mikkey

Correct. I listened to a doping expert on the radio who gave this explanation as the most likely scenario. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

bullseye What probably has happened is blood doping. Look up how it has been used in cycling. What probbaly happened is that the testosterone was present in the blood given to him the night before the stage. Testosterone is BTW used as doping in sports that require endurance and also helps the body recover quicker. It is quite common in cycling. BTW the B sample is sealed and opened in presence of the athlete in question. Time to take the rose coloured glasses of - the guy (like most top cyclists) is a cheat. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

There are reports that the girl raped might have been as young as 14.... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

A lot of people rhere eally remind me of the former Iraqi Information Minister. So 500 rusty pre-1990 gas shells are prove of dangerous WMD's that represent a clear and present danger, making it necessary to immediately invade Iraq? is definately Iraq? "apparent training manual " "warns, in stark how-to terms, of the dangers of "information leaks," and instructs Arab operatives inside Afghanistan to dress like Afghan tribesmen, to avoid being followed ("Routine is the enemy of security"), to always be armed, and "to behave as if enemies would strike at any moment." So is this a manual in terror? From what the "article" says it is about avoiding detection. If you are warned to not reveal you are Arab in a country run by the Taleban (this is from pre 9/11) and AQ - why does it indicate you are there to help the Taleban / AQ? Could as well be instructions to operatives spying on the Taleban at the time. The straws posted here are getting longer and longer. All reminds me of the Iraqi Information Ministers last press conference in Baghdad claiming victory while US tanks were only a few kilometres away. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What constitutes an "enemy combatant"? It is a term "created" to do what ever they want with people detained. The whole set-up has already been deemed to in conflict with international law and the Geneva convention and now also US statues. How do you know they all are "enemy combatants"? Have you any idea how they were arrested and on which grounds? (again most were NOT detained on a "battle field") but arrested post Afghanistan conflict. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The whole post was great and worth copying and pasting. But that paragraph was why. Thanks Wendy W. What is disturbing is that people buy the "line": they are all terrorists and need to be kept off the street. If people cared to read up on some of the reports regarding some of the released prisoners - how and why they were detained - they would understand not many were arrested on the "battlefield" and many have been arrested on flimsy information and evidence. The thought that one relies on some bureaucrats to decide who should be detained indefinite or not with no recourse is abhorrent to me. And to say that people will be detained until "the war on terror is over" when there always has been terrorism and always be some level of terrorism is not even funny. Even under the now "illegal" military tribunal system, which was so heavily stacked against any accused detainee that their US military lawyers were outraged - only 10 out of over 600 (400+ now and over 200 now released Gitmo detainees) ever were charged. No doubt that many of the detainees are terrorists – but we don’t know how many and we don’t know how many are “small fish” who would have received lesser sentences if trialled under a normal system. It makes me wonder why the US administration does not have more evidence that they actually can charge the detainees. If you have no evidence how can you say without doubt somebody has committed crimes? One thing is to take somebody’s freedom without due process, it is much worse to do so indefinite and with no legal recourse. Any convicted criminal is treated better then that. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Great post! It should also be mentioned that capital punishment as a deterrent is probably not true. Countries who do not execute have mostly lower rates of homicide then those who do. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Australia! --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I'm not sure, but I think you answered your first question in your second statement. So you are saying the US threw the first punch and started violence against Muslims because we didn't care what they thought about us? Things are just not black and white. Would be nice if people would understand this. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, what I was trying to say is that taking some US stats about increase in private charity to say the US is no.1 in "helping" the needy domestically and internationally is a long bow to draw. So yes agree with some of the points you make. Different systems work differently, and the US tradition of paying less in tax (and using less money on government programs) and more money being raised via charitable contributions is different from the way other countries work (where people pay more in tax for these things and spend less in private contributions). Thought this needed to be pointed out. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

not sure how to read this - are you saying that countries with a publicly paid health care system count those moneys as part of 'charitable contributions'? since I'm not in one of those countries, then does that mean every time I go to the doctor, I'm giving charity to pay for my own health care? based on that logic, then ALL taxable dollars should be considered charity (which isn't that big a stretch). (I'm being cynical here in that a ton of crap - er time - is being argued on whatever made up accounting method each poster wants to use, depending on their goal: 1 make the US look good, 2 make the US look bad, 3 (rare) just discuss the issue, 4 talk about their own country.) OK - to clarify. A lot if countries spend a lot more tax $ on public health care, social welfare, unemployment benefits, development aid etc. and thus people pay more taxes. At the same time charitable contributions are either not or only limuted tax deductable. So as a result in these countries people do not spend as much on charity - it is seen as more of a job for the government. You might not like the system, but it is a very different system of helping those in need - domestic and internatonal. And in "total" government and private money combined - a lot of countries spend more money on the poor and needy domestic and internationally per capita / as a % of GDP then the US. So taking the US private contributions and using it as the US is "best" or "no.1" is a typical narrow patriotacally blinded view. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Quote: "A recent German study reports that on a per capita basis, American citizens contribute to charity nearly seven times as much as their German counterparts and that about six times as many Americans as Germans do volunteer work." I think there is a lot of confusion in this thread: 1) Yes, looks like Americans give a lot to charity, but it needs to be said that the US spends far less on social programs per GDP/capita then other countries, i.e. in European countries people pay for helping the poor and sick via their taxes instead of privately. You might not like the system, but you have to look at how much is spent in total on helping poor and sick people in total - and then the picture looks quite different. Wealthy people pay far less tax in the US and charitable donations are tax deductable. 2) Need to differentiate between domesic charity/aid and international aid/charity. The US spends far less on development aid to the thirld world measured per capita/GDP then other countries. E.g. the US spends only a fraction on development aid the Scandinavians do. YOUR sources?? Public and available - do some search and you find it. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Quote: "A recent German study reports that on a per capita basis, American citizens contribute to charity nearly seven times as much as their German counterparts and that about six times as many Americans as Germans do volunteer work." I think there is a lot of confusion in this thread: 1) Yes, looks like Americans give a lot to charity, but it needs to be said that the US spends far less on social programs per GDP/capita then other countries, i.e. in European countries people pay for helping the poor and sick via their taxes instead of privately. You might not like the system, but you have to look at how much is spent in total on helping poor and sick people in total - and then the picture looks quite different. Wealthy people pay far less tax in the US and charitable donations are tax deductable. 2) Need to differentiate between domesic charity/aid and international aid/charity. The US spends far less on development aid to the thirld world measured per capita/GDP then other countries. E.g. the US spends only a fraction on development aid the Scandinavians do. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

No, they read Speakers Corner..... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I would say that when some country needs help, whether finacially, medically, or militarilly, we always seem to be the ones to step up to the plate. Even then, we are still despised. That makes us big dog on the block, and we get to call the shots. It's the natural law. One of those myths Americans believe in. If you have a look at the amounts countries give (both development aid and emergency aid) measured as a % of GDP you might be surprised. One area the Americans are always leading in, is providing logistics when natural disasters happen as this is delivered through the military which has capabilities no other country has. But try to compare financial aid of the EU as a "block" compared to the US. Look at development aid as a % of GDP. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

WTF makes us Big Daddy, and everyone else the "mouthy teenager?". We share the world, we don't own it. Wendy W. The only reason I overall still have a postive attitude towards the US is that I believe that the many radical posters on speakers corner do not represent the majority of Americans. But maybe I am wrong... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You dont seem to read. Let's try again: Most of the detainee were NOT arrested "on the battlefield". They were arrested post conflict based on "intelligence" / informants. A lot of that has already been shown to be wrong. About 100-200 have already been released without charges. One of the guys who killed himself had been scheduled for release but not been told! Only 10 of all detainees have been charged after 4.5 years..... Stop believing the US administrations and Fox news spin. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You're right, Kallend. However, how many civilians were saved by the death of him and three civilians? US Troops were apparently 5 minutes away. And the house was under US surveillance. Why not at least attempt to take him alive? Callous indifference to civilians never used to be the American way. for what, counseling? Ever heard of intelligence? Well the again, reading your posts... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The main "spin" that gets up my nose is the "caught on the battlefield" crap. Most of the detainees were arrested in Afghanistan and Pakistan post conflict, based on "information" - often provided by locals for rewards. It has already been proven that many have been arrested due to bad intelligence (often because people "point" at them for money or personal revenge). No doubt there are a many "bad" guys in Gitmo. But it makes you wonder why only 10 out of 450 have even been charged after 4 1/2 years. Saw an interview with a former Bristish Gitmo detainee who was cleared, but only freed because he is British, who talked about the mental torture of being locked up without charge and no idea of how long you are going to sit there with no visitors and nearly no contact to the outside world. Especially if you are innocent. No wonder people are either doing stupid desperate acts like attacking guards or commit suicide. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I couldn't agree more. The Military aren't politically correct police officers. They are trained to eliminate any threat and to dominate the battlefield. Had Bush sent more troops in at the beginning of the war and let them do their job, we probably wouldn't have as many problems we have now. Don't agree. Key to the problem is the lack of a viable plan and political preparation for the post combat situation. If the US administration had understood the internal issues better they sould have: - Not desolved the Iraqi military and security forces and not started from scratch which alloed for the situation that allowed weapons etc. to "disappear" and the militias to be formed. - Had a list of competent Iraqis to form an immediate interim government. - Put Iraqis in charge of the rebuilding effort. etc. This approach would have helped IMHO. However not sure it would have completely succeeded. Iraq is the type of country where the idea of "exporting" a western style democracy into a highly split country was always very problematic. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Hmmm... The Pentagon says that "correct procedure" was used. Question is: Are those "procedures" really acceptable? Also, is an internal investigation to expected to be independent?? We should alos keep in mind the following: Now, how would you feel if you were an Iraqi? Do you really think that Iraq is better off now? BTW - unemployment is about 50% and electricity is on only availabe 50% of the time in Baghdad. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, there might be more of these incidents: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5039714.stm --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, I saw a feature about the incident on OZ TV last night. Some disturbing facts: 1) They interviewed the mother of a marine who was part of the "clean up" team. He told her that there were many woman and children amongst the dead - all killed by shots to the head and chest from close range (inside the house). He (the soldier) nearly lost it when he had to carry a 3 year old girl out who had her head blown away and her brain dripped on his boots. She said her son was in no doubt what had happened. 2) Why has it taken so long before an investigation was initiated? An expert on the show said that the "clean up" team normally should have reported that this needed to be investigated (both due to the way the bodies were found and the complaints of locals) and this should have gone at least to the division's intelligence unit. Seems to be that there might not just be a massacre which will shock people but also an attempted cover up. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What price are you paying? I've worked in NYC for over 10 years now. The mongrel horde came to our door. We didn't go to their door. 3000 moms and dads died 9/11. For what? So some evil wanna be prophet could crow to his followers. Massively ignorant people who have loudly proclaimed they can't live with us. Yet, people here and the UK want us to try and live with them. Something doesn't fit. Granted, Bush believed people he shouldn't have believed with regards to Iraq. Were those people Bush believed deliberately lying? I doubt it. We are there in Iraq, and we are going to be there for a while. God bless our armed forces. I personally don't understand why we're not following the money in this terror situation. We know who is funding this shit, and we're not taking them out. Yes, they own alot of oil. Truth be known, toe-to-toe militarily we'll kick anyone's ass. Follow up is a problem, no argument there. If this war was all about oil, well guess what, we'd have the oil. So, it must be more to it than that. It's a culture clash. And our leaders are taking an attrition approach. When will you understand that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11? And that most terror in Iraq is secterian and the part that is inspired by AQ only started after the US invaded..... Looking at the reminder of your post, you really should try to research the subject... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

As stated above in this thread, if you're looking to have the swoop alarms, then you should check out the Optima. The Optima is extremely accurate, and always in sync with my VISO. Even if you wanted to have a visual altimeter double as an audible with swoop alarms, you'd have an extremely hard time hearing an alarm that's on you wrist/hand if you were jumping high performance canopies. [disclaimer] And no, you don't have to jump a high performance canopy to enjoy the benefits of "swoop" alarms, or to swoop period [/disclaimer] Perfect Combo? Optima in the ear, VISO on your wrist/hand/leg. Cheers! --Jairo I assume from your post you have a VISO. Can you explain which data it logs? The information on the L&B web site is not quite clear. How does the data logging capability comare to the Alti-track? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.