mirage62

from what I'm reading about the bill WHERE are the spending cuts? It's the Dem's norm. Raise taxes NOW and get around to the cuts later. Folks we can't raise taxes out of this mess. BUT at least they raised back to the previous level the S.S. tax. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

THAT is a super idea! Keeps the cost down (2 otters and a PAC) Really, really think that is a great direction...sequentials. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

I have rarely seem Kallands ass handed to him so neatly......mad just admit you didn't read the post before you went off. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Villy Bance CSpencefly and Julie Lauralicious (white trash) Normiss Rick Skymama Mirage62 +35 Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

I'm glad to be back with my side kick Jack Donovan to organize the Georgia POPs record. The big boss (Chris) just told me that we have more lift capacity than I knew, if you one of my regular jumpers that have fallen between the cracks contact me if you’re looking for a slot on the Georgia POPs record. We will be going for at least two points and the team is VERY strong, I think a lot of people will be doing something on the second point that will be a FIRST. (Hint, hint)

In 110 pages this still boils down to. "GZ is lying because he is trying to save himself." "How do you know that?" "Because TM is dead" (Or turn it around the other way) What is so amazing is the passion people are showing, trying to prove that they are right. The facts as we have right now IMO lean toward GZ getting off IF the courts don't hold that following someone is illegal. If they find something that shows that GZ physically started the fight things change but so far - and everything seems leaked out - nothing can prove or disprove who started the fight. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

This is what gets me, the poster starts with the above. Seems reasonable......... The follows with........ The area had been robbed - a lot. GZ does follow someone, thats a fact and get's out of the car. Thats a fact. That seems to be all we know. The TM group with say anything GZ says is a self serving lie. It goes to trial what happens if there just isn't any more evideance? You put GZ away because nobody should ever use a gun to defend them selfs?? Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

I personal believe that as a society we don’t actually believe in the right to use deadly force without a trial – almost. There seems to be enough questions (legitimate) that perhaps a trial is in order. But if you are a T.M. supporter you should at least be able to acknowledge that some of the press seems to be desperate to change the view of the event. T.M. was at the start presented as a “perfect kid” and Z was treated as a white person who shot a helpless child. What worries me is that the press in order to gin up business and the race baiters totally distorted this event, is that going to be the new norm? Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Sneaky (122) how did they come up with that number?? The picture that I saw, I could only find one that was out. They certainly improved and pretty much flat out proved that there can be two POPs teams in the USA. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Jeez what is this a news blackout? Videos dropped off and no one from the event is posting. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

come on guys at the event, give us a report. Looks like on one of the jumps Friday one section built out and everyone was in the video at break off. I love being able to watch the videos daily too. I had never taken the time to watch an event I wasn't at but I will for now on. Today could be the big day for a new POP's record! Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Yesterdays videos were great, the base looks good. Looks like a pretty good first day. I know the bench is strong. The weather sure looks good! Two Sky Vans I'm jealous. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Bill your man won, I get it. Taxes will go up, I get that to. But if I recall correctly in the past you supported raising taxes but cutting spending. Significantly cutting spending..... cause you can do math you realize we can't just raise taxes to get rid of this problem. If the Dem's who oppose cutting any programs win what sense does it make to just raise taxes? Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Politics and big ways….. I’ve heard a million times “Big ways are too political for me” The “Politics of big ways” is simple. Get the record make the money. Without getting records any big way organizer or group (P3) will lose favor and the amount of people willing to pay will go do and the money revenue stream goes away. The 300 way was a very delicate and not to smoothly handled example of that. “Fair” only goes so far. Was it fair to by-pass the bench? Sure you’ve got the talent that is ready to jump. Was it fair to cut people for very minor issues? Maybe not, was it fair to not refund completely people that were on the bench who were by –passed, depends on the original agreement. The politics of big ways are never clear. You can argue almost any decision the organizers makes. I had a slot for the 400 way…..then didn’t have a slot for the 400 way……then had a slot (and went). It drove me NUTS for years trying to figure out what had happen. In the end I was told that there was a fear that I couldn’t handle the pressure of a world record attempt. This was after doing over a 100 hundred ways (that use to be the gold standard) being invited back to every big way event I had been on – and never not once was I spoken to at the camps for a fear that the pressure wb to much. My point is when you are breaking into big ways don’t believe everything you hear about things being only about the record. People that go to tons of camps will get a shot before someone of the same skill level who doesn’t- in fact they can be slightly weaker and get a shot. You can’t fault the camp organizers for that, they get paid for camps they are going to reward the people that reward them. BUT NOT TO the point of not getting the record. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Generally if kicked off for performance issue you get some sort of refund for the jumps you didn't make provided you handle being cut w some grace. Of course your flight, hotel ect rent covered. :) I believe safety violations are handled the same way. Bill may know, but I'm trying to recall someone being kicked off an event for a safety violation. I've seen people taken off for a jump or two. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

222 ways I think start April the 6th............. re-reading your post you'll be getting there after that is over. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

There is an organizer on the east coast that uses a format that I really like. You pay $XXX for the event and for that you get XXXX. Rain or shine you pay that amount, no refund at all. You buy your jump ticket from the DZ as needed, refund is at face value of the ticket. To me that is a clear value for the event, knowing what you get. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Certainly mid level organizers come and go, the real top organizers for the most part are the same since I started. (BJ, Roger, Kate ect, ect) Like I said, chasing the 400 way I was willing to do anything, in time and money. So to answer your question I know I have changed...different goals now. BUT the organizers have changed to some degree. There's a LOT more money being charged, they've been at the top of the hill for YEARS (They earned it not a damn thing wrong with that!) The camp system was just starting when I started. Data bases have been constructed. Don't get me wrong, I hope to keep doing some big ways (+100) and organizing at a very low level. This thread wasn't an attack on ANY organizers. I'll throw this out. The camp system has prob done more to keep big ways going. Low time jumpers have a clear path to getting on....yes it cost....but it's a clear path. But at some point the cost is going to push people back....maybe we aren't there perhaps there will always be enough people with skill and $$ to keep it going. I'd miss it for sure. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

I know about eight people that at one time did lot's of bigs ways that have stopped but still jump. Others, like myself are selecting events. Someone made the point about age/money relationship. I guess I can afford it easier now but the relationship between the organizers and my GOALS have changed. These that know me know I chased the 400 like a fool. I achieved that goal and will always treasure that BUT for me the attitude of the some organizers has driven me away. It just isn't worth the time and to a degree expense to be subjected to the "attitude". Most of the people that I mention above quit for the same reasons. For myself it isn't the money - you charge what the market will pay - it's the idea that after being on over 342 +100 way jumps, the world record that I've climb that mountain and didn't fall off, I've seen the view but not sure I want to climb it again. If the 10 years of big ways hasn't proved that I can perform than I'm not motivated enough to keep trying to prove I deserve a slot. I go to big ways now to see my friends that I wouldn't see otherwise. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Man you are so screwed you'd have to start your on boogie ti get on.... Oh wait a minute ;) Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Bill makes a good point, unless your in the top 50% (fill whatever number you believe in) you need to add a approved camp to the cost. If you live on the wrong side of the country for camps, as I do, that can really add up. FWIW I think the camp system is overall a really good thing, I've did two or three before the 400 way. It's a sure fired way to get seen but by no means is it sure fired to get you on the event. (see last post) Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Got a PM that pointed out two things. 1. Big ways have always been expensive 2. Most people won't comment here because the fear of pissing off the powers that be. I've always been a little bit of a numbers nut when it comes to my fun expense. Even with inflation big ways cost have gone way up. Part of that is that big ways are much more structured now and (I bet) MUCH more succesful. As far as #2 well there is some truth to that sort of thing. No matter what is said bigways are a social thing and the people that pick the team will tell you to they are blue in the face that they pick the most successful team. True. But given two people that have the rough same skill set they will pick the person they enjoy being around more - thats human nature and nothing wrong with that. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

First let me state up front that P3 will do a GREAT job at this event, that big ways are risky to put on and require a LOT of work. This event would be only second to the 400, there is a LOT of cost to put on this event and I would be willing to bet that they will fill up this event. Was looking over the cost for the 333 way and did some simple math: Registration $2,400 divided by 28 jumps = $85.00 per jump. Other expenses. Flight round trip (cheap) $400 Hotel 7 days split $350 Food (they include lunch and breakfast) $231 Car rental split $150.00 Total “other” $1,131 Registration $2,400 Total $3,531 28 jumps divided into $3,531 = $126.10 per jump 60 seconds free fall divided into $126.10 = $2.10 PER SECOND. Figure 10% of the 333 will be comp so 300 paying slots @ $2,400 = $720,000. I just wonder where the tipping point is. Where quality big way jumpers will say thats to expensive. I really wish a formal way for coming up with scoring sequential points in +100 way size formations for a world record could be done. Then you would have events put on with that goal. Again this is NOT an attack of the 333, it will be a fun and I'd bet successful event. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

Jack Donovan co-sponsored the event with Scott Franklin and Jonathon Perl. I never heard about the DVD of the previous event! If one of these names rings a bell let me know and I'll try and track it down. I didn't make one of the offical jumps of the first year, the team took over and did a great job missing getting the record that year by (I believe) one grip. Needless to say to get the same group of captains back the next year along with 98% of the orginal jumpers and getting it on the second jump was sweet. I suspect it will get beat one day (in fact I hope it does) but until someone brings three planes and a strong team it will be awhile. In that same tradition this year we will be doing a larger POPs record beating the 29 way from last year. My hope is that we can build large enough to put that record on the shelf for a long time to. More details to follow. CCH Fortson Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

I bet Glen Crews has one.... I sure would have liked to have seen it! Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little