CooperNWO305

DFS that’s your book right? I’m looking forward to it. Question for you or anyone else here. Are there solid 302s that describe the actual weather that day/night? Wind speed at 10,000 feet and on ground. Air temp at 10,000 feet and on ground. Actual precipitation at 10,000 and on the ground. I’ve heard so many stories. I’ve heard snow. Rain storm. Freezing temps. I’d like to have one document that puts it to rest.

I was looking up aircrew training and came across these pics. https://nara.getarchive.net/media/two-students-at-the-deep-water-environment-survival-training-school-after-being-365fe1 And this discussion on parasailing concepts being used to train in the military. I believe if Cooper had been an aircrew member in the military that he could have learned about parachutes and harnesses like this.

I agree with Flyjack. Nothing indicates much 727 experience. So many fallacies have been perpetuated from the start. Citizen sleuths have debunked a lot, or at least put many original theories to the test.

I looked for Max Gunther’s book on Amazon and noticed that the prices for the used ones have gone up in price. I bought some a while back for around $5 to $10 each. Now those same ones are selling for $30 or more. Same on eBay. It would be great to see that book on Kindle or PDF.

A number of suspects have FBI agents in their corner. If there was one suspect that had all the agents in his corners, I’d give it some attention. But there isn’t. This case has investigators that are practically PhD level into Cooper. Frankly, they know more about the case than most if not all the FBI agents. These agents had many other cases that they were on. They moved on or came to the case late. Outside of Blevins, I don’t think a single Cooper researcher thinks there is any chance that Christianson is Cooper. None. That suspect has only created noise in the system and taken away focus from the case.

On the food in the briefcase. Max Gunther gets some bad press in the case, but his book from 1985, long before any of us joined the case, has Cooper stashing the money and going back for it later (logical). But he has him leaving some food with it, and animals getting into the food, which could have accounted for the money being separated. I still to this day think the Tina Bar money is a red herring. $6000 found, $194,000 not found. Wouldn’t it make more sense to put effort into where the $194,000 went? I don’t think the $6000 was buried. My guess is it separated on the plane (stew) or fell out on the stairs (Gunther) or was separated by animals (Gunther). The Tina Bar money find is fun, but not completely relevant.

Benzedrine makes me think of truck drivers trying to stay awake. Air crews too.

Looks like a lot of news articles.

Good post Robert.

Anyone listen to Martin Andrade’s latest episode on The Cooper Vortex? He mentions that he’s looking at a new list of suspects based off Gunther’s book. I need to listen again, but it sounds like men born in Canada who moved to NJ and joined the military are no longer the exact group he is looking at. Martin, any plans for updates or will it be in the new version of your book? Thanks.

Egg Harbor suspect came up randomly today, well Egg Harbor did. I guess there is a big FAA research facility there. The FAA William J. Hughes Technical Centeris an aviation research and development, and test and evaluation facility. The Technical Center serves as the national scientific test base for the Federal Aviation Administration. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Hughes_Technical_Center

The HBO documentary had a clip where they showed what looked like transparency overlays of things like hair, eyes, etc, that would be layered on top of eachother. They showed the Bing Crosby sketch being made, but that may just be someone using current technology for the sake of entertainment. On the Cooper comic Flyjack. I'm not a huge believer in it myself, it just seems too convenient. However, I think Larry Carr and the FBI thought it might be a connection, and I'm thinking maybe they have other info that we don't have that may lead them to that conclusion.

The ad was definitely placed in the Village Voice Newspaper. I have a copy of the microfiche. He supposedly wrote letters to at least two other people, those have not been verified, although some have tried. Ralph Himmelsbach definitely knows who Gunther was, and commented on him just before his death a few months ago.

Robert. Have you actually read the book yet?

Egg Harbor Suspect. Egg Harbor, NJ. A guy investigated by the FBI who worked for TWA. Martin Andrade discusses him on his blog. Most recent post.

The connection being that the LA office was interested in him, and they had jurisdiction over Elsinore? Do you think the FBI will ever release the jump cards from Elsinore?

Seems like a good suspect given that he worked for TWA and was possibly a pilot. But does it match with Gunther's character at all? LeClair worked in industrial chemicals and the only aviation experience he had was as a paratrooper and I guess as a hijacker.

Thanks Flyjack. Not a lot of info on the guy. Does not seem to be the same person in Gunther’s book.

Egg Harbor, NJ suspect is mentioned by Martin Andrade on his site. I’m behind on reading the 302s. Anyone know which release this one is in? Martin mentions Max Gunther in the same article, interesting to see Gunther still being talked about. Thanks.

There are a number of ways Gunther could have found out about Elsinore. He could have traveled there, he could have a contact in the FBI, the man who called him could have been in the jump community. I acknowledge all of these as possible, but not probable. Gunther wrote his book around 1985, and got the Elsinore visit down almost perfectly. Gunther was not huge into DB Cooper, so for him to go so far out of his way to get these little details is unusual. Also, there has never been any other reference to that Elsinore visit in any books or articles. This leads me to believe that a lot in the FBI just did not know about it, or read the 302's. Even without Gunther, the Elsinore visit is a great story, and for it to not make the headlines tells me it was just buried in the huge pile of info, which makes it even more unusual that Gunther heard about it. As for the industrial chemicals, I'm not as big a believer in that being Dan LeClair's true occupation. It might be, but I lean towards Elsinore being one of the real smoking guns in that book. I think DB Cooper contacted Gunther, and I think like Colonel Jessup in the movie A Few Good Men, he wanted to tell his story. He did not want to keep it a secret. I looked for clues in The Village Voice paper that had Gunther's "Happy Birthday Clara" ad in it, but was unable to find anything that jumped out. If Cooper used clues to correspond with Gunther, then he likely used clues to correspond with the two other journalists mentioned, maybe more. There are a few avenues a motivated researcher could go down to help uncover some more info on Gunther's book. Someone who wanted to do some in the weeds work might turn over a stone and get some info that a couple of others have not been able to get, to include myself.

Gunther said that "Cooper" contacted two other editors/publishers. He named them in his book. It would seem to me if you were named in a book, but it was a lie, then wouldn't they have said that? I believe a man did contact Gunther.

Andrade/Robert--- Does Gunther mention Milnes in his book? Himmelsbach acknowledged Gunther as late as 2018, but not in a good light. I believe Gunther did talk to the FBI, but what I'd like to see is the documentation he claimed he sent them. That's where a few more FOIA's might help. At a minimum, there should be 302's with his name mentioned. My experience with FOIA is that it is similar to an insurance claim, the standard is that it gets denied the first time. In my case, first and second. Someone with some time on their hands could send more requests. Robert, you seem to be in the same group as most, in that you have not read the book. I'll be happy to send you a copy or a gift card to get one. I acknowledge that some of it is filler/made up, but a lot of it just seems to much to be a full on fake. I agree he could have heard about Elsinore, but something about that just makes me think he got it from Cooper. There was a letter from the man claiming to be Cooper, and Gunther did put an ad in the Village Voice (that is in the book, and I've seen the actual on microfiche). I picture Himmelsbach as not being a fan of Max Gunther's type. Gunther was a playboy, and Cooper had a certain style to him as well. Himmelsbach was just too much of a straight shooter to find any interest or commonality with Cooper or Gunther. I feel like I've crossed paths with all three types in my life. This could be a coincidence, but I find it a little fishy when I see a major US newspaper publish a book review on Gunther's book, right next to an article on FBI agent Himmelsbach's book. One could argue that the FBI agent had some bias in favor of his perspective over that of Max Gunther's. See attached. Gunther was discredited from the start by the same FBI agent who said DB Cooper was a "sleazy crook" and who said he died in the jump. Max Gunther Book Review SF Examiner Ralph book 9-25-85.pdf

Robert. What about his history makes you conclude he would write a fake story?

Good find. I’m guessing this is not the same person who wrote to Max Gunther though. Unfortunately I’ve seen nothing in the 302s about Gunther. 2 FOIAs returned zero. He claims he talked to the FBI and sent them his info, but nothing has surfaced yet.

It's NORJAK, the pages match up.