mikkey

As Cat in the hat says in the movie: "You can make cupcakes out of anything...." --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

This thread is totally meaningless. This site is no democracy and HH and the moderators are running it they way they see fit. If you don't like - nobody forces you to read or post. I actually would like to see even stronger "policing" by the greenies. This would only have the effect that you would get more "real" discussions instead of pissing contests and "bully" one liners. The tone has been so poor at times that I myself have been sucked in. I welcome any initiative to make this a constuctive discussion forum. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Just to add some facts to this thread, the following are the updated numbers from the BBC: As you can see this is a global effort and there is no need for a pissing contest. Watching some of the US media via my cable TV there seems that certain elements in the US are running this "we do more then anybody else - we are the most compassionate country in the world" stuff. In $ terms the US effort is vital and very good, but measured relative to size of economy and number of citizens it is average - but still great. The most vital contribution the US is making - and I mentioned that before - is to apply the strong logistics capabilities of the miiltary - that help is priceless. So I think most of the industrialised worlds governments and their citizens really deserve a pad on the back for the way everybody has stepped up for this task. I find this the one positive thing happening out of the whole tragedy. Let us just hope everybody is in it for the long haul to help the survivors. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Here is a different perspective why aid is important. http://www.theage.com.au/news/Asia-tsunami/US-pushes-aid-plan-to-avert-terror/2005/01/03/1104601297984.html --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Something I noted when listening to eye witness reports is that the tsunami was not so much described as your typical large wave (like surf waves), but more like an enormous powerful and quick high tide. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I just do not understand why it is so popular with the right in the US to slam the UN (and the Europeans) at every given opportunity. On the occassion when I turn into Fox News, I always note how they just focus so much on this. Some kind of campaign to divert the attention away from the foreign policy failures of the Bush administration? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

From what I have seen from Thailand this seems to be very much the case. Here in Australia there is a campaign of getting professionals like Nurses, Doctors etc. to go to the worst stricken areas as volunteers to help. There has been a great response to this initiative. Here is an example: http://www.theage.com.au/news/Asia-tsunami/Volunteering-surgeon-packs-his-bags/2005/01/03/1104601296222.html --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Yes very good initiative. The best GW actually did was taking the initiative to establish the international coordination group that includes Japan, Australia and others in the region. Coordination of the relief effort is very important. Worst thing that can happen is uncoordinated efforts and relief stranded at airports etc. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

And I don't disagree with that. All I'm saying is, how about waiting a couple weeks? Agree. Going to Maldives this Easter and have no intention of cancelling. 85% of their GDP is from tourism. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

This issue does represent a moral dilemma. On one hand it seems like in very bad taste to be sun bathing close to where many people died, on the other hand, the best long term help that can be given the areas that are / were tourist destinations, is to rebuild the infrastructure and get the tourists back in. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Does anyone have any statistics on private giving? A lot of individuals, groups, and corporations are giving too. I wonder what the per capita aid numbers would look like if you added in the amounts given privately by the citizens of each nation? I sort of prefer human-to-human aid, over the government variety, and nobody seems to be noticing that kind of aid. I am sure there will be data available soon. From watching the international media, it seems a lot of corporations worldwide are giving large amounts and that the money coming from private donations are setting records everywhere. What I find annoying is that some people here in SC are making this into a contest and running " we are the best" type of BS. I am personally impressed about the amount of help the US is giving, it must however be said that many countries are also making a huge effort. There is no need to run the BS "we are doing the most and they better kiss our feet" tone I have seen here. Examples: Numbers seen yesterday: USA 280 Million people: $350 M contribution Japan 110 Million people: $500 M contribution Sweden 9 Million people: $90 M contribution Denmark 5 Millionpeople: $50 M contribution Australia 20 million people: $48 M contribution etc. I don't see many scandinavians here starting a pissing contest. Just got very annoyed about the attitude of some people here. But what is new... And as mentioned before the best help countries like the US and Australia have given so far for the short term need is the military contribution. The US Navy helicopters in Aceh are absolutely vital in saving lives and the Australians have flown water purification and military hospitals in. This is an event that in many ways unites the wold and it would be nice if people would not do the: "we are giving the most and they still hate us" crap. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Your post is a corck of shit... and BTW most other countries are giving more by capita then the US. However, the help is appreciated, especially the assistance of the US Navy with its helicopters. Actually, it is your post that is full of shit - just the usual mikkey "screw the USA" post. USA --> 5% of world's population USA --> 40% of annual global foreign aid dollars You and a couple of others make it a habit to attack any poster you dont like as either "un-american" (if poster is in the US), or as "America hater" if living outside the US. If you ask people which type of Americans they don't like - it is people with your attitude. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Your post is a corck of shit... and BTW most other countries are giving more by capita then the US. However, the help is appreciated, especially the assistance of the US Navy with its helicopters. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

First of all I find it in very poor taste to use the Tsunami situation to bash the UN and the French. Over 120000 people have been killed. In general it is an old political trick to divert peoples "frustrations" by bashing third parties. This strategy goes back to Machiavelli. By demonising either foreigners or certain groups within your own community you divert away from your own faults and channel frustrations towards others. I find it interesting that the amount of UN and Euro "bashing" from the right in the US has been in direct correlation with US mistakes/problems in Iraq. No wonder that the Administrations propaganda machine at Fox News has been leading in this effort. The worse the problems in Iraq get, the more they are bashing the UN. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, this article makes a lot of sense to me: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/12/23/1103391893763.html --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Me, too. I just happened to be born in America, and my family just happens to live here. If I was born in Ireland, I would be any less fortunate to the country that I lived in. They have certain advantages over America. If someone gets killed in America or anywhere else, it makes me equally sad. No, I really don't understand why people are "proud" to be Americans. Other countries have freedoms we don't have and vice versa. America just happens to be the place where I grew up. Many of the things that my parents' taxes paid for while growing up I could've received elsewhere. It may be a great country, but there are others. It's not the best country in the world. It has advantages over other countries, but they have advantages over us. Finally a voice of reason. Very good post. I was born in one country with the citizenship of a second, grew up in a third country , moved to the country of my family, then to a fourth and now have been permanently settled in a fifth country far away. I have worked in many other countries and worked with people of 20-30 different nationalities. What I have learned is to understand and respect that people are different and that all countries and cultures have something good (and bad) to offer. I am still very fond of the country of my forefathers and what it stands for, but I do not engage in blind patriotism which unfortunately is quite common – especially among posters in this forum. Getting back to the title of this thread: I think the problem many people have with Americans is the attitude that the “American way” is the only way. I have said it before but Baghdad is not Atlanta. I recently had a chat with an Australian soldier who just returned from Baghdad and he told me that it was this “my way or the highway” attitude of the Americans that was upsetting a lot of Iraqis. He also said that the relationship between other coalition troops and the populous was far better due the difference in attitude. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Wow, 3 of the biggest right wing bullies jumping on a thread they don't like within 4 minutes of each other. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

a) this is new information / evidence that has come to light. b) since when are you a moderator? c) funny comment thinking of threads started by you and your contributions in general. nuff said. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Here is an interesting article I saw in my local paper: http://www.theage.com.au/news/Iraq/Emails-confirm-Guantanamo-abuse-complaints/2004/12/21/1103391749668.html I am surprised how Americans can accept this behavior - especially when up to half the detainees have been released, i.e. must have been proven to be either innocent or very small fish. What if Americans would be treated like this in e.g. China? Is it OK because they are muslims? Just because they are suspects? (and yes they are just suspects or hundreds would not have been released in the last 12 months). The attitude that you can do with people what you want as long as they are not Americans will just make the US further alienated from other countries and result in more terrorists. How dare the US criticize other countries for human rights abuses? This is an absolute disgrace. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, go back and re-read what was said. You are drawing a wrong conclusion. Well you wrote: So there was question if Hitler did anything good and you referred to Mengele and his sick experiments. How else can this be read??? And if you were implying that in spite of Mengele's crimes something 'good" came out of it (genetic research), then you are deranged in your views. No research or its results is "good' if it is based on the murder and torture of humans including children. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

So these sadistic and murderous experiments on human beings were a good thing? What is wrong with you people? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The "revisionist history" term is used by neo-nazis to deny the holocaust. Interesting that you are using it. You do not display a very deep knowledge of the third reich. Infrastructure? The infrastructure improvements were basically the autobahns which were built to facilitate better troop movements in preparation for the war and as a measure to employ people. However, the economics of these programs were so bad that Germany would have gone broke without starting a war. Saying that Hitler did "good things" because he employed people in unfunded work programs that mostly were done to prepare for war is just plain stupid. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

And what would that be? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Good point. Not only that - the IRA also attempted to kill the elected leader of the UK (and nearly succeeded) as well as the Royal Family (and succeeded in on case – Mountbatten). During that time IRA terrorists were allowed in and out of the US, and the US was the main source of money and weapons, financed and organised by “charities” and other Irish groups in the US. And the authorities did not crack down. Remember the “outrage” about the Saudis and the “charities” that financed Al Qaeda? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I just can’t understand why the US is unable to perform efficient elections. The voting system seems to be different from state to state, you vote on a week-day with long queues as a result, there are doubt about the “machines” you use, and talking to American friends down here the absentee voting is a shambles (the process is slow and difficult), etc. etc. When I was young I lived in Germany and observed how they hold elections. They are a large country with many voters and a federal system. No problems what so ever. Elections are held on a week-end, no major queues, the voting system is the same in ALL States, it is simple system where you place X besides the candidate / party you vote for, they have participation rate of around 80% for federal elections (or it was when I lived there) and they have reliable predictions about 1 hour after voting closes, and a final result by midnight. Germany has about 80 million people, so I assume up to about 50 million vote and they have no issues. Same goes for other countries I lived in including Australia which has compulsory voting and a “preference” system that makes the act of voting much more complex. And I never have seen problems and issues like in the US. Why not: - Have a uniform voting system across the US decided by federal law. - Vote on week-ends which will diminish queues. - Use paper and pen to vote - KISS In all other countries I know of, the local polling station counts the votes manually and then reports them in. Then the ballots are locked away if a recounts are needed. What is so difficult about that? No machines, no hanging chads, no problems. I don’t buy the argument about time spent counting, all countries I have seen counting manually have the results at least as fast as the US. And I also don’t buy the argument that it is the individual States that decide which system to use. Your constitution is federal, the right to vote is federal, why not a federal system of how to vote. I am just stunned about the “mighty” US of A can not find a way to get the voting system right. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.