skydived19006

Those are list prices, who the hell pays list? The last Icarus 365 I purchased, I paid somewhere around $2400. Does HOP play that game as well, or is their list actually their "price." I can't imagine that they sell for 65% of the price you quoted, that would put them at $1500. You should, it's quite significant (if you come to replace your main): From http://www.icaruscanopies.aero/pdf/USD_Pricelist_2007_Rev_1_0.pdf From http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/05253(tandemPL).pdf From http://www.aerodyne-int.com/download/Aerodyne_PriceList.pdf From http://www.strongparachutes.com/Pics/Tandem/Set366_Tandem_Canopy.pdf From http://scskydivers.com/hop.html Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I've jumped almost exclusively Icarus tandem mains (Old Precision/Icarus, Current Icarus, and new Precision Tandem. 330 and 365 sf.), and they're excellent in wind and turbulence. I also shoot video, and in wind would prefer to do the tandem as jump my Icarus Crossfire, which sucks in turbulence. I'd like to demo a few other tandem mains, but it seems like pulling teeth to get a demo canopy. I talked with Red of Flight Concepts, and he even promised to send me out a main, but it never happened. I'd like to jump a HOP, but am not going to buy one just to demo, then return if I don't like it. The Icarus mains have light toggle pressure (all of mine are set up 2/6). They fly fast, but perform well in winds; we routinely jump in winds above 20 mph. In low winds it’s always a slide in landing, I’ll often leave 30 to 50’ landing skids from my feet toughing to stop. They’re also light in rear riser control, I can pull a riser turn or flair with heavy loading, no problem, and I’m no Mr. Atlas. I’ll load the 365s up to 500 + lbs, and get a powerful flair, and nice landings. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I’m DZO at a small (one 182) DZ in Wichita Kansas. We offer hand cam ($50.00), and outside video with stills ($85.00). I and one other TI do all the tandems, and all the video. If we did 10 tandems in a day all with outside video, we’d obviously be on 10 loads (20 pack jobs), with one odd slot for a fun jumper to tag along, leaving maybe 6 loads for fun jumpers, and students throughout the day. With hand cam those same 10 tandems will go on 5 loads, leaving 11 loads for fun jumpers, students, etc. In reality, we could do a max of 8 tandems in a long day out of a 182 if all had traditional video, we can do easily do 12 to 14 with hand cam. Both of us had in the neighborhood of 1000 tandems before ever strapping on the camera. For us its simple economics, the hand cam frees up the airplane for something other than tandem, and it reduces the TI/Vidiots work load. If I were DZO with a turbine aircraft, needed to fill slots, had a line of vidiots waiting to work, etc. the situation is about 180 degrees out of phase with my situation. IMO the “real value” of traditional video are the stills. You can do so much more with the stills, carry them to the bar, work, school, etc with you, load them on your computer, post on the internet, make a colander, frame it and hang it in your living room next to your first jump certificate, tattoo it on your ass, etc. With video, it seems to me that people will force as many people as they can watch it for a few days, then it goes in a cabinet, and they watch it once every few years. The advantage of hand cam for the student is that they get canopy ride footage and interview. There are some interesting angles, and shots with hand cam on the plane, in freefall, and under canopy (now hard right and look up at the canopy/camera (earth spinning below, student screaming), now hard left and look down at the camera (canopy, horizon spinning above, student screaming) They “get to jump with their buddy” which in a 182 can not happen with traditional video. Mark and I also generally will fly within 15’ or so under canopy and film each other for a few seconds (not suggesting that everyone do this). Our normal exit altitude is 10k, but once in a while we hit a ceiling at 7, or 8k. 7,000’ gives about 12 seconds to shoot outside video, HC gives 12 seconds of freefall, all with tight video, and as much as 5 min under canopy. Oh, it’s $35 cheaper. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I never did say "it's scary". That said, I do not have experience with Spinal Cord Injury (SCI) tandems. I take what I do seriously, and do not experiment with other people's (and my) lives. I just read, and Jen Sharp sent to Brandon for his information the 60+ page Thesis on Tandem Skydiving with Wheel Chair Dependant Persons. There's a lot more to it than I had even imagined! Everything from problems with blood flow to the skin (ulcers), mussel spasms, potential neck problems (whiplash), bone density issues, and it would obviously be easier out of an airplane larger than a C182. Simply hooking up, getting out the door, and off the airplane safely is a huge issue! Thesis on UPTs site: http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=38 I have not given up on Brandon, but at this point I'm not promising anything other than to meet and go from there. Martin AC DZ Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

It would be nice if one of those many disgruntled Skyride boiler room emploees would "leak" a list. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Here are a couple of the Kansas DZs Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Maybe not "good" but affective. Running red lights to get where you're going faster may not be good driving, but it is affective, at lest until you crash, or are stoped, ticketed, etc. By "good marketing" he obviously wasn't trying to make Skyride out to be the "guys in the white hat", just that they are good at doing what they do. Congratulations on being post #2000! How long to hit 3000? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Here’s a fun statistic I noticed. I got my “A” license in 1995, #19518, so it took the USPA the first 30+ years to hit the 20,000 mark (this isn’t scientific by any means, because not every skydiver applies for an “A” number). Today, 11 years later the A numbers are over 50,000. When you talk about membership going up/down, I think it’s less an issue of the number of students becoming skydivers (student retention), but skydivers not staying in the sport for long after getting licensed (skydiver retention). Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Hey, maybe we could get USPA to put up a page on MySpace to increase web presence in an effort to counter the 1000 Skyride sites! http://www.uspa.org/news/index.htm#010207 That or they could spend a couple of hours doing some very simple web site optimization, so they get top 3 FREE search results in any search containing any form of the word skydive! Now, where have I been hearing that idea for the last 2 years? Then, this idea didn't origionate with Chris Needles, so it's not worth pursuing (regardless BOD and membership input). Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

The "extra money" gets carried over. That's where the money for the new museum, and offices came from "saving up". Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Can you provide a link to the guidestar.com page, or is membership/fee required? Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

$30,000 times $49 = $1,470,000 a year. That's a lot of change. We need to make sure it's all being accounted for. This doesn't even take into account the fees group members pay. Or advertising revanue. As far as "ask USPA", I've heard from very reputable source that Chris Needles refuses to disclose salaries to BOD members, unless it's the chairman, and maybe one or two others. If this information isn't even disclosed to the BOD, do you think they're going to disclose it to you simply by asking? I'd also heard that Roger Nelson had taken up this issue, and ran into nothing but a stone wall. Difference may be now that communication is much better, and a grass roots campaign is as easy as starting a discussion string on dropzone.com. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I’d like to see the financials, but I’m personally more interested in accountability. What level of authority does the BOD have over staff? Dose the BOD only have control of the BSRs, and no real authority over staff? Does the BOD have hire/fire authority over the staff (that’s the real acid test!)? The only control the membership has over the direction of THEIR organization is through the BOD. If the BOD is simply a group of castrated figure heads, then in turn we have no control of our organization at all. In that case ultimately the only control the membership would really have is in membership renewal. If we can’t control this organization politically, we can simply choose to un-fund the damn thing! You don’t pay your federal and state taxes; eventually people with guns will come looking for you, that’s not the case with the USPA! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

My tits look great the way they are now. But going to a D would allow me to do more things with them when I'm in that kind of mood. I will probably stay a "C" but am considering going to a "D". Just wanted some advice from the people that check them out the most, SKYDIVERS!!! From your description, you sound to be right near perfect to me, seems silly to screw with perfection. As far as "more things", I have a fairly vivid imagination, have seen my share of porn, etc. and I can't think of much that would qualify as reason to change what you're working with right now. Maybe you can bring me up to speed? I wouldn't even consider asking for pictures. You wouldn't send or post anyway. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I agree with what Tim is saying as for size of class. My DZ only does 40 +/- IAD first jump students a year, we make 5 +/- "A" license jumpers a year. By far the majority of first jumpers at my DZ opt for tandem, and maybe half of the FJC students have done a tandem. Anyway, I pay the instructor $20 a head to train, and $10 to put them out, if they have only 3 in class and put them out that's $90. On a load of 3 at 4k (we put out IAD students from 4k), they make $30, that will only generally happen after FJC. They also make $10 to jump with freefall students. $10 is basically half the fun jump price. We do only train the FJC twice a month (2nd and 4th Sats), don't have a huge demand, and pays the Instructor a little more, because he has more students per class. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Have you read The Rainmaker? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Just because they're breaking the law doesn't mean that you'll ever find an entity (state, federal, local) that's willing to prosecute it. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Ok, so this is a joke, but as with jokes in general the levity is in the truth of it. A man owned a small dropzone in Kansas. The Kansas Wage & Hour Dept. claimed he was not paying proper wages to his help and sent an agent out to interview him. "I need a list of your employees and how much you pay them," demanded the agent. "Well," replied the DZO, "There's my Chief Tandem Instructor who's been with me for 5 years. I pay him $500 a weekend plus. The Solo Instructor has been here for 8 years, and I pay him $500 per weekend plus. Then there's the half-wit who works about 18 hours every day. He cleans the facility, empties the trash, flies the airplane, packs parachutes, jumpmasters students, and picks up after everyone. He makes about $10 per week, pays his own room and board and I buy him a bottle of bourbon every Saturday night." "That's the guy I want to talk to, the half-wit," says the agent. "That would be me," replied the DZO Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

And I frequent titty bars in and attempt to counsel the young ladies in the depravity of their chosen profession. Altruism can be such a bitch at times! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

It's always fun to see what those with no perspective have to say, how uninformed it is, and how impressed they are with thier own "knowledge". The 10 year thing is about perspective. You are right about one thing, my DZ is my business, both figuratively and literally. One thing that is often overlooked is that if it weren't for DZOs cooperating with Skyride it wouldn't be an issue at all. Those DZs who accept the Skyride certificates are no better than Ben and Cary. It would be similar to hanging out in titty bars, and complain about how immoral the dancers are for doing what they're doing. Their no better/worse than the guys stuffing dollars down their G-strings. God love those girls! Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

The short answer is that if it weren't for DZOs you wouldn't be a skydiver, no DZs no skydivers. What affects the DZOs indirectly affects the skydiver. I could go on, but it's not worth the time, if you want more of the same just read back through this thread. Also get back to me when you have a few jumps and you've been around for 10 years. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

How's "reckon not" fit? Is it regional, or just "Josy Wales"? Funny to me anyway. I'm at work, so was curious and knew the net nanny would shut me down. Then figured I could always go to dz.com to find the pic. I think that the decision to flash cooter, it would have been much more appreciated a few years ago!! Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here, these two emails describe how this canopy came to be "lost" and how it found it's way home. This thread, and web site were instrumental. My main point is that if/when you see something suspicious like this, spread the word, you just may help to set things right. Martin (Email from Dave AKA bob.dino) I'm sure Dee can fill in the details I miss, but here's my understanding of the situation: 1- Canopy was chopped in July. 2- Canopy is taken by passer-by within 20min. Warnervale had teams of searchers and the aircraft out looking for it for a week. 3- The canopy is reported stolen and a police report is filed. 4- Several months later, the seller figures they can make some quick money, and places an ad saying they found the canopy in Sept. 5- Due to Troy's vigilance and the magic of the internet, Warnervale and Dee are notified of the sale. 6- Contact is made with the seller who professes to have tried returning the canopy. Which is deeply unlikely, as Warnervale is the only DZ within about 100km, and *everyone* at the airport knew about the lost canopy. Additionally, the canopy has suffered no UV damage, so it has been stored inside since shortly after being chopped. 7- Seller quickly shuts up and returns the canopy as the prospect of a police investigation and possible criminal conviction looms. After all, they're attempting to sell stolen goods. 8- A grateful Dee relaxes :-) later, dave. (Email from Dee DZO) Dave’s version is pretty spot on When I spoke to the seller she said her husband had found it in a tree at Warnervale but was unaware there was any skydiving at the airport. Had they even gone to the airport at least would have been a fundamental start. I think he is a truck driver and is in and out of the industrial area (where the canopy was found) all the time and would have certainly seen canopies there on many occasions, as it is our regular DZ. They said they contacted someone at an old DZ on the other side of Sydney . Had they done a search on google or opened their local telephone directory, we almost jump out of the page. They definitely did not try very hard to find the owner So think they had no intentions of returning it, only seeing what they could profit out of it on ebay. Unfortunately whilst it is stealing, it would be very difficult to prove so am forced to let it be. I am however extremely grateful to have it back, so I am glad they did try and sell it as it gave us an opportunity to get it back Dee Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Well shit! There goes that ass hole reputation I've been working so hard on. I sent out an email to a "list" of dzos, and included a couple of DZs in OZ. Figured that the Australian DZs would circulate the information around. Guess the info got home, regardless of how. Apparently the Internet is good for more than soap opera discussions, and pornography after all! Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I don't care as long as the "other DZ" isn't trying to confuse the customer with misleading web site, etc to make the customer think that they're looking at a competing DZ in/near Wichita. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ