mirage62

Well said, having said that you generally don't jump with a four way coach who THEN determines IF you get to be on a four way team. and all these years I respected you, but I always knew something just didn't add up cya in Texas........ Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Chuck in his normal no bullshit way is pretty much spot on. Perhaps slightly off topic. One of the biggest of the big way people explained it to me like this: “Never for get that big ways are social. If the person has the skills and the ability to be safe and I like them they will normally get the slot over the person who I don’t know or like.” Now think about it. Your organizing 20 ways at your dz, a local jumper who can do the job wants a spot BUT a friend who you really like shows up that weekend (and he/she can do the job to)……..who do you think will get the slot? Record events aren’t a lot different. They “cover it up” better but it works about the same. The going to camps rout isn’t all-bad, and yes people make money off them but you do get face time. But don’t think just because you went to the camps and didn’t get criticize that you golden. Re-read the above. Being from a large dz certainly helps. For me taking the time to travel to Deland was critical. I ruined a lot of good times chasing after a WT slot. Every event was filled with the pressure of not screwing up, but once I realized that the selection process wouldn’t totally be about who had the most 100 ways in there log book and that there wasn’t that much I could do to change the selection (after a certain skill level, and face time) I started to have a lot more fun. Now 200 way or 150 way or whatever, I enjoy seeing my friends…….. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

*** Okay, saw the points, changed my mind, I would be irritated. *** I don't know about that, three fairly large loops had to pick up and they weren't just sitting besides each other (from the picture) plus you have to build the first point high enough to get the second..... Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

JP, What if it was a swoop event and only a few people show'd up? Even if it was a normally well attended event? Same thing. If you do big ways you know that they may not get the numbers. The 400 way was the FIRST one (case of beer) that I was ever on that started as a 400 and ended as a 400.......and they worked real hard to do that cause (I believe) they understood they may not be going back real soon Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Yep, but it's a lot of fun and as far as I can see the only people who really get upset about any of it are the people who: 1) Didn't get a slot. 2) Got cut. In the past it's been Guy and Roger who have done the attempts and you got to hear it all. "Our second point was harder than theres....." but funny I've never heard that from Guy or Roger. I wish they could make it a "real" world record as my wife won't let me go back to Thailand unless it's for another world record attempt. Now it was was a record............ In any event, congrads to all the new record holders....I wish Texas and Z-hills had been spread out a little more! Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

It would prob scare you like a 270 would me then again maybe worse Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

When is Couchfreaks? Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Okay, I’m sure this idea has tons of problems but just fur balling here. Why not but the H.P. jumpers out FIRST at altitude? They pull at 2,500 (if your really doing H.P. turns you ought to be able to handle pulling at 2,500) they are all on the ground before the rest of us get down to pattern altitude. Think about it, let the idea “breath” 1.) If you don’t declare an HP landing and you do one with the “later” groups it’s obvious to everyone and corrective action can be taken. 2.) The DZ makes the same amount of money. 3.) Other than the swoop lane possibly getting clogged up with swoopers separation isn’t the problem Soooo they wouldn’t be above us they would be below us I know that the deloyment height might be a problem for some people (low timers) but really they don't need to be doing HP turns. WHen they are ready - after education - they s/b ready for 2,500 or lower Okay now kill the idea. Fortson Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

DAMN, I skip five yrs and they cancel it Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

NOPE, not at all. I can count on one hand the swoopers that have really stood up and said "don't point the......" There's Absolutely no ground swell of swoopers standing there ground BECAUSE there is not a herd of people who want to ban swooping, or anything. It seems like a very few, and I mean very few swoopers are arguing the point. Most from my reading seem to understand that there is a problem that must be addressed. They don’t seem to be taking it as personally as some. It’s not that the majority want to stop anyone from swooping but it does seem that the majority want something done to prevent these accidents………..and it doesn’t seem to be just educate others. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

First everyone who is reading here should go over to Swooping and Canopy Control And look at “Swooping banned at SD Arizona - there is a LOT of good discussion on that thread. This thread has turned into the few swoopers crying about “witch hunt” and “Danny wasn’t a swooper because…….” (and the funny part is the “because” I think was that he wasn’t that good at it????) I really, really would like to hear from the “top dogs” of HP landing, perhaps I have but I don’t know the names. I see some emotion from both sides but that’s to be expected this soon after and accident of this nature. Also, “I’ve seen lot’s of non-swoopers cut off people….” That’s a great reason to NOT look at swoopers landing in the main landing area…………… Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Danny wasn't a swooper???? I mean just what is a swooper? Danny did lot's of H.P. landings Are you really trying to tie in what the person does before the landing (F.F.,R.W., V.R.W) Did he do them "right" I have no idea, but to somehow tie in that a belly flier swooper is not a swooper????? Danny's mistake while doing a HP landing is what killed Bob not what he did the first 10,000 feet of the jump Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Looks like my poll in safety and training has run it course. 63% of these that have responded that they would be willing to sign a petition for the USPA to mandate separate landing area’s. Education is a great tool, but for a VERY selected few we need a change in the rules so that the needs of many (safety) can be insured as much as possible. BTW I’m a bald, fat, middle-aged guy. I have no desire or skills to go beat the hell out of someone who swoops into the standard pattern. I personally think Bill’s idea of changing the BSR is the way to go. Roger and Danny were educated they knew not to but chose to do it anyway. BSR’s are viewed differently and enforced more strictly. We let this all blow over, when Roger was killed, we have to come together on this one now! As B.O.B. would say PEACE Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Yeah Bob sucked at it Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

How many places have pictures of the dearly departed ass posted Ever one was wondering how the people that took care of Bob after the accident took that! Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

done impropperly, but for the most part the experienced swoopers are going to be landing out anyways because they don't want your traffic in their way myself included. *** I'm sorry I thought Roger and Danny were experienced swoopers I'm sure your "for the most part" can be used to cover Danny and Roger or mistakes happen, or more education. But how can having seperate landing area's be bad? And to be honest I'm not sure that you aren't for seperate landing area's?? Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

LOL, we can't man we are ALL on a witch hunt Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

well so far not one example of a dz TO SMALL TO HAVE TO AREA's. Deland might be one. But you could make the area across from the taxi way it. That would be a problem unless attitudes change cause thats TO FAR TO WALK Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

You know - and not that it matters- I have disagreed to a large degree with Spizzzarko but there is a point sort of here. For any solution to really work it hase to be bought into by swoopers. I don't feel like this is a witch hunt but I don't swoop. I have a hard time understand his post because it seems (s-e-e-m-s) that he is suggesting that 270's have a place in the standard pattern with other jumpers. I disagree. But the fear of a witch hunt can cause this problem to not be openly looked at Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

You know I'm sure that at some place somewhere this is true - but damn if I can figure how you can land a plane and NOT have enough area for two landing zones. What I would buy is that IT MAY BE to much of an inconvenience distance wise and hence better to us a seperate pass strategy. Of course I'm not as well traveled as many can someone name a dz that you couldn't have two landing area's? Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Please take the time to go to "Safety and Training" and vote in the Poll: Petition for seperate landing areas. I'm really liking the points being brought out, you can post were ever you want but I'd like to see as many people vote. thanks Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Hey some of you "No" voters, I respect your votes but how about some (more) comments on what your suggestion would be. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

FYI- the dress will be causal according to the drop zone. I'm not sure just how "causal" that will be but Bo was a squared away fellow and I plan to do better than the normal dz clothing. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

No, but it makes more sense to have SOME kind of different rules that may be enforced. The "petition" was just a vechical to get people talking Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Me too. Vendor's just aren't a big reason for me to go or not go. I normally cruise through but if XXX say's they aren't going to be there big deal. Of course I have all my gear and aren't worried about buying new gear Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little