of this guy. So I am by no means a fan of his activity. However, I do think less of a thief who is willing to steal from his own mother, family or freinds. And I don't believe that all of these women used as human shields do so voluntarily. I have heard of reports where they were otherwised threatened with "honor killings" instead. , , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Actually I have nothing against Christian, Agnostic or Aethiest arabs. On the contrary I have quite a few good freinds like that. Three of them I can think of that I work with are from Lebanon and a couple from Syria. I feel sorry for them because I know many of them have family that could be blown up as we speak. But just as well I feel sorry for freinds in Tel Aviv. And more importantly, I understand who started it and on whose territory it started. , So its just Muslims you view as Untermenschen. Thanks for the clarification. Have you never read any of my posts before? Actually I will go one step further and say its not fair to blame all Muslims, because most of them were born into this faith as opposed to having chosen it. Women who don't follow it are more likely to receive and "honor killing" than anything else. As a true Muslim, I suspect you don't need me to explain the "honor killings". Now to finally state my opinion, I blame Islam. I think its a psychotic religion/cult that will always come back to violence and I believe that until it is irradicated there will be wars over religion. Now so that you know in advance, I will not spend the rest of my day responding to posts of people trying to dig back 1000 years something they can blame Christians for. And just as well I will not respond to somebody mentioning something horrific that was done by somebody who was just randomly raised is another faith. I am obviously addressing opinions voiced by clerics who speak for a religion, kind of like the Mosque from Jersey City, NJ that funded the 1993 world trade center bombing or the prime minister of Iran calling for the destruction of Israel or the Iatola calling for the execution of Salmon Rushbee because he was offended by his book or the violence in Denmark over the cartoons, I mean the list just goes on and on. I just don't have enough time to play this game again. , , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Actually I have nothing against Christian, Agnostic or Aethiest arabs. On the contrary I have quite a few good freinds like that. Three of them I can think of that I work with are from Lebanon and a couple from Syria. I feel sorry for them because I know many of them have family that could be blown up as we speak. But just as well I feel sorry for freinds in Tel Aviv. And more importantly, I understand who started it and on whose territory it started. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

I didn't say it was ok. As a matter of fact Israel did not say it was ok. Did you not read the article. What I said was its not the same thing and its not. To go a bit further I do think its not as bad. , If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.