Ron

This is a very good question. However my thought on this is simple. You are doing 120MPH at a large piece of earth. If you figure that you pulled around 2,500 feet, you have 15 seconds to do something. (I always say the last 2 seconds don't count unless you already did something, but I'll give ya all 15 here). I don't think MOST people can afford to take the time to think about what happened, and how to fix it. I would hate to do the exact right thing right before I bounced. I would rather do maybe not the best thing, but with some time to try and fix it. This debate will rage longer than the BOC/PUD or the RSL Yes/No thing. I honestly think that in this situation its a crap shoot on what happens....And whats really important is to stop the fast moving planet before it reaches you. But I will still follow this...And maybe someone will do a really good test on this. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This reminds me of a jump I did around #30 or so. They group had an 8way and they wanted me to dock last. So here I am trying to get in, and I see we pass by 4 grand. So I turn to track, and one of them opens the star and waves me back in. So I turn and fly in and dock....Well We were around 2 grand or so when I docked...Right after I broke in, the group broke off....except for one guy who gave me a big ass smile, pointed at the ground and mouthed for me to PULL. I was in the saddle around 1500 feet, and I didn't even have 35 jumps yet. When I asked why they waved me in insted of breaking off at the right altitude...They told me. Ah hell, you were almost in and we were not THAT low. Were these really the good old days? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And Bill it allows you to have ONE procedure...That saves time. Did I throw? Yes! Cutaway and pull the silver. Insted of did I throw? Yes! Well, what the hell happend? Should I cutaway, or just pull the silver. I like simple things in high stress situations. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

SIM Section 3.1 B. General conditions for licenses 4. License qualifications made during military training jumps may be properly recorded on the application for that USPA license and verified by the appropriate USPA official. However, Section 3.1 C. Logging jumps for licenses and ratings 1. Skydives offered as evidence of qualification must have been: a. made in accordance with the USPA requirements in effect at the time of the jump That being said. Static line would be No. HALO may be depending. Now thats for the USPA. I personally count them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

500 was around when I had a canopy.....I was stupid, not suicidal....Did I mention that I was STUPID as hell! I had three guys come up to me and tell me that if I pulled below 2000 feet ever again and they saw it...They were going to kick my ass. Then they were going to have the S&TA ground me. And if I died, they said they were going to piss on my body while it was still warm. Ya know now I wish I could thank those guys. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think his issue...and mine is from And his point was with 14 jumps you don't know enough to make that kind of statement. Look at it this way you are giving advice to someone with more jumps than you. How is it they are not sure, but you can be? Not trying to slam you, but this group will slam you if you speak out without the experience...Hell I just had a guy call me to the carpet over something I said. And I think I have more jumps than him. With 14 jumps...I would limit my advice. I would also not take everything here as the truth anyway. you can't teach skydiving over the internet, and you really don't know anyones qualifications. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Main about 500 feet 3 times. Twice I did it because I was stupid and thought it would be cool. I use to pull at 1200-1400 all the time back when I was REALLY stupid. Once I was at 500 feet because I was stupid and screwed up on a video jump....Long story but the short version goes like this: A guy wanted his 300 jump on video...He asked me to video it. We put a video camera helmet together and I agreed. His 300 th was a Tandem video. It was almost night so we left at around 6 grand...The Tandem pulled low (3 grandish, the video guy flipped over to video them. I thought "Wow thats cool I'll do that for him!" Then he pulled about 1800 or so. My dumb ass flips over (Could not look at my alti or the ground right? I was a video guy!) The first clue I was screwed was when I saw the horizon pass my feet...Not a very good feeling by the way. I rolled over and started reaching for the reserve...By the time I found it and grabbed it I felt my main open...I guess I pitched it as soon as I started to roll. I was low...VERY low. I have POV video..its kinda cool but bad quality. Now to answer your ground rush question...When I did flip over I saw a single spot on the ground...This one spot was not moving at all. However the ground all around this one spot was rushing away from that one spot at what look like mach15....That one spot was were my head was going to hit. As for the reserve ride cutawy was at 600 feet reserve was pulled at like 599 1/2 feet. ....Another long story...I'll spare you that one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes I think they do as well. But then you said And thats what I ment...They never really caught on by "up" jumpers. I don't know one person that jumps a Hybrid. (Other than students who don't pick canopies). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

However they are not contradictory... Do you think there are more deaths from not finding the reserve, or accidental fires of the reserve? I'd bet (and I do) on that not finding the reserve kills more people. There is an added chance of an accidental reserve opening with a medal handle. I only know of ONE fatality that was caused by this...A guy doing headdown. (If ya know more...let me know, I'll listen). Now I don't Freefly but once in a VERY long while. So my level of risk is low. But I do know SEVERAL stories of people bouncing looking for a reserve handle....Reference my old teamate for one of them. So looking at my odds, I am betting that I have less risk of getting pulled on accident, and that even if it does happen I am not at freefly speeds, and MOST RW people are on the same level during an event that could cause an accidental reserve pull, so the risk of collision is lower than a VRW dive. However I plan on a mal on every jump. And with the high number of people that have bounced looking for the handle...I want the easier handle to get. AND I have a CYPRES (just incase I do something stupid). Its not. Yes, an RSL would work here, but I found that my left hand did just fine. If I manage to cutaway above 1500 feet...Which I have done 5 times, only once did I go lower...Then if I do something stupid the AAD would fire. It will not help one bit. But my left and right hand will...But if I do something stupid...I hope that little black box works. An RSL would do nothing here anyway. No, I said I don't WANT an RSL...I never said NEED. I hope I never NEED an RSL or AAD, or for that matter I hope I never NEED a Reserve again. Yes, RSL's and AAD's are for two separate situations. Both are there incase you screw up. I have seen where an RSL can kill you..Now I admit it is A LOT less than the rate of people that have been killed while they spend the rest of their lives looking for the reserve. But it has happened. Now I have an AAD incase I screw up. If you have stories where a CYPRES has KILLED someone because it did not work as intended. (Not didn't fire, but Misfired and CAUSED the death) I will be very interested to hear it. This could cause me to look at my CYPRES use. But when I think about it, I have had 6 "Live" cutaways. Only one shit really hit the fan story. And I have all but one been cutaway above 1500 feet. (And under reserve not much lower) So if I did something stupid the AAD would have fired. So when I look at the fact that I have done the deed 6 times, I don't freefly (and I have a lower profile handle anyway), and I have an AAD just incase I really screw up... I feel ok with my choice to not jump an RSL. You may choose different. And I would NEVER pick on someone who does have an AAD or RSL. Now I will pick on them if they RELY on it. I really think that people should have an RSL till they have a malfunction, and they pulled both handles. Then I think its up to them. Everyone has to decide what the level of risk they are willing to take. Me, I don't jump a skyboard, rarely jump with a video camera, don't freefly, don't BASE (did it twice..didn't really like it), don't do raft jumps,tubes, rodeo's and I turned down an invite to the 300 way and the Zhills 2 point 120 way. I don't jump an 88 anymore. I do 4way, and jump with small groups for fun. I know what myt level of risk is. I ask myself "would I do this without my AAD?". If the answer is no, then I don't do the dive. If I thought I need an RSL or AAD, I would quit jumping. Like I said I think people SHOULD have an RSL till they have delt with a mal...But then its up to them in my book. I don't agree with the USPA letting Square One have a waiver either. If it is ok there, why not everywhere? Are Perris students better than every other DZ in the US? How many different types/sizes of canopies are people with less than 20-30 jumps going to demo anyway? Questions? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry Square One, not Perris. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The problem is that "Better" is subjective. The Shilouette is a 9 cell hybrid. Easier to pack but a totally different planform than the 7 cell Spectre. Different planform. 7cells VS 9 cells. Different materials. All ZP vs half ZP, half F-111. Different flight profiles. They are totaly different canopies. I personally would rather have the Spectre...Just because hybrids never did seem like a great idea to me. Nothing WRONG with them, but they just never seemed to catch on. But one is not "better" than the other. Demo both and pick the one you like...they are both fine canopies. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I jump with or without a CYPRES.. If you will not jump without, you need to ask yourself why not? I personally think that a CYPRES is a back up which is nice to have, but I would jump without it. For the record I jumped without a CYPRES from jump #12 to #623. I only got one then cause I got a GREAT deal on it...Like 600.00. And I have lost a teamate that would be alive if he had one....Then again he would be alive if he had pulled his reserve as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Amen!!!!.. This is one reason I love PD. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Congradulations on the first rig.... My first response to this is...If you have to ask, its a bad thing. If you are not comfertable with it, then you will not be as relaxed. Several people here have sugested canopy classes...A great idea. And others have sugested trading canopies with someone..Again a great idea... I would do both. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The Racer incident is on the website. Sorry I didn't have that info at first. Well I personally think that you should have an RSL untill you have had a mal, and pulled both handles. I don't personally like RSL's....Now I don't think bad of people that use them...Only people that RELY on them. (But thats my view on everything in this sport...Use all the saftey gimicks you want...Don't trust them to save your life). I can't think of ONE person killed by a properly used CYPRES...So I have one. But I can find people who have gotten killed by RSL's, so I don't use one. I get my thoughts from the Hogarthian (SP?) cave divers. If a saftey device CAN kill you...Then its not a good saftey device, and don't take it. Simple is sometimes better. Plus if you have an AAD an RSL, while not totaly redundant should not be needed (Hell an RSL or ADD should NEVER be NEEDED). I bet a few of those that an RSL would have saved would also have been saved by an AAD. Just ask Perris...They just got a waiver from the USPA to allow non licensed jumpers to jump without an RSL if the rig has an AAD. While I don't personally agree with this for people that have not had a cutaway yet....Perris must have made a strong argument in favor of this. I also don't jump with a soft reserve handle for just this reason...I had a 600 foot cutaway due to a mal, and the cutaway handle being tucked under just like Ricks reserve handle was. Now I understand that the metal handle has a larger chance of getting snagged....But since I don't do VRW, I think my chances are less. Also, I have a smaller handle than stock. Then again...This is my opinion..And I am just one guy. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I always make a point to write the sponsor and thank them. I also work with the sponsor on any improvments they want to tryout, and give feedback and sugestions to them. I also try to sell the gear I am sposored with....But I only accept gear I would normally buy. I will not jump something just because it is free. If I don't like the product, I don't accept the sponsorship. As for the thing about instructors being better than teams...I don't 100% agree with that. The Dropzone has a sposorship with Tony Suits, my team is sposored by Michigan and Bev. There are more and more of Mikes suits on the DZ every day. But thats just ones guys opinion. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ever jump a camera? A skyboard? And there was a fatality with a racer where a guy had his reserve get choked off by the RSL on the main risers.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Now I didn't read that.....But I am not on the market anyway.... But I know PLENTY of single guys at Zhills....I almost feel bad for the single "fresh meat" that shows up at ANY dz.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sometimes I "sit" on my knee with my legs sticking out. Then on the go I just kick off. Or you can just take one grip for exit and hold on to the plane. Then transition to the other grip. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well I agree with the soft handle...but RSL's have killed people as well as saved them. I always tell people to keep the RSL till they have pulled both handles on a Mal... I don't have an RSL and have not since my 12th jump...Nor will I ever. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Go to Zhills. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah and I have landed in the peas like 300 times there. But this time I had a malfuction due to a packer not stowing a brake. I was doing a 4way, broke at 4 grand, tracked and pulled at 2500. The Velocity opened, and then spun up....I fought it till around 17-1800 feet (which was like 5 seconds) then chopped. A sub terminal opening on my PD 113 put me at about 1100 when it was all said. Well I was over the MIDDLE of the Airport....Like almost right above the Relative Workshop on Lexington. I could TRY to make 92 over some TALL tress (That my main and PC landed in) or I could try to land on Lexington (Which has power lines what looks like every 5 feet when you need to land there) or a small field across the street. Now, you were not there, and frankily could not care what you think. But I guess you could have done better? Or maybe you pull at like 14,000K? Im done here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well, I DO my research.....I ahve talked with several FAA inspectors. They all have told me that they would have to study some before they go to a DZ to look at an operation... Oh BTW I am on an AOD audit team with FedEx, and I deal with the FAA almost EVERYDAY. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

We all have choices. Choices you made before the jump put you in that position. Quote Like what? Like I should have landed in line twists under my Velocity....????? Dude you were not there, and you don't know. You ever been in DeLand over the buildings at teh airport? Like I said...you were not there. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, I like it. Kitty wanna go for a ride in the microwave? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334