AFFI

Suggestions? Buy your own Drop Zone so then you can decide who to run off just because they are not a perfect click fit. When watching Lord of the Rings I remember many times when I just wish they would kill Gollum and get it over with, I mean what a pathetic use of flesh and bones right? Then he is the one that ends up saving the world and it got me to think, to reflect on times when I may have shunned another who really did serve some purpose in the larger view other than my own. There is sometimes good that comes from diversity that may not be apparent to my sometimes narrow viewpoint. I once read somewhere not to miss out on the beauty of the forest just because of the ugliness of a few of its trees. Here is a great suggestion – be a person of understanding, of compassion. Offer this individual some of your time in friendship, be sincerely welcoming and you may discover that this person that is killing the grove of the DZ click is not so bad after all. Who knows, it might turn out to be a symbiotic relationship that both of you benefit from – wouldn’t that be a surprise. - Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Question: What is the hard deck for an A license holder in the UK? Great altitude awareness while you were dealing with your problem. When the time comes to chop (not if but when), don’t hesitate to trust your reserve. Good Job! Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

While dealing with a partial malfunction, altitude awareness is absolutely essential. When adrenaline levels are high and temporal distortion occurs, it is easy to lose track of altitude. Altitude Awareness is a top priority! It is a common mistake made by many skydivers to start dealing with the line twists BEFORE checking the altitude. What we teach at the DZ I work at is to form the habit of checking the altitude first, then deal with the problem. _ Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

"LAND near your main!!" No, gear can be replaced, you life cannot. "Dont pull reserve until i am back on my belly" No, skydivers have died by placing a higher priority on stability over getting a reserve out. Agree with Dave Wouldent it suck to impact the ground just when getting line stretch on your reserve? Congrats on your first reserve ride and landing safely. Good job. Might be a good idea to have an RSL connected at repack time eh? _ Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

40yrvirgin Personal Information Real Name: NOT A DUITCHBAG NOT A VIRGIN Nick Name: BEATNIK Location: North America/Canada/Manitoba City: Steinbach Occupation: ARMY BITCH/DROPZONES ANNOYING BITCH Interests: Lying about my skydiving history, Pissing off everyone at the DZ, Bragging about shitty new (personal) and old skydiving gear, and being incapable of flying a 170 sabre... Amoung other things Email: No email entered. Jump Profile Home DZ: NOBODY WANTS ME License: B 5496 License Org: NONE Photographer: Yes Gear Container: Racer 2K3 Main Canopy: Safire 2 189 ft² (1.14 lbs/ft²) Reserve Canopy: No reserve entered. AAD: No AAD entered. Forum Activity Status: Registered User Registered: Sep 18, 2006, 5:26 PM Last Logon: Sep 18, 2006, 6:22 PM Local Time: Sep 18, 2006, 9:36 PM Posts: 2 (2.0 per day)

Then I will say it - You guys are not being safe... _ Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly! Good job at finding out the probable causes Chris. I am eager to read your next update… Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Although, if the PC is in tow, the pin is extracted and the parachute is not comming out for whatever reason, hmmmmm. Then I suppose it would ba a PCIT that is a partial. Prevention is the best cure and odds are it will be a total... But on the other hand, Shit... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Great discussion from a lot of experienced individuals here - Keep it comming!!! (Although I agree that a PC in tow is a Total)... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Perhaps you could contack Rel Wkshp with your concerns - hell BillB is in the forums, maybe you can just PM him. Had BillV not chimed in about the Reflex I would think it highly unlikely that this occoured in the first place. The Vector system is a well engineered container, hell there are many well engineered containers on the market these days and it is difficult for me to imagine that flap staying closed throughout the forces applied during the opening. Curious to learn more. Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

My vector has a similar warning label as you describe... Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Clothes, Flour and Human Bodies...

Totally agree...

WHEW...

This seems long but in reality will only take 90 seconds or less to read. Read on, it might be worth it... As always Bill, I love your ability to communicate and moderate when discussion seems to get heated but things are cool on this side of the keyboard my friend. Semantics is my problem once again. David also raised a certain point that additional discourse by the community might shed some deeper understanding on. So onward I push… There are two forces being applied to the PC on a H&P exit - that is the air speed of the A/C and the speed being built up as the body gains velocity in freefall right? What else am I missing? Hmmmmm… Let’s take a scenario, like - Take the air speed of say, a Super Otter that is on a fast jump run and one second out the door the PC is deployed. Then compare that to a balloon jump with no air speed at all and the PC is deployed 1 second after exit. Which parachute will deploy sooner? My guess is it will be the exit from the Super Otter. The point David raises is a great one that might alert a skydiver that there may be a problem. But I have had H&P exits where I have deployed the PC right out the door, had am immediate deployment and on a subsequent H&P exit experienced a hesitation like Chris has described on the same day with well maintained equipment. A delay could be caused by a shrunken kill line but it could also be a factor of the varying velocity of jump runs as well no? Or perhaps the fact that the immediate deployment was from a 4k exit and the hesitation was from a 14k exit where the air is thinner? I am posing as questions because I know that I do not have all the answers and certainly do not always think of all the potential causes of certain issues. I would have seen this hesitation as a red flag to have the gear looked over but Chris already had the equipment checked out by a rigger and it was deemed fine. Is a PC hesitation a PCIT since the PC tows for 3 seconds? I say no. If a sub-terminal hesitation were to be considered a PCIT then using the same logic every deployment is a PCIT for a theoretical amount of time because on a normal, terminal deployment the bridle has to achieve line stretch before the pin is extracted and although the amount of “Tow” time is miniscule it is still present in the physical universe. No? Bill, you know I go out of my way sometimes to ensure that effective communication and learning occurs every time the opportunity presents itself. And this case is not different, so onward we carry this mode of discourse until it reaches it’s final stupendous outcome eh? One last thing to consider. This is only a reflection of myself as mine is the only self I have enough knowledge upon which to reflect: When I had 37, 50 or 100 jumps perhaps my perception of what 3 seconds was in freefall was not quite as accurate as it is now after having a little more experience. Even now I am surprised sometimes at how quickly something happened on the video when my recollection of the same event just minutes after the dive seemed like something took twice as long, as if my perception in freefall is in slow motion. Whenever I am in a situation where things are not going like I quite anticipate they would as was in the case the first time I experienced a sub-terminal hesitation it might be even more enhanced by the surge of adrenaline I experience, it seemed like my PC towed for 4 or 5 seconds but when I counted on the video it was maybe one and a half to two seconds. That being said, since I am only human perhaps other humans experience similar sensations when they are in similar situations. Meanwhile, back at the farm… Besides all we have gotten to learn and explore through all this talk about sub-terminal hesitations, most importantly the consensus concerning the question raised from the original posting is to follow correct EP’s regardless of whether of not a main canopy will be lost in the process right? What is most important is the preservation of our lives and many lives have been lost in the history of skydiving when making retrieval of the gear a priority. So the original question did get answered but we got to learn a lot more during the process of conversation which is to me one of the most productive, seemingly magical elements of participation in these forums. Thanks everyone, for enhancing my understanding and broadening my base of knowledge in skydiving. Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Sorry if I can across as condescending or being short tempered, there are no exclamation points in my explanation and usually I love the challenge of getting someone to understand something they are struggling with. You see I just had a huge tumor removed from my spine, going in for another major open spinal surgery Friday morning and I am in freakish pain right now, it is hard to sit here, type and cope all at the same time. Please bear with me… Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

You are NOT experiencing a PCIT Malfunction. What you are experiencing is a hesitation simply because you are not going fast enough for the PC to be able to pull hard enough on the pin to extract it. This Is No Big Deal... I have induced the exact same sensation many times. It is a very good practice to make inquiries and learn. Perhaps Ron’s frustration is stemming from the fact that I have already explained in detail what is most likely creating this sensation you are experiencing. I am beginning to get frustrated as well which is uncharacteristic of me, but you yourself stated: So it seems that you understand the dynamics of what is happening yet you are still insisting that you have experienced a PCIT which you have not. A real PCIT is a quite rare malfunction, at least in my experience and every experienced instructor I have studied with it has been rare as well. Furthermore with a curved pin you will very likely not be able to make your closing loop tight enough to create a PCIT, no matter how tight you make it. If you want proof, do this test: 1. Make your closing loop as tight as you can and close your rig and put it on. 2. Get on a motorcycle and go 60 MPH which is 50% of terminal velocity. 3. Toss your PC out and see if it opens your main. 4. If it does not, slowly apply speed until it (the parachute) comes out and note what your speed was at deployment time. 5. Be prepared to hit the ground very hard… This will give you an indication as to how fast you must be going for the PC to extract your main canopy with the closing pin as tight as you can make it. If you want to avoid the whole hitting the ground part, simply take our word for it and believe that what we are communicating to you is factual. If you still do not understand it then ask your rigger if he would be kind enough to take the time to explain it to you, or you could fly down here to Texas and I will go over it with you until you fully understand. Just to summarize: 1. At 0 (ZERO) Miles Per Hour a deployed PC will apply no force (ZERO). 2. At Terminal Velocity (120 Miles Per Hour) a deployed PC will apply 85 pounds of pull force. The slower you are going the less force the PC will pull with. 3. It takes 14 pounds of pull force to open the parachute. 4. When you jump from an airplane, it takes some time to reach terminal velocity (120MPH), lets make it simple and say it is 15 seconds. If you wait 3 seconds and then throw your PC then you will not be falling fast enough for the PC to create enough pulling force to pull the parachute out. As you gain speed then more pulling force is applied by your PC, then after a few (3) more seconds there will finally be enough pulling force by the PC to pull out the parachute. That is the sensation you are noticing. Does this make sense now? Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

What is formally known as a “Pilot chute Hesitation” is where the PC is caught in the burble. I have never considered what this type of hesitation (sub-terminal) is called and am quite curious is a name for this situation has been coined throughout the ages of skydiving. Anyone?

The best advice ever given in the history of our existence!

Survive... Or Dont deploy, but you can only do it once... Really though, the chicks have it summed up well...

Point of clarification: The PCIT is a packing error. What you have experienced is a hesitation that was the result of the sub-terminal deployment. I have experienced this many times doing sub terminals from a safe (ergo way up there) altitude. It is important to understand the difference so action is not taken in reaction to a PCIT when a hesitation is the issue.

Worth Repeating! and not to mention the regulations by USPA aforementioned. And you can do something to prevent this potential disaster. Be the asshole and put your foot down! Can't save face and ass at the same time! Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

Okay, so lets discuss a few nuisances of reacting to the (suspected) PCIT that I have seen posted here: Well understood to be concerned, but it may be helpful for your understanding to read the PIA study and watch BreakAway video which is based on the findings of that, which was proven in practical demonstrations. There is a higher probability that the reserve will clear the PCIT and not entangle which is in contrast to the opinion of one of the most respected instructors I had the great opportunity to study under (Don Yahrling). Don believed that there was a great potential that the entanglement would/could occur based on previous fatalities that had taken place. A flat and stable body position will better ensure that the reserve will clear the PCIT, this has been proven through practical demonstrations - The unknown variable I suspect is the body position of the dead skydiver at deployment time of the reserve which without video, no one could possibly know the answer to. So as much as I respected the knowledge an opinions of my good friend Don, I am inclined to disagree with his opinion on this issue. Great Advice! I would not attempt this as it increases the opportunity for the bridle to entangle on a lower extremity. Even at high altitudes when dealing with a high speed high stress situation even the coolest customers can experience temporal distortion and loose track of altitude. Not gonna go there, this is a hotly debated issue and skydivers have died using both methods. The SIM suggests that every skydiver have a pre-planned course of action for the PCIT (after consulting with a rated instructor). Sorry is I have been unclear at any point; it is difficult to concentrate because sitting is very painful for me (only days away from back surgery). Hope this is helpful… Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

And something else to consider, everytime a skydiver jumps with the brakes not set, a kitten dies...

Me too, sometimes...