mikkey

HE IS BROWN MIKKEY we don't care about brown people. We only want freedom and human rights for US citizens no matter what the cost it is to the rest of the world..........oh did I mention we are hated because we are free and jealousy and no other reason what so ever. No he is not brown - he is of Albanian decent (Muslim) and looks Caucasian. See attached pic. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Interesting calling an innocent man "bastard" who was wongly abducted, detained for 5 month in secret without access to laywers or family while being abused....... - even Condi has admitted it was "a mistake". Here is another story how the CIA broke Italian law and obstructed justice there.... http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/italy-furious-over-cia-terror-kidnap/2005/12/06/1133829595923.html --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4504292.stm Why would you fly people to secret jails in countries with flawed human rights if you do not intend to use methods illegal in the US? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Depends how you define torture. According to official Pentagon statements "water boarding" and other torture methods are not torture... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I have thought a few times how it would be to be caught up by accident in the Gitmo / CIA rendering type of situation. Not much fun when the worlds only super power and so called "home of the free" - discards with the principles of due process, human rights and anti-torture (well or just redefines what torture is).... See link for a German guy who got caught up and now is suing the CIA. I know the reaction here already... "bad luck, oh well, price of freedom, shit happens etc." I don't think the US has had a lower standing in international opinion since Vietnam. Something that will not be in the US interests and something that will not be helpful in "the war on terror". The whole spin coming from the US administration reminds me of US claims during the Vietnam war of having saved a village by destroying it. http://us.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/06/cia.rendition.ap/index.html --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

He was 21 at the time of his arrest.... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Firstly at the time I write this he probably has been executed – it was scheduled to be about one hour ago. Just a few comments: 1) Warning and drug mules: There are a lot of stupid and desperate people out there. No matter the warnings. Death penalty for drug smuggling is out of proportion IMO – 30 years prison – no problem – but death – I am not a big fan of capital punishment anyway. 2) Seems the warnings do not always help. Currently 9 Australians are awaiting trial in Bali for Heroin smuggling and will probably be sentence to death. Some of them are 19 years old. They were payed a few thousand $ to be mules, to risk their live. Young and stupid – even a death penalty will not help in these case. And should a stupid 19 year old who carries Heroin for a few thousand dollars and a free holiday in Bali be executed? 3) Even if you agree with the death penalty for drug smuggling – you can not agree with the legal process involved in Singapore. The death penalty is mandatory no matter the circumstances. A lot of the processes you award murderers in the US are not available for these mules and there is no allowance for individual circumstances to be taken into account. Only the Government can grant clemency (and they never do AFAIK due to political reasons). I would have no problem for the Singaporeans executing the people behind the smuggling – but that hardly happens (they are not catching them) – instead they kill the small fish – and there is always a supply of people dumb enough and/or desperate enough. 4) Here is something I found that demonstrates my point that Singapore is taking this too far: September 2004 Singapore announces plans to execute a self-medicating heroin user, Chew Seow Leng. Under Singapore law, chronic heroin users with a high physiological tolerance to the drug are deemed to be "traffickers". Consumers face a mandatory death sentence if they take more than 15 grams (0.5 ounces) of heroin a day. The reason for the draconian laws in SEA are historical. Singapore like many other places in SEA and China were plagued by Opium use and its effect on society for generations. So it is understandable they take a hard stance – however that does not mean you have to agree with mandatory death penalty. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Firstly - no matter if you are a supporter of capital punishment for murder or not – hanging people for drug trafficking is out of proportion for many people. Next step is laws like in Saudi Arabia, where you get executed for adultery… Now the main point: The key reason why people are upset with the Singaporean laws is that the death penalty is mandatory for drug smuggling. There is no room for mitigating circumstances at all. Even in the US this is possible in murder cases (AFAIK?). The guy in question was 21 years old when caught in transit in Singapore and has been cooperative in regard to information about the drug ring he was smuggling for. But there is no possibility to take this into account. Exeptions can only be made by the Singaporean government – not a judge or a jury. I think that it is reasonable to criticize at least these aspects of the Singaporeans laws. PS: Don't have the numbers about the amount of Heroin he carried, but the $1 million street value is what has been reported all along. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Offically they were....but the reality was different. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Let's see: No WMD's, no connection to 9/11, no substantial connection to Al Qaeda... ah, yes Iraq is much better off then under Saddam!! Oh, wait... what is this???? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4475030.stm Hmmmmmmm......... and how many people have died so far? "Mission accomplished" --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The key issue is the difference in fundamental values between cultures and societies. Values formed within families and schools. I find that the basic “values” are more “conservative” in the US and more “liberal” in e.g. Europe. Lots of reasons for that. So somebody people would call a “liberal” in the US would probably be classified a “middle” person in many other countries. There is also a big difference between being to the right or left in economic policy terms and in “social” terms. I find that non-American politicians in general are far more “left/progressive” on social issues while in economic terms the differences are not as big. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What perspective? The articles and stats mentioned actually show (if you can read) the opposite of what you have been claiming and do not support your "perspective" - they are actually saying what I and other been telling you. This is getting beyond a joke. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Are you starting again..... this is going in circles. Found some snippets of information you can use? How does that prove your claims of consistent increase in crimes since the introduction of gun control in the UK and Oz? So one type of crime is gone up for one quarter of the year according to one set of stats (the Police one). And you forgot to quote the next sentence in the BBC report "But crime overall fell by 2%, the figures for England and Wales showed". Also forgot this paragraph in the article from the Times you linked: "Both sets of figures are going in the same direction overall - crime is falling. But inside the police's crime statistics, the number of recorded violent crimes has gone up by 9 per cent, while in the BCS it has fallen by 10 per cent. "My hunch is that the increase can partly be accounted for by the improvements in the police's recording practices and counting rules, as Tony Blair said this morning. But I suspect that there has also been a real increase in violent crime." Also in the same articel: ""Both the BCS and the police figures are flawed. I suspect the BCS is more authoritative" And we just had a poster from the UK documenting how the BCS is more accurate compared to the Police stats. So a good chance the only thing that happened was that collection methods of the Police in regard to this type of crime changed and resulted in an increase. BCS shows a decrease of this tepe of crime and both stats show a fall in crimes as such. This is getting more and more pathetic John. You don't even check the content of the articles you use - just the headlines. Suggest you give it a rest before you hit China with the hole you are digging. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

A lot of things are being mixed in this thread: 1) Sen.Blu. posts some articles about incidents in Indonesia which give the impression that Christians are being victimised and murdered per se in Indonesia. I the made a number of posts trying to explain that the situation is somewhat more complex with a lot ethnic and religious conflicts going on this hugely diverse country (both geographic and population wise). Also trying to explain some of the background to these happenings. 2) We then find out that Sen Blu has a general hate of Muslims (by showing / mentioning incidents spread over time and countries) and some people have a chat about that. 3) Then another poster brings up the issue in regard to integration issues with the fast growing numbers of Muslims in Europe and finally the recent riots near Paris get a mention. If I may make a couple of points: • Putting a whole people / religion to hate is wrong and dangerous. Look at the Jews. Prior to the Holocaust the Jews were demonised in many countries for many decades. There was a fertile ground for the Nazis to act on. Let us not make that mistake again. I also think most religions have extremists or have in their past committed atrocities – including Christians. • I would not put every incident involving Muslims in a “Christians vs. Muslims” basket. These things have often social reasons when it comes to the core of the issue – e.g. the latest riots in France have a great element of that (try to read about the suburbs of Paris). • Nonetheless – there ARE major problems with the growing Muslims populations in Europe (and even down here in OZ). I would however point out that creating hatred against all Muslims is not the way forward and in order to address these issues you need cool heads and the corporation of moderate Muslims who want to be integrated and live peacefully in these societies. Just my 2 cents worth. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Very funny John. This is about your claims that crime was on the increase in the UK. A claim that has been shown to be false and misleading. Still digging that hole? Insult? John Rich is continuing to post false / misleading information about the UK and Australia. All I (and others) have done is documenting that he has done so. Even so he continues to make claims in face of the evidence. So now I make fun of him as he reminds me of the Iraqi Information Minister late in the war. "Insult"? You have not read much on this board then... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Sure John, just keep digging…. you are so funny trying to continue no matter what the facts. Great entertainment – just like your good friend the Iraqi Information Minister… --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What about a fixed maximum term? Say 10 years. Would that not ensure an influx of "younger judges" and still ensure their independence? Edit: ooops you changed your post and by this answered my question

As a non-American can I ask the Americans about their opinion? The US Supreme is quite unique in regard to its influence and the way judges’ terms are unlimited. The following puzzles me: There is no limitation to a SC judge’s term except for death and impeachment. This can have the effect that a) A judge that has “lost competency” to any degree (e.g. due to age or medical condition) remains on the bench as long as he/she is not committing an impeachable offence. b) The timing of appointments is by “chance” – i.e. there can be a decade without a change and their could be a number of new appointments in a short time due to death or retirement. This fact gives some Presidents no chance to influence the court and others an enormous influence (like now with 2 new judges within a year). Is this good? Does it contribute to partisan "fights" within your institutions? Is there any debate in the US to change the way SC judges are appointed or in regard to limiting the length of their tenure? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

So documenting that you continually are spreading disinformation and false "facts" is a personal attack? Oh I am so sorry Mr. Information Minister. BTW Victoria is not a "province" but a State with 25% of Australias population. It has had consistent data collection methods since 1993 and documents any change in methodology or definition of crimes. But you are welcome to research the other States - guess what you will find? And having over 80% of the population agreeing with my statement (with only 12% against) is just speaking for myself? LOL - good one Mr. Infomation Minister. Yes people are so unhappy with our local laws.... Anyway - I think any reader can make up his/hers mind by reading this thread and the others you started making false claims about crime rates and gun laws in the UK and Australia. But by all means keep digging that hole.... you have a reputation to defend --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Oh, I just love the irony! First, you say that you don't like using crime stats to argue gun control, but then you go ahead and do exactly that. Then you claim that Lott's numbers are invalid because they are chosen selectively, but then you go ahead and do exactly that by offering up statistics for just one single province. Finally, using these two methods which you claim are flawed, you jump to the conclusion that you have proved that Lott's statistics are invalid. Beautiful! It's a great example of the pot calling the kettle black. Once again, I've disagreed without calling you a liar. It's really quite easy, with a little patience and practice. And it garners much more credibility and respect than the tactic of personal attacks. You ought to try it some time. It is almost sad how you are continuing to expose yourself. So you can not distinguish between different issues? Let me try to make it a simpler for you: 1) I do not believe that crime stats of different countries can be compared (as differences in collection of data and the differences in definition of types of crimes) – except for murder stats. This is an opinion shared by the US Department of Justice (link has been provided in earlier threads). 2) I think it is problematic to use movements in crime stats within a country as an argument for or against gun control. There are a number of reasons for this (changes in collection methods over time, changes in definitions of crime, other social events influencing crime etc.). 3) However, as YOU choose to persistently make claims of increasing crime rates in UK and Australia – I and others are just documenting that your claims are untrue and document this fact. You continue to ignore the facts and continue to try to mislead by spreading false data. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Your perception and interpretation of the point of this debate is once again incorrect. I'm not trying to tell Canadians what they should do. I'm using the Canadian gun control example to point out what a failure their system is. Hopefully, that example will be studied by anyone here in America considering implementing the same thing on our own soil. It's not about telling others what to do. It's about learning from other's mistakes. Kind of like the "Incidents" forum. Canadian gun control is a fatality with a series of errors from which others should learn. Gosh, I managed to disagree with you, and explain myself, without once calling you a liar. See how that's done? You are repeatedly drawing the UK and Australia into the debate by making claims about the effect of gun control in these countries which have been documented again and again to be untrue. You done it again in this thread and I am of course referring to this. So you are spreading disinformation and trying to mislead readers. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I didn't get them from anywhere. They came from John Lott. He's a respected professor and researcher on a great number of subjects, and has published books on this kind of stuff. His research, facts and analysis are top-notch. So if you want to go up against him and call his info "BS", do so at your own peril. Personally, I choose to believe a respected researcher, over mikkey. But hey, if you know something he doesn't, go to his web site, contact him, and straighten him out. You don't get to speak for everyone. There are also lots of folks that are quite unhappy with the gun laws in the UK and Australia, which have punished the innocent, because of the actions of a few criminals. You really are the Iraqi Information minister. 1) You are relying on Lott who is known to be a gun advocate and there were no references to where he got his numbers from. It has been documented that your UK stats are BS (both in this thread and in other threads) and I have just posted some of the latest police stats from down here showing his/your claims are BS. 2) I just posted a poll from Australias largest polling organisation - Newspoll owned by News Ltd. the same company who owns Fox News - documenting that over 80% are pro-gun control and only 12% against - and you make a claim like above. You are funny....just like your friend the minister. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

OK - so you have a blind hatred of Muslims and just used anything you could find to propagate your view. Interesting you mentioned the Nazis – you use the same technique to entice hatred against a religion as they did towards the Jews. Maybe we should post a few pictures from the ethnic cleansing “Christians” did in Bosnia against Muslims? Interesting how crimes committed by Turks many decades ago are proof of how all Muslims want to kill Christians… Especially when Turkey probably is the most secular and democratic Muslim country today. Anyway – pointless to debate with people who are directed by blind hatred. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I think both are plenty fine. The former provides insight from outside the U.S., which really can't ever hurt -- those with ruffled feathers should just choose to ignore it if it bothers them so much. The latter is just as helpful, as it provides real-world examples of what it's like when some of the variables, such as culture or law, are different -- again, if reviewed and discussed objectively, it couldn't ever hurt either, regardless of whose position the data supports. I know I, myself, have learned a lot from both contributions to many domestic debates, not only here, but also on from other sources, as well. I don't know - gun control is a very complex issue. Even the term itself. There is gun control and then there is gun control. Allowing hand guns but banning assault rifles is gun control - banning all guns is gun control. I am especially against using crime stats in comparing countries. First of all both the UN and the US DOJ have both stated that comparing national crime stats is apples and oranges. There are such big differences in the definition of crimes and the collection of data that you can't do it. The only exception being murder. Also, I have a big issue using crime stats as an argument for or against gun control. Variations and number of crimes can have many different reasons. But if you want to use crime stats - don't rely on people like Lott, the NRA or John Rich. The "numbers" they are using are "massaged" and chosen selectively. I refer to John's earlier post "showing" that Australian crime is on the up and up since we increased gun control in 1996/97. The number are pure BS - the same with the UK numbers. The following is the latest from Victoria Police (Victoria being the second largest state in Oz population wise): • In 2004/2005, Victoria Police recorded a total of 373,917 offences, which is 6.2% lower than 2003/2004. This year Victoria Police recorded the lowest annual number of offences since 1993/94. • Recorded offences per 100,000 population for crime against the person increased by 9.8%, crime against property decreased by 9.7%, drug offences decreased by 9.8% and offences classified as other crime increased by 9.1%. • The rate of assault offences per 100,000 population has increased by 12.5% from 2003/04, to 562.0 in 2004/05. This increase can be attributed to the Code of Practice introduced by Victoria Police for the investigation of Family Violence on 31 August 2004. • The rate per 100,000 population for robbery offences recorded is down 11.1% from 51.9 in 2003/04 to 46.2 recorded in 2004/05. The 2,309 robbery offences recorded in 2004/05 is the lowest annual figure since 1996/97. • In 2004/05 the number of recorded Burglary (Residential) as a rate per 100,000 population decreased 10.9% from 735.2 in 2003/04 to 655.3 in 2004/05. • The number of drug offences recorded was 273.0 per 100,000 population during 2004/2005. This is 10.9% lower than the previous financial year. • Theft from motor vehicle offences is at its lowest level since 1993/94. The rate of this offence per 100,000 • The number of shopsteal offences recorded as a rate per 100,000 population during 2004/2005 has decreased 10.9% to 370.6 • There were 21,279 theft of motor vehicle offences recorded in 2004/05, which is the lowest annual total since the introduction of LEAP in 1993. • The number of recorded victims of crime against the person increased by 11.1% in 2004/05. The number of female victims of assault has increased significantly by 25.3%. • As a result of the introduction of the Code of Practice for the Investigation of Family Violence: o Family incident reports have increased by 5.4% over the past year. o Among all family incidents attended, Police sought intervention orders in 4,523 instances during 2004/05, which is a significant increase of 72.2% from the previous financial year. o 5,185 family incidents attended by police, in 2004/05, resulted in laying charges against one or more parties involved. This is an increase of 73.2% on the previous year. o The number of family incident related assaults has increased significantly by 73.3% in 2004/05 compared to o 2003/04, whereas non-family related assaults has increased only by 2.3% over the same period. So crime is down and in many areas the lowest in 12 years. The only increase is in assault because a change in policy how to treat domestic violence has changed the way it is approached and how it is classified (as assault). (BTW - a good example how change of methodology changes stats). Anyway the Victorian stats are based on a consitent database which has been in use since 1993. So John (or Lott or NRA) claim that Australian crime is increasing - no exploding - is again proven rubbish. Anyway, if crime had become rampant post gun control - we would not have 83% supporting it with only 12 % against. See attached poll (most recent). You can do the same exercise in regard to John's (or Lott or NRA) claims in regard to UK crime - but I haven't got the time and we have done this previous anyway. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

See... I am happy with this attitude. Gun control is a domestic issue and I don't think us "foreigners" should get involved in your debate and on the other hand John and the NRA should not try to drag our local laws into the debate....(especially by using, mis-information). --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.