ChasingBlueSky

To be fair Lisa, both sides do it. I personally know of a woman that dumped her boyfriend and was 'dating' someone else within two days. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

The fact that money was brought in as a factor to qualify a guy causes red flags to go up. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Send me a PM and let me know if that $54 class was in the area Cora - even if it is in WI. I'm going to try the no-show thing a few times to see if I get in. Taking the safe approach on this entire thing - planning on the course and getting leather or other protective gear before I purchase the bike. Besides, I won't have the rest of that disposable income to mid summer. (I'll get that book as well) Also, I am going used - this will be my first bike and I don't want to spend a ton of cash on something I may dump due to inexperience. I'm looking at cruisers in the 750 range - after I'm used to that I will go bigger! Hey Cora, once I get it, I'm gonna need someone to roll with. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Already do. Had a Chevy Baretta plow thru me my senior year of high school while on a side street. The course is mandatory for me (personal choice) before I get my bike. I guess that makes me course dependant? _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

I do have the option of riding the bench at one of the locations on Sat morning. IF someone misses their spot, I can have it. I'm starting to think the safe bet is to drop the cash. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Ugh...every class until October is FULL within a three hour drive of Chicago!!! Well, the free ones are. Looks like I may need to drop $300 on one of the private classes. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Then we agree. Some people apparently think it is OK for someone that feels a jump is too risky, to go ahead and do it anyway because they have a Cypres. Derek Curious - you seem to always mention the scenario "one jump" is too risky. What about the jumper that feels ALL jumps are too risky to do without an AAD? What entertains me about this endless argument is that it covers a very small portion of the active jumpers. However I have heard nearly every jumper at one point dismiss their terrible pack job by claiming they have a reserve to save them. Now, where do we have more deaths in this sport? By those that stack the deck in their favor by wearing a Cypres for those events they can't plan for.....or from some form of malfunction? Last I checked there hasn't ever been one in the first category and we just had a death in the other category this past weekend from a very experienced jumper. People continue to argue in this thread with no real point. No conclusion. No offereing a process to improve things. Instead they continue to argue and throw out hypothetical situations and try to one-up each each in a verbal sparring match in the hopes of getting the last word. How does any of this help or further the sport? _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

See I don't...Safe is AVOIDING dangerous situations. An AAD will increase the chances of survival, but that does not make you safer. Then to be safe you should not skydive at all, after all that is AVOIDING a dangerous situation. No? Said it before - this entire discussion is subjective depending on what you personally consider a risk. I've yet to see a report where someone was hurt, injured, or killed because of this so called AAD Device Dependancy you speak of. I have personally seen one person saved from a Cypres fire (she quit the sport) and have read the reports of others. At least one life saved and not one death caused is more than enough proof for me. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Nope..Ever heard "I'll be OK since I have a CYPRES?" Yup, from a guy that didn't have one in his rig. I've only heard it as a joke. No one that I consider a friend has ever said it. So, no one has died because of a Cypres. We have people alive because of them. Once again, if it keeps the stupid people alive I'm ok with that. So it is ok for those that go on 'more dangerous' jumps without one (well, I guess it would be a good idea for Jeb if he tries to land his wingsuit)? Who is really the judge in what is considered more dangerous? Stand back and try not to post for a week or two. Just read the forums and take it all in. You will see that there is a pissing contest nearly every day of people saying something was too dangerous or stupid and others saying it wasn't. Only the ground gets to make that decision in the end. Yes, there are device dependent people out there. Ok, now what? How large of the population is it? Does it truly propose a risk or is it speculation? If so, what is the way to fix it? Can it be fixed? Is this really one of the top three issues this sport needs to address? _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Don't forget that years of experience in related field, degree, field of study, location and previous position, and salary history all have an impact on what you will make at your next job. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Been on a 48-way shot and a 36 way without one while on borrowed gear. Took three hard hits during the 48-way (gotta love being in the base aka the target). So, I guess that would be a yes. Have you ever heard "If he just didn't have a Cypress he would be alive?" What exactly is the point to this argument? That a select amount of people are device dependent? That they, in their personal observations, feel a dive may be a bit risky than others and want backup (you will fault them for this)? Everyone has a different level of risk assestment. I know you will never find me under a tiny crossbraced canopy going for long pond swoops - I like my pelvis and femur in one piece (I know I haven't hook it in, can't say that about others in this thread). However, many jumpers feel this is no big deal. A jump that someone feels is risky may be no big deal to you. Some will look at the history of jumps (like a 300+ way) and realize that they should learn from past accidents. Who are you, or anyone, to judge that they are device dependent or just being safe? How many times do we hear - you are responsible for yourself in this sport? This whole debate is subjective. Those that feel they are right in their thoughts are obviously going to go on endlessly why they are in the right. But to fault someone because they want to be on the safe side? Would you look at a body on the ground that could have been saved by a Cypres and say "Well, at least we know he wasn't device dependent." What will satisfy you in this argument? I don't get your point at all. You continue to argue points but don't push thru anything. This is pointless and will run in circles until the personal attacks start. If the person is dangerous and an obvious threat to the safety of the DZ in any form - then don't let them on the plane. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Ah, but people do say that.... hmmmm....have never heard anyone say that, and I tend to deal with a lot of new jumpers. Maybe that comes from good instruction and leadership on the DZ? nah, that's crazy talk, right? hmmm....maybe if you start teaching that to them at the tandem level instead of hoping they drop a bad habit idea during student status. You don't need to break a bad habit if it never starts. If you have a good instructor teaching the tandems that doesn't say "you don't need to worry, we have a Cypres if anything goes wrong." I've heard that a lot in those ten minute tandem mill training classes. Wow...look at that.... Again.... Did I ever argue against sitting on the ground when it wasn't safe to go up (weather, type of jump, whatever)? Hmmmm....let me think. Nope. Never did that. Never will. I have and will again jump without one. But since I can't prepare for everything, I choose to have one on most jumps I do. I've never needed or come close to needing my hook knife yet I wear one. I never had a problem with my old risers without the inserts but I went ahead and got them anyway, then I had a spinner mal. Up until my mal I never needed my reserve but I always had one with me just in case. Up until I took a helmet to my head I never needed my own helmet but I wore one on every jump just in case. It's not the things we plan for that kill us, it's the things we never see coming that cause us to bounce. Wow, I guess I am soo crazy to plan for the worst. Funny - I've yet to ever hear someone say "If he just didn't have a Cypres he would still be alive." Maybe they do help keep stupid people alive - do you have a problem with that? A cypes fire only gains attention in our community, not the press. Now if we could only get a similar device for the idiots that need to downsize and hookturn before they are ready! Making the correlation to anyone that won't jump without a Cypres is device dependent, and thus unsafe, is flawed and incorrect. It is a sweeping statement that obviously only covers a small percentage of this sport. Would you really use a poll on a web site to support that? It's very easy to ruin the results - just remove your cookies and you can vote as many times as you want. Or better yet, how many people read what was here first and then voted because of popular opinion? There are far more glaring problems in this sport that need to be addressed first. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

yummmm... great now i want pizza The office is ordering Lou Malnati's butter-crust for our conference call today! _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Salary.com is one of the better ones. You can go to the Census and look at that as well. Most of the major job boards like Monster have something simliar as well. Your local unemployment office will have a breakdown for certain areas but not as specific as what you are looking for. If it is IT related send me a PM and I can compare it to what dollar amounts for full time jobs people in the Midwest and Toronto are getting. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

The Original Gino's East. Still around, just moved to a bigger location. You can still write on the walls, tables, etc. Best. Pizza. Ever. No one makes pizza like Chicago. No one. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

No. If they have a different opinion they are not a troll. However the total lack of an educated response to the issue at hand tends to deliver the "troll" title to someone. I'm sure if someone could come up with a really good reason whyit is ok to steal from other people for the purpose of expanding their wallet, many people here would shut up about this. Quite a few times some hard questions have been asked and only a troll response meant to discredit this conversation comes along. The fact is that some posters in here have had their entire web sites stolen. People have had their named used as a JM at a fictional DZ. Photographers have had their photos stolen and have issued letters to the company to remove them and they are still there. There are a litany of complaints on the BBB related to Skyride and some of those people have showed up here complaining about bait and switch practices and total misrepresentation of a company/product. Comparison of Skyride to 800-skydive is true on an overal biz model....however the biz model is NOT the issue here. Advertising to help your DZ is NOT the issue here. Jumpers at the DZ are not the issues here. Yet, every troll comes along and tries to claim these things. If someone can explain why the above stated issues are ok, I know we would all shut up about it. Yet we know that will never happen - esp when one of the owners arrives at the BOD meeting and claims ignorance to what his company is doing . Thus legal action and community action is now needed. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Agreed. No jump is safe. I did my first 150 jumps off student status without one. I don't NEED one (and have proven that) but I WANT one on every jump. Shortly after putting my AAD back in my rig I was knocked out in freefall. I came to only a few short seconds later, but if it was any worse I would have needed it. I've been on the DZ when someone NEEDED the AAD in his rig to be turned on....it was a simple two way and he had over 1000 jumps. However, it was too late and we all got to hear people say nice things about him at his funeral. I WANT to avoid that happening to me and those around me. But nonetheless, I could have attended one less funeral if someone had been using their Cypres. I've yet to meet someone that has said "If they just didn't have a Cyrpes we wouldn't have lost our friend." I don't measure ANY jump and say "Well, this one is risky, but it's ok since I have an AAD." Yet, people seem to think that is the same thing as saying "I won't jump without an AAD because it is risky." Two very different things. Those that love to make an argument over this whole "wanting" a cypres thing never seem to understand that difference and claim those that do are device dependent....and they, and their puppets, go on endlessly about it....... It's interesting watching them argue against people when they are in full agreement with them but failed to see the nuance of the words. Maybe it will take a funeral for a friend for them to realize what is really being said. Hopefully people will say nice things at their funeral as well if they get killed in a situation where a Cypres would have saved them. There isn't ONE safe skydive you can do. They are all dangerous. They are all high risk. Even a solo from a bi-plane has the possibility of you needing one. Can you do that jump without one? Yup, without a doubt. Should you sit on the ground if your Cypres is in for checkup and not do that jump? Well, that's a personal decision and I wouldn't try to stop you. But maybe you should think about stacking the deck in your favor? Their will always be the contrary people that love to argue that ALL newbies are device dependent because of something they heard from one or two lowtimers (and give no credit to the JM's that taught them)......or because of the simple play on words I pointed above. Then their are oldtimers that like to brag they don't use an AAD and that you should be like them and not use one. These also seem to be the ones that are ok with humming it and dumping below 2000 under a Safire or similar canopy. Or those that jump while stone or drunk and those that encourage them (and encourage or approve of midday drug use at the DZ). Maybe these bad examples are where you should be wasting your efforts instead of yet another AAD thread. Or better yet - be a good example on the DZ and show the newbies how it's done safely and encourage safe practices. The young tend to emulate what they see around them. If they are acting up and being stupid the first thing you should do is look in the mirror and see if they learned it from you. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Just came back from opening night in Chicago....damn good show. Not sure I will ever be able to watch Wizard of Oz the movie the same way again. It really shows how important point of view is when explaining history. I may need to read the book now. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Why? Do friendships end when you are not skydiving? _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Started drinking at 330p in the office with the rest of the crew....still going! _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

It's official! Best. Job. Ever. They put 12 bottles of Corona and 12 bottles of Heineken in the fridge tonight so they are chilled for tomorrow afternoon. Why? To celebrate a birthday in the office. Also spent part of the afternoon talking to the boss about the finer points of good beer (need to break him of that frosty mug habit). How cool is that? _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

No kidding...I know someone that is looking for an Adrenalin Junkie (yes, they really did ask for that)that is also a seasoned software engineer and ace coder (C, C++, Java, Perl, Python) in a Unix clustered environment. My guess is someone with at least 7-10 years experience. Position is in CA and in Ireland (relocation avail). PM me if you want to know about it. Just had to share _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

The problem with most movies is they lack the narrative that is pushed on by the author of most any book. The actors try to represent visually the internal dialog they we had access to in book form. This is why most movies fail to truly represent what the book meant to anyone. A great movie that goes into what it takes to bring a book to script is "Adaptation." It is a must see for anyone that has ever complained about a movie based on a book. Btw - this movie does have a narrator (the one from the trailer). For example - the part with the whale is full narration. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....

Yea nothing new there, Joilet is still the closest station as far as I know. There is an Amtrack stop in Ottawa. Driving from downtown on a Friday afternoon will take about 2 hours - rush hour starts early on the weekends. Your best bet will be I-55 (Stevenson)South to I-80 West. You will run into two big traffic spots on I-55 near Damen and again near Weber (where it merges down to two lanes). From downtown to the I-80 exit will be about 45 miles and will be the only stretch you see traffic on. Once on I-80 you have about 40 miles to go to the dropzone thru mostly farm country. Unless their is an accident you should have clear roads (watch for state troopers, and they do use planes to catch speeders in that area). If there isn't anything happening at the Route 66 racetrack on Sunday you shouldn't face any traffic on I-80 back into the city. I-55 will start to slow down near Weber Road again and shouldn't be too bad the rest of the way in. _________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again.....