mikkey

Just a question for you Americans from way down here. Most western style democracies have similar institutions like the US supreme court, courts who’s objectives is to protect the constitution and be a safety measure against the legislative or executive arm infringing on the constitution. Looking from the outside, I find it interesting how political the process of appointing a supreme court justice is (or any other senior judge). Does the process which gives a President the right to nominate and the majority in legislative assembly to confirm endanger the objective of the court? Looks from outside that these judges are more chosen on their political affiliation and less on their legal competency. Isn’t this a problem in relation to the role that a supreme court is supposed to fulfil? What do you guys think? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Lawrocket puts it well, the lack of due process and check and balances is a slippery slide no matter how "noble" the cause. There is enough evidence from several detention facilities in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gitmo that the "system" is flawed. The way this is handled and denies rights to the detainees, it works against the values the west is supposed to defend. There are now so many proven cases where innocent people (or very small fish) have been caught up in the "enemy combatant" system that it must be changed. One example: why - after 3 years+ - has no one - no one - actually been tried in front of the military commission? I saw an interesting documentary the other week about the origin of the term "enemy combatant" and the military tribunal / commission system. It was the case of a bunch of German spies / saboteurs who landed in the US during WW2. AFAIK the evidence was not very strong and as they had not yet committed any sabotage. So the legal system had not much scope to impose harsh punishment if found guilty. The administration - keen on "hanging the suspects" - created the new definition of enemy combatant and installed a new military commission system so that standard of proof could be lowered and penalties increased. The commission promptly condemned most of the accused to death. There were a lot of people who were very uncomfortable (from a constitution / due process point of view) how this case was run - so the system was never used again - until the Bush administration "discovered" it to handle detainees in "the war on terror". The key concern with Gitmo and other facilities is still that it defies many of the values and rights western style societies are built on. Saying that due process and protection from torture applies to one person but not another - and somebody without real accountability somewhere in the chain of command making that decision - is undermining the values of a free and fair society. One of the objectives of many terrorists is to undermine the western style of democracy and values - why is the Bush administration helping them in doing so? PS: VP have you learned how to create a poll at Fox News? You are clearly not interested in really measuring peoples oppinion the way you constructed the choices, i.e. one optionout of four to say Gitmo is wrong and in order to click it you have to identify yourself with the term "20% crowd". Why no posting a real poll? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, a different way of making my point. I find it really surprising that certain people don’t get it. I just replaced a few words in an utterly bigoted and racist statement from Steel against Arabs/Muslims with America/Christians to demonstrate the point (that it was a ridiculous and insulting statement) and certain people do not even understand that. Sad really. And a comment to Billvon: I do not understand how deeply racist posts are accepted here but pointing out the fact that they are is “border line” to breaking forum rules? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What a load of ignorant bigotry and racist tripe. The ignorance and disrespect for other cultures and religions shown by many posters here just illustrates why the US is not very much liked in the world community. Also the best way to grow and encourage terrorism. Lets try to reverse this crap: I remember a friend of mine actually had an explanation. He said 80% of Americans are fundamentalist christian psychos who want nothing more than to launch attacks on Muslims. In other words the pretty picture you and other conservatives try to paint suggesting that the true American spirit is about peace is not by any means accurate. ...... Sounds like Al Qaeda propaganda doesn’t it. The stuff people in this forum post about Muslims and Islam reminds me too much of the stuff the Nazis spread about Jews in the 30's in order to build hatred in the general population. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

1) Why he did not reveal himself earlier I don't know, but I guess he was concerned about repercussions, or just did not want to compromise his privacy. Could be lots of reasons. 2) Well, maybe he would have, maybe he wouldn’t (if appointed to head of FBI). Who knows. However, it was still the right thing to do and probably the only effective method under the circumstances at the time. Just a comment in regard to whistle blowers in general: Being a whistle blower can often at least cost you your career. I don’t think that you can expect people to sacrifice everything just to make the public aware of something bad going on. I have full sympathies for whistle blowers trying to stay anonymous and “guide” journalists towards the facts. Example: I saw a documentary about the Alaska Air crash off the coast of California about 5 years ago. There was a maintenance engineer at Alaska who blew the whistle on unsafe maintenance practises. He used the right channels going to the FAA/ Safety Board. Result? He lost his job and never was able to get work in the airline industry again. I fully understand why whistle blowers do want to stay anonymous and not use the “proper” channels to air their concerns. Why ruin you life in order to do “the right thing”. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You stated earlier that you are old enough to remember events at the time, so I am surprised that you do not take into account that the Nixon administration used illegal means to prosecute their “enemies”. There were a lot of illegal actions both via “special” groups like the “plumbers” and the illegal use of FBI and CIA. The theft of the medical records of a prominent Vietnam war critic comes to mind as an example. Woodward and Bernstein had clearly reasons to be concerned about their safety when they were working on the Watergate story. So in this climate it can not surprise that a “whistleblower” would use “alternative” methods. People in the know were intimidated. You need to take this into account. No question that Felt was flawed himself, however I believe he did the right thing and only the press had the power to uncover the illegal practises of the Nixon administration. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You are displaying very little knowledge of the historical facts and the political climate during the Nixon administration. Watergate was minor compared to other activities the "plumbers" were involved in. Recommend you read up on the stuff that was going on. The guy was a hero - he ensured the end of a criminal and deeply corrupt administration. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

They seem to be more interested in killing each other, than in helping each other out. It makes me wonder just what they heck they're actually doing with all that oil money... Must be nice to have such a simplistic view of the world... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Actually I get pretty angry hearing some innocent farmer-taxi driver was tortured to death, especially the wanton cruelty of it. Some f*ing meat heads getting their jollies taking turns to beat his legs to a pulp as he hung from the ceiling because they thought it was funny that he cried out in agony to his god. Then kicking the shit out of him because he couldn't use the legs they'd destroyed. I think I've actually jumped the shark on this one. What kind of fucking degenerate command lets this happen? I remember how people were howling posters down who initially questioned the lack of due process and rights for the Gitmo detainees. We have proof of abuse in camps in Iraq, Afghanistan and Gitmo. We have proof that innocent people have been caught up in it. And we know that the US policy of creating their own "rules" with the excuse of "war against terrorism" facilitated what happened. So when will the people really responsible being made accountable? When are Americans really asking the question of how on earth do you fight for democracy and human rights when you actually sink to the same level of what you are supposed to fight? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Has any of you guys seen George Galloway's testimony in front of the US Senate's sub-committee? I don't like the guy - but it was highly entertaining - shit he was feisty. Must say he got some good punches in and made some points that must have hurt. Example: When he refuted that he had been a supporter of SH, he stated that he had met SH exactly the same number of times Rumsfeld had and the difference was that Rumsfeld was selling weapons to SH. Here is some more info: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4553601.stm --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Sounds good. You'll enjoy Nagambie DZ, they have a nice PAC XL-750..... love those fast lifts. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

BEER! This is a first... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Looking at your avatar - yes... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I recently saw an interesting documentary about this. The camera issue has been explained - the plane went too fast to be caught by the low "frame rate" of the security camera. The documentary explained how the plane disintegrated after impact and how the design of the Pentagon saved many lives. It also showed that they actually found part of the left wing under the rubble in the ground outside the impact. The plane came in very shallow and fast on an angle and the left wing touched the ground and partly broke away just before impact. There is no reason for a conspiracy theory. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Just to come back to the original post in this thread. The picture makes a deep impression on many, but this is the problem, the TV - high tech wars we have now sanitize the real horror of war. For anybody who has never been in a war zone it is just not comprehensible how horrible war really is. There are currently a lot of dcumentaries on TV in regard to th 60th anniversary of the end of WW2. A lot of these do bring the real horror of war well across. In the new world of TV and smart bombs this is getting lost. War is hell on earth and I always get annoyed when people are complacent about civilian casualties. They are too removed from it. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You guys give me the shits. Can you bloody stick to your focking gun debate in the US and leave the rest of us alone? The vast majority of both the Brits and us down under are very happy with our gun control laws. A couple of month ago you gun freaks spread some BS regarding crime in the UK and gun control. I did spend considerable time proofing that these claims were complete BS - but you guys carry on none the less. In regard to this BS thread. As mentioned the "memo" is BS the stats are BS and by the way the gun law changes happened in 1996/97 so this is at least 6 years old. I live in a city with 3.5 Million (Melbourne) - give me any stats on crime - any crime - for a city in the USA of similar size and I will proof to you by offical stats that our crime rate - especially violent crime and murder is a fraction of that of a US city of the same size. So stick to your domestic debate and leave the rest of us alone. We don't have a real gun debate here - neither has the UK - because such a large majority is happy with our laws. And if you came down here and lived for a while you would understand that in NO way can you use us for a pro-gun argument. Man...... what pile of..... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

This must be a first: In a non-english version of the story I read that the male has complained about being traumatised by the experience and that the womans lawyers plan to appeal the case. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Interesting thread. A couple of points I would like to make: 1) I grew up in a mixed environment (50% Protestants and 50% Catholics) – I am a Lutheran myself. The thing that always amazed me (most of my friends were Catholics) was the dishonesty and “double standards”. Most Catholics who I knew then and who I known since had a) sex before marriage b) used contraception and c) did a lot of things the Catholic Church condemns and they still called themselves Catholics. They just did not talk openly about the “issues”. 2) IMO the Catholic Church has not followed the times and is far removed form the realities of live (e.g. AIDS, over population etc.). I would bet that a large proportion of those “1.1 B” Catholics are NOT living according to the strict rules given by the Church. Most protestant Churches have developed and allow family planning, female priests etc. etc. and I would say they are at least as “good” Christians as Catholics are. If you are a Catholic and in order to manage your (sex)live have to be a great sinner all the time it must be quite a burden. I find the Catholic Church far to “guilt” orientated, too negative. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, due to the growing deficit the US has found new ways of financing the war. See attached.. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Here is something to lighten the mood. New way of raising money for the Church --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

If you go back a generation or two, the Aussies still had a lot in common with the "POMS" (British). But now... my Greek-, Italian- and Chinese-Australian neighbours would not think so. Culturally Australia has developed a lot in the past 30+ years and has moved away from its British "roots". The large influx of non-british people from the Mediterranean and Asia has contributed a lot to this. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Here in Australia they switched to the metric system in 70's (AFAIK). The funny thing is that while people use meters and KG's nearly for everything in day to day live, they use imperial when they talk about a persons height (and to a lesser degree a persons weight (stones)). Altitude (e.g. in aviation or to descibe the height of a mountain) is also always referred to in feet. On a side note, I remember growing up in Europe and finding the British monetary system very frustrating. Never got a handle on the damn shillings. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The news I see from the States at the moment and the stories I see here remind me of the old saying "only in America.." Well, its time to pack for my scuba trip to the Maldives and no dropzone.com for me the next 2 weeks. Suffer.. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

He's not trying to "repair" relationships with Europe. He's continuing to do what he thinks is best for the US. Europe can either get their shit together or not. It's up to them. Maybe it is the Americans who should get their shit together? How much does the war in Iraq cost you? How much is the trade deficit? How much the budget? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What I find interesting is that this shows the “repairing the relationship with Europe” is nothing but spin. The appointments of the new UN ambassador and now this are clearly “in your face” appointments and will do nothing to repair the relationships with Europe. You can think about Wolfowitz what you want, but he stand for an aggressive ideology driven foreign policy that does not give a damn about what others think. Not the right signal if the Bush administration really wants to mend bridges….. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.