Botellines

BWAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Have you ever tried to use a pepper spray? chances are that if you do not do it correctly, it may backfire and affect you. You guys better keep this weapon in the closet (pun intended) or you may have part of your military come home singing "It is raining men"

please, do not call us irrational, we have lay our reason on the table and are there to be discussed. The problem is that we have to keep changing them as the reasons for this war changes. I know it makes us look confused, but hell, we are. As a matter of fact, no one knows why they died. Some people said that this was for oil, some other that it was to keep a country from switching to Euro when dealing with oil. Some others think it is Bush´s personal vendetta, etc. What we know for sure is that those soldiers died thinking they were defending america from a threat, and they were lied to. They died in vain. (no disrespect meant for them) No, the people has not decided that. That Bush was reelected, only means that 52% of U.S population is scared to death of terrorist threats, and thinks that the other option was much worse. All the polls show that a majority of U.S citizens are against the war. So if you were in a real democracy, you would pull out your troops. Exactly, you just said the reason for this war, it will benefit america. Now, do you want to tell the troops that they are dieing, and loosing limbs at greater rate than vietnam only because in the long term it will benefit america? you can also tell them that in the short term it will benefi some already rich individuals. Nowadays everybody likes to say how much they apreciate their servicemen, how cool they are, how much they love them, etc, etc. that is bullshit, it seems that it is the politically correct thing to do. You love them? bring them home, and save their willingness to sacrify their lifes for defending your rights, when they can actually defend your rights. That is bullshit, whatever this war is, is far from noble. 48% of the U.S population (at least) and 98% of the rest of the world cannot be wrong.

I don´t have the data at hand, but my guess is that Bush is killing more Iraquies per day than Saddam. At least the U.S military is inflicting more terror than the dictator. There wasn´t that many people willing to kill the dictator as they are willing to kill americans.

Yeap, that was what i was trying to say.

I´ve never meet a person that would sacrify his family for the right to vote. Have you?

I would like to add that an important variable to take into consideration is not the cuantity of time but the quality. I know of many people who has gone abroad and they never interacted with the locals. There is so much inmigration nowadays that if you really want to, you will find in any country acommunity made of people from your own country. I was an exchange student in the U.S when i was 16, kept going to the states 2 months a year for the next 5 years. Move to London to work and ended up living in Edimburgh for a year when i was 25 (That is where i got my english funny accent)

Considering it is the supervivence of mankind what we are talking about, i think it is worth to take into consideration all the posibilities and play safe...

At the very begining, soldiers were told that they were fighting to protect the U.S from a nuclear, chemical or biological attack fom Irak, so knowing just that, 1000+ U.S soldiers lost their lives (and a whole lot of Irakis) Now, those WMD has not been found and that threat has proven to be non-existant. Those soldiers did indeed die in vain. It doesn´t matter that now Bush tries to change the reason for this invasion, they thought there was WMD and there was not. I don´t get why people gets offended at this idea, it is not the soldiers fault, but of those who sent them to war. IMO, rather than justify no-matter-what your military actions, go and ask responsabilities to those who have screw up.

Sorry to hear that Kevin. I wish you the best of luck with whathever you decide to do. Anyway, who knows what life has ready for you, it could be something better. Absolutely no class to whoever did it.

TKD is a martial art, period. If you want something that will give you the power to beat someone up from the very first year, i would choose boxing or kickboxing, more a sport than a martial art. Have fun doing TKD Aggiedave, i practice it too and i am currently trying to convince my girlfriend to join me, you are one step ahead.

The way i see it is that he has 4 more years to admit he has done mistakes and take actions to mend them. At this current pace, i very much doubt that he will have time in 4 years to admit his wrongs and do something about it.

No. It is just that in this forums there are some people (not talking about you) that do take it literally and seems to think that the U.S is the only free country with the only democracy and the best and only workable economic system. So i just like to point out the falsehood of those statements. They do a lot. See below for a list of things. You need to understand that the U.N was never made to further advance any country´s agenda. Before the Irak war, there wasn´t that much bitching about the U.N. Anyway, what do you propose as a substitute for the U.N. clicky Specially if what it does involves the death of 1000+ americans and an indetermiated number of civilians. Considering that the U.N depends of the military of its members, would you be willing to spare some troops from Irak and move them to Sudan? So take all the guys involved in the scandal, throw them to jail and replace them with more honest people. What you are proposing is the equivalent to ditch the whole U.S military because of the scandals in abu grahib.

To be the president of the only actual superpower in the world, doesn´t make him leader of the free world. two diferent things.I know that that sentence is meant as an exageration and is not to be taken literally, but it is just plain wrong. Liberals are biased against Bush, so yeah, my opinion has the same value than yours regarding to Bush, but we are talking here about the U.N. They have helped other countries taking the diplomatic way rather than the military way, and that is a lot That is not the U.N task, the members must enforce them. By the way, how do you feel about the Veto option that your country has? Many resolutions would be enforced if only the U.S didn´t veto them. Would you prefer that all countries are equal rather than just a few having that power? Israel surely wouldn´t want to. No one has done anything about Sudan, not even those countries that go out of the way to "help and liberate" others. Do you realise that american companies took part in that scandal as well? You seem to forget that the U.S is part of the U.N, and share responsability for the good things as well as for the bad things.

Don´t forget the iraqui bodies. Last time i checked the toll was much bigger. Glad to read you are back.

Sorry to hijack, but unless you consider the free world only the U.S, that is plain wrong, and even if you do. Last time i checked, France, UK, Spain, Germany, etc never had a Clinton president. To contribute to this thread, i would like to point out that the opinion of many republicans could be quite biased as the U.N decided not to brown nose shrubs little ass in his Irak adventure. Pretty much same thing that happens towards France, Germany, and in a minor scale Spain.

Perhaps it is because Irakis who don´t like U.S presence in Irak soil don´t get close to the military forces for fear to be sent to gitmo. So the U.S forces only see the friendly irakis.

Fair enough, but dictators doesn´t have to be necesarily accepted by the people. They only need to be accepted by the military forces or an equally powerful group. I assure you that if it was up to the people there wouldn´t have been many dictators in history. But once they are in charge, it is up to the people to get rid of them. Unless some extreme circumstances, no one enjoys a foreign military in his country.

It will go the other way. I can see Iran complaining about the U.S intrusion and push further their nuclear agenda. Or syria could very well, in order to keep U.S intrusion away send more insurgents to Irak. The rest of the world would bash the U.S. for the death and torture of innocent people if found out. (and you know there will be "collateral damage") Very bad idea... you cannot fix a mistake with another mistake.

I think the main problem here is the inhability of some people to put themselves in the other side´s shoes. I very much doubt that any american, proud to be american, as some people likes to say, would accept an occupation/liberation force in their homeland that accidentally kills and torture his fellows americans.

I agree. Nobody wants the police at their house unless they've been called. Sure, but when they're abusing their kids, it's probably better if the cops show, even if the parents haven't called. Following your analogy, it seems that the cops liked so much the living room and what it has that they don´t want to leave.

If every member of the United Nations is going to bash the U.N. the very first time it doesn´t agree with its agenda, then i agree with you, the U.N is not very useful. But whose fault is that? By the way, as far as i know, the U.S was also involved in the oil-for-food program. How convenient that those american companies involved in the scandal have not been made public... We are ALL responsible for that corruption.

Think about how useful it would be if those hundreds thousands soldiers you have over Irak where put on every plane, train or boat in the U.S, or in every corner for that matter. True that if they were not in Irak, they could be still doing thinks that do not hinder terrorism, but where you have them now, for sure will not do anything to prevent terrorism. Furthermore, with all the "mistakes" the U.S. military is doing in Irak, not only you do not prevent terrorism, but you polarized some who may have remained neutral to take on terrorism. And some of those, could already be in the U.S, as legal citizens. Did you know that many of the terrorist who commited the Madrid attack where legal residents?

I was wondering why PJ didn´t show up anymore around SC.

How many people do you think that are necesary to prepare a big scale terrorist attack? Not many, of that you can be sure. And in the other hand, don´t you think they could take advantage that most of your troops are overseas.

I would say that some other posters have behaved much, much worse in the past (and in the present) and got away with just a warning. I don´t know, maybe there has been private PM going on that only the greenies know about.