skydived19006

Someone with a couple of hundred jumps, and a big head. It varies, but generally has to do with having a big ego, and the matching holier than though attitude that goes along with it. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Toilet facility. If it's stopped up, and full of crap, you get a brown star. You are right to bring up the point, I'd thought it several times. Are they going to follow a Coach on a dive from "Hi, I'm Joe, and I'll be your Coach on this jump..., up on the airplane down in freefall, and through debrief? And if so, are they going to do this with every staff member, and what about the guys who aren't around this weekend? Are they going to sit through a FJC, and with every instructor? Are they going to observe a tandem student/instructor from start to hand shake? Maybe they can ask how many jumps the video guys working on any particular day have? I guess they can sniff everyone's armpits, and ask them how often they bathe. I just don't get it. Is/was there an outline of the "USPA Inspection" somewhere? Here's an idea, how about an instructional course inspection. Send "the guy" out to random rating courses, and grade the Course Director. Maybe we should start a "Course Director Member Program," and require them to pay a couple hundred dollars a year for the previlage of being a Course Director, and having an "official gold seal inspection program"? It seems to me that there's quite a bit of room for rubber stamp instructional courses, let's crank down the thumb screws and week out the bad apples! Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

The requirement to gather 3,000 to 4,000 signatures to get on a ballot as a National Director for an election that only sees 1000 votes does seem a bit ridiculous, and makes it a bit hard to replace any of the incumbents. It will require some sort of grass roots campaign, but damn if the internet just could prove to be the tool to get it done. We'll also have to beat the uninformed "name recognition" votes. 'OH! Glen Bangs, I've heard that name (check), BJ Worth, I've heard of him somewhere or another (check)' Yes, just like something out of an Arlo Guthrie song, it could just come to pass. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

As long as I wasn't overly busy at the time, I'd love to show people the log books, and even take the time to help them understand what they're looking at. Right now (annual inspection) we’re replacing all the control cables, and pulleys (read expensive and entirely optional parts/labor!) in my 182 simply because it’s 45 years old, and has over 10,000 hours on it. I really doubt that many of the fun jumpers would be really excited to know this, and have a “really, that’s ferak’n cool!” reaction. Again, I have a few A&Ps, and more than a few pilots on my instructor rotation, and as fun jumpers. A&Ps know log books, and pilots should, but they also know the A&Ps who work on the airplane, one of which is also flys for me. More than they trust me, they trust that Jeff (pilot, A&P, IA) would walk away in a heartbeat if he weren’t satisfied with the safety of my airplane! Same holds true with every aspect of the DZ, if you jump "there" on any kind of regular basis you have no idea what you're getting into. In that case I guess you're back to hoping to get above 1000' in a stable airplane, with a competent pilot behind the yoke. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Skyride demonstrates that a bunch of tandem students go on the internet, end up calling a phone number, and hand over their credit card information. You can not tell me that any Skyride "customer" has ever done anything near research! USPA has refused to do extremely simple search engine optimization! As long as uspa.org does not place on the first page of search results, it does not matter in the least what they post on their web site. Prospective students will first have to read it, before they can read it. USPA had a "warning" regarding Skyride. What percentage of Skyride business was deterred by that. My guess is something well less than 1%. As long as it's not on Glen Bang's agenda, it's not going to come to pass. Here's an idea, why don't we figure out how to depose Glen Bangs, and his supporters on the BOD. Let's affect change!!! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I will admit that before I owned the DZ, I had never looked through anyone else's maintenance logs primarily because I trusted the DZO. But my point is that fun jumpers wouldn't give a care about a USPA inspection result. If the DZ was "dangerous" they would have already known. The instructional staff will know if they're cutting corners in student instruction. Everyone eventually will figure out that the airplane is dangerous, when pilots refuse to fly it, A&Ps walk away because the DZO refuses to fix things. The duct tape will no longer hold it's own weight (Fandango). Etc. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Derek, Have you ever asked to look at the aircraft log books at any of the DZs you've jumped? I've ran a DZ for 7 years, and have yet to have a skydiver ask to see the my log books. I even have half a dozen A&P skydivers! That says to me that they either don't care, or that they really do trust that I'm doing what I should with my aircraft. My guess is that it's the latter. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I asked that USPA do a little very simple web site optimization, even something as simple as changing the title meta to something other than "USPA", and especially on the DZ listing pages. I was told "we're working on it", and that was a two or three years ago! Jan Meyer also was pushing on the same issue, and again for years. Didn't matter to Glenn, or Chris Needles, so was never done. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I have to wonder if a short and factual little email disclosing a bit of the wrongdoing of the BOD with names, and circulated to and through skydivers at election would have any affect on the outcome of the next election. It'll have to be short because the attention span is that of a kindergartener, and it'll have to inspire a few people to actually take the time to vote. They do need to be informed voters, since uninformed voters tend to simply vote name recognition, and there's no change in that! There are a handful of people here, but the 10 +/- of us can not affect the outcome of an election without "getting out the vote." Oh, I just had a thought, maybe these emails should come over the course of a couple of weeks, and a couple days between. It may maintain more interest if people are "hit" with them like a Burma Shave advertisement! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Well, I don't think that I've seen any real pros for the GM Program. Anyone....., Anyone......, Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

As I understand it, the EC is in place to decide policy when something can not wait until the BOD meeting. They obviously break this rule on a regular basis. Is there any way to hold their feet to the fire? Maybe "remove for cause"? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Why is it that as you say "DZOs run USPA?" I'll venture a guess; it's because of apathy on the typical skydiver's part. A vast majority of fun jumpers want to have nothing to do with the politics behind the USPA, or for that matter even the politics found at every single DZ in the world. They go skydiving in order to get away from politics, and the day to day bull shit in their 9 to 5 lives. DZOs have more of a vested interest in the sport, and therefore the USPA. Also, the absence of a Group Member program would change neither of these assertions. DZOs would more than likely still have a large influence on the USPA BOD. And fun jumpers would still be apathetic. Why is it that you think that DZOs like and would be interested in perpetuating the GM program? Tommy, and I are both DZOs, and we're not exactly fans of it? Especially in light of recent events. As far as the DZ Inspection Program goes, what use would it be if there were no teeth behind it? If they inspected me, didn’t like what they found, and tried to discipline me in any way, I’d sue!!! They’d end up giving me a bunch of money, a lifetime membership, mailing out “apologies” to every individual member, etc. As an outcome of the emotional reaction of the BOD, Ben and Cary affectively cut the nuts out of the USPA GM Program. I’m just imagining a set of glass testicles engraved with “USPA” hanging from the “rearview mirror” of every ASC airplane. Wouldn’t surprise me if the USPA members even paid for these trinkets as part of the settlement. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

If half a dozen people were elected to the BOD either as National Directors, or as Regional Directors, and they replaced a few of the entrenched, and GM supporting members, it could be turned over. You have my vote Tom! Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

The Code of Conduct can not be enforced, as proved very recently, so it is irrelevant. The "free" advertising is of very little value. I don't see why USPA could not still appoint S&TAs, and handle everything else through them. The rating courses could be done anywhere a Course Director so chooses and the jumps done anywhere there's lift to make it happen. We are all still bound by the FARs, local, state, and federal laws, so there's your "business practice", aircraft, and airspace enforcement. Funny to me that as a GM we're granted use of the "Group Member Logo", but not the USPA Logo. I see no compelling argument for the GM program, and with the history of the recent settlement, quite a bit of evidence for the GM program to end. What did we do for the 25 +/- years before the GM program was instituted? Martin AC/DZ Section 1 of the Group Member manual: http://www.uspa.org/publications/manuals.pdf/gmmanual.sec1.pdf I think every USPA member needs to familiarize themselves with this information and consider whether the GM program benefits them. Edited: Oh, I almost forgot. One of the "advantages" not listed is that your drop zone can hold USPA instructional course without having to pay the $600 per course "fine" (as I call it) for not being a GM drop zone. That's right. If you are not a USPA GM drop zone, your USPA (individual) members cannot attend a course at your DZ without paying a "fine". But don't worry, your DZO will still schedule the course, they will just pass this fee on to the course candidates. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I am DZO of a current USPA Group Member DZ, but that may very well change in the near future. I see the conflict of the USPA trying to be both a individual member organization, and a trade organization. I also do not see the value of the Group Member program. I’d like to see comments both as to what the purpose and advantage of the Group Member program are, and why you think it would be better if it no longer existed. I now advertise that I’m a “USPA Group Member”, but could just as easily say that we use only “USPA Certified Instructors.” I asked two Regional Directors this morning in an email if they would have an item added to the next BOD agenda for the elimination of the GM program. Martin Myrtle Air Capital Drop Zone Wichita Ks. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I'll admit that I have not taken the time to read the whole document. But from what I see here, it's my opinion that there should be agenda items for "the removal for just cause" Glen Bangs, Lee S., and Larry Hill. Just FYI, I asked a couple of Regional Directors if they would add an item to the agenda to discuss the elimination of the Group Member program. Martin Page 23 The judge states his opinions on the claims: Anyone still think that the only reason we had to settle were Jans Actions and that she alone should pay for the Loss? People that believe the only reason we had to settle was Jans Posting are mistaken. Those that worked hardest to do what was right should not be punished for those actions. Two wrongs dont make a right. The BOD knew of Jans previous work on the Skyride issue when they voted to kick out Skyride Owners. They all share responsibility for the action they took. Removing those websites would not have kept them from being used in this lawsuit. The Posts she made here could not be removed. I find it strange that people want to kick Jan out because she didnt take down a personal website that was providing a public service. Yet it was OK for member of the Executive Committee to continue being a Skyride Business associate and profit from skyride during this entire fiasco. Is Jan a Renegade and/or Maverick that stirs things up?? I think so. Does the USPA Need her?? ABSOLUTELY!! I do feel I owe Dr. Lee an Apology for what many perceive as a personal attack. That is not my intention. I am simply stating that I feel he made some very poor ethical decisions in a)Dealing with Skyride in the first place. b) Continuing to be a Skyride associate after the USPA kicked them out for ethical reasons and c) continuing to be a skyride associate and doing business with then while remaining on the board of the USPA while Skyride had pending litigation against the USPA. Everything I have heard is that he is a man of upstanding character, However it is also my opinion that he made a poor ethical decision in this matter. I have said my Peace on this and will remove myself from the discussion. I am not a lawyer. All Opinions expressed are just that. My Opinions. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I took Skyride certificates for 6 months in 2004, and understood the deceitful practices they employed within a month or so of starting with them. I didn’t quit for another 4 month due to my greed, but eventually the “shit taste” it left in my mouth over weighed the money. I say this to point out that regardless of when Lee started trading with Skyride, he knew exactly the type of people he was sharing his bed with within a very short time period. That would have been the time to have stopped, but his DZ to this day continues to trade with Skyride, so in my opinion Lee has questionable business ethics. He may not be doing the deceit directly, but by accepting the certificates he’s enabling it, and through association, and support is just about as guilty as Ben and Cary. By the way, I lost zero business by dropping Skyride. I increased my advertising/exposure and have since increased my student traffic by over 50%. That all said, I don’t have competing DZs in the near area, and no DZs within 150 miles who accept Skyride (have to go to Missouri to find one). Martin DZO Air Capital Drop Zone Wichita Kansas Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

In my letter to the BOD, I did say that I'd maintain my Individual Membership so I would retain my voting privilege. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Jan Meyer may have been the driving force behind the removal of Individual, and Group Memberships, but it is a "Board of Directors" not a Kingdom, were it a Kingdom Glen Bangs would have to be considered the Anointed. If impeachment is how “we're” going to "hold people responsible" everyone who voted to remove the memberships should be facing impeachment. I'd suggest as well that if one is "convicted", all should be convicted. Then I'd suppose (I don't know the bylaws well enough) King Glen I is afforded the privilege of appointing replacements. Also, as I understand Glen Bangs is the only member of the BOD privileged to the detales of the “Skyride settlement”, and he has chosen not to share this information with the rest of the BOD. My regional director has related to me that there are often items/issues to which he as a member of the BOD is not privileged. Maybe it is a Kingdom? To my knowledge, Jan’s primary “infraction” is that she’s willing to talk with, and discuss issues with the lowly peasants (aka members), the nerve!!! I did write my opinions to the BOD, cc to my RD, and cc to a drop zone owners email list. In that letter, I informed that If Ms. Meyer is removed from “OUR” BOD, I will remove my drop zone from the list of USPA Group Members, and make it known that Individual Membership is no longer required at my DZ. Martin Air Capital Drop Zone Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Well you just had to throw beer into the argument! I agree with you regarding the Group Member program, it could go away and not bother me a bit. That said, I do like the fact that I can advertise that we're a "USPA Group Member DZ", that said, I could say I was a USBCA (US Beer Consumers Association) Group Member DZ, being an organization that I just made up, and am the sole member of, it would mean the same thing to my student customers. If it weren’t for the fact that Group DZs pledge to require individual membership as a group member, and for the third party insurance, quite a few individual jumpers would drop their membership. That said, if it weren’t for the individual/group member conflict, their may be quite a bit less dissention among the individual membership. That said, regardless of the Group Member program, a large percentage of DZOs would still require individual membership simply for the insurance. I wonder how many DZOs don’t really police their individual members USPA status. I could do a better job policing it. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Tommy, With regard to the USPA v Skyride Boys suit, what are you upset about? The fact that they acted on emotion in the first place trying to pacify the membership, or that they didn't break the bank fighting the suit? My opinion is that the BOD should have consulted with legal council prior to taking action. If that had been the case, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Martin Air Capital Drop Zone DZO I will renew my group membership this year. There is a lot about USPA that I'm not happy with, but it's "only $200" ($200 for little DZs), and they do send me a couple of $25 SIMs. Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I read through that and my thought was not so much how “lucky” you are to have your rig, you worked hard, and worked a hardcore financial priority list to be where you are! I thought how lucky of a guy your packing ferry is to be with such a person! Skydiver chick! Financially responsible chick! Knows the difference between cheep American pilsner, and good beer! Educated, and intelligent! I know the joy you had with the rig, not only for the fact that you have new gear, but that it was a very long and hard earned goal/reward as well. Way to go! Very cool rig as well. It’ll look even better all packed up, and on your back! Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

Ok, I understand that I'm biting at a troll, but.... Skyride can be "beat"! Skyride sells virtually zero certificates in Kansas, primarily because no Kansas DZ accepts the certificates. They may be selling a few in the Kansas City KS area because they have a DZ on the MO side. DZOs do not need to join, but rather learn! I've said it before, and I'll most likely say it again. Skyride garners in my estimate well in excess of 95% of their customers through Pay Per Click search engine advertising. Every DZO that values their student traffic should have learned by now this fact, and be running their own PPC ads. It's not at all expensive, it's also easy to do, and you're only paying for traffic searching for skydiving, as opposed to most other media. In my opinion DZOs "join" Skyride because their short sighted, and lazy (won't do their own marketing). Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

I think it's something like $49.00 a year, even comes with a magazine. Chris, maybe you could ask Ed or someone at USPA how much the insurance would be. Or, simply ask if they'd insure you for $49.00, and not mail the magazine? Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ

USPA running the Group Member program is a conflict in the first place, it's supposed to have been an individual skydiver member organization. That said, I don't see it changing, just too much inertia against setting up another origination, and in the end it is in the interest of the individual skydiver to have a place to jump. For those here who would have rather USPA spent the money to fight. I'd like to take a little survey to see how many here donated $100 or more to the defense fund. It would take 1000 such donors to simply get started. Those same 1000 people would need to pony up $1000 each were it to go to one million to fight the good fight. I'll be the first to admit that I donated $0, call me an ass hole if you will. Martin Experience is what you get when you thought you were going to get something else. AC DZ