Ron

agreed...Doing ANYHTING in this sport on blind faith is a bad idea. Know the pros and cons of EVERY piece of equipment. Train as if you don't have any. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't know what facts you are reading...but read it again.. They all state RSLs as a problem. Again, I guess everyone but you is wrong. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What part of I AM DONE WITH YOU AND THIS did you not understand? Do you not speak english? You said "name one incident" about the RSL's...I gave you 6. Now you want to bicker about each one. I guess you know better than everyone. You asked for reports...I gave them to you. Now you still will not admit that an RSL can cause a problem. It takes away your options... Each person that was saved by an RSL screwed up...The people that were killed by them didn't. Again.......I am done with you (unless you can admit that an RSL CAN cause problems, I have agreed that they can save you). But if you continue to toe the line that the rest of the world is an idiot....Well Im done. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Whos arguing just to argue now? Several people said it was a factor.....but since you don't think so, I guess its not...I bet you know more than the ones that were there. Im done with you and this....You can continue to say that the world is wrong....But I go with the ones that were there. You are right the rest of the world is wrong. Have a good day "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A Canopy transfer save for ya. This guy just barely made it...But it shows how a transfer when really low could save ya. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Please tell me where it says this...I mean they act that way, but I would like to see it in print. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope...I was starting. Then I became a type II diabetic while I was in the Army. My Flight Doc told me to scratch the professional pilot plans. Then Army told me I would not be able to stay in. I have my class 3 and he said I'll keep it for a long time, but he says at some point I will lose it, and with it any career I had. So now I have 33,000 I was going to use for flight training...And I can't use it for Skydive University either....Now what am I gonna do? Oh well...Guess I'll just skydive more. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Have fun...I'll go with what *the man* told me....Since he can take my ratings, and you can't. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

One person said it was not...several did say it was...And I know of this accident very well. I have jumped at this DZ, and several of these jumpers used to go to mine. Are you saying the military lied? Just becasue a civilian rigger didn't look at it does not mean they were wrong...But since you were there if you have more info let me know....But it sounds like a rigging error that fired the reserve by the RSL to me....No RSL not a problem. But then again a good gear check or the proper gear would have fixed this as well. Go back to my theory about if you don't need it, and it can cause problems...don't take it. More gear is more possible problems...You know this you test jump stuff. Pulled by the RSL. It even said so. Just because the guy also pulled does not take away the fact that the RSL DID pull. People always say that the RSL pulls faster than you can...So maybe that extra second would have made the difference....But we don't know. What we do know is. Without the RSL the reserve would not have been deployed until the handle was pulled...In this case it happend automaticly...which killed 2 people. To show two more deaths that they would have benefited by getting stable first. And There is the reason I don't jump an RSL. I don't try to talk people out of them...I try to educate them to the pro's AND THE CONS of an RSL and let them think about it and make a personal choice with all the info good and bad These are some situations were RSL were directly involved, or a situation that an RSL can cause resulted in the deaths of jumpers. Now in 4 of them, if you took the RSL away they might have lived. In 4 of them they did NOTHING wrong and died. Now every person that gets saved by an RSL did something wrong that put them in that place. (With the possible exception of a low collision...I agree they can be avoided, but at times some jackass is going to screw up and take someone with him.) So we have 4 people that died due to an RSL... And then we have some people that were saved by an RSL when they did something stupid that they should have handled better. I put my faith in my procedures, not in cool toys that HAVE caused problems. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wrong. The FAA has talked to a few people I know (Like me) during a ramp check. I have a private license and every once in a while I would fly the jump plane and the pilot, and staff would do a jump. The FAA guy didn't like it one little bit. He said I was not allowed to fly comercial with my private ticket. I told him I didn't get paid a cent, and the people were not paying for the ride. He told me that the flight time COULD be considered as compensation. As it was he let me do it since we had a very good relationship with them. But if anyone did pay for a ticket...then I would be busted as hell. This just happened to a buddy of mine that was flying the DZ's cessna to help them out...The FAA warned the DZO to not let it happen again. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

One Two Three Four Five Not an RSL kill, but a result of an unstable reserve pull....Which is what can happen with an RSL. Six Not an RSL kill, but again reserve pulled before stable. There's Four that an RSL was involved that killed Five people. And two where taking a second might have helped... Questions? Ron Edit to add two more: ***6/22/1997 Umatilla, Florida Description: At the end of a normal tandem skydiver, the student pulled the ripcord at about 5500 feet. The left main riser broke, which in turn activated the reserve static line lanyard (RSL). The RSL immediately pulled the reserve ripcord cables while the right-hand main riser was still attached. The reserve pilot chute and free-bag cleared, but the reserve canopy entangled with the spinning main. [/quote "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A CANOPY TRANSFER...Is when you pull the reserve....Wait till it starts to open, THEN cutaway. What you described is a very quick reserve pull, but not a canopy transfer. I have a graduated cutaway to reserve pull response. 1500-2000 feet= Cutaway, rollover, get stable, pull reserve. 1000-1500 feet= Cutaway, rollover, pull reserve. 500-1000 feet= Cutaway, as I feel both risers release, pull reserve while I roll to belly to relative wind. under 500 feet= Pull reserve, then cutaway. (Canopy Transfer) Your results will vary....I have done all but the Sub 500 foot one...And I REALLY don't want to try it. In most cases (Altitude permiting) it is better to not try a canopy transfer. You risk an entanglement. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I see: Bag of dirt on the front.... Dirt bag on the back.... Sorry JC...HAD to be done. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

With a camera you want to make sure you are not tumbling ass over end after a cutaway and risk an entanglement...Same goes for Skyboards. With CRW you might want to take a delay to get away from the entanglement. In MOST other cases an RSL is a good thing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

In the States it is a SERIOUS gray area... The FAR's state that you can SHARE the expenses of a flight with the other passengers. Most take earning flight hrs as compensation...so you would need a commercial ticket. However, if this was a jump just to do it, and the pilot was rated, you had the proper paperwork in the plane, were in the airspace that allows it, did it just once...ect I doubt it would be a big deal. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just re stressing this part...You need the STC for flight with the door removed...Not all airplanes have this....And it has to be IN the Airplane. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, I ask people questions to see why they do things. I hate it when people make gear choices based of what "they were told to do". If a person makes a claim on something...I ask them why? In this case an RSL could save you from a low cutaway due to a collision...But he said he takes it off under canopy (Except at the WFFC where he could get into a collision...I have seen collisions at cessna DZ...So this logic is "fuzzy" at best.) But then you are taking the RSL out of play when you would need it most....If you have a regular mal, you have some time to deal with it. A collison you have no time. I like people to be able to explain WHY they choose gear options...It shows that they have a grasp on the situation, and are not acting like a parrot just doing what others do. This sports risks are to high not to have REASONS why you do things. If you don't agree, Im sorry...But I also don't care what you think. Keep being a parrot, and letting others be one if you like. I will call them all on the carpet...If they can give me the reasons they choose what they choose...And show that they have thought about it. Then I leave it alone. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would get the Oxygen....I have one and never open it unless it fogs...Which is like twice in a year. But its nice to be able to do that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No I ask questions to find out why people do things...they might not know why they do something...People in this sport need to think for themselves, not just do what Bob did. He said he disconects it....Except at the WFFC. Well if the WFFC guy had an RSL he might have been alive still. (of course if he had maintained altitude awareness he might be fine as well). So my question is this: If you have an RSL to help you incase you are in a situation where you need a REALLY quick reserve to deploy...Such as in a low cutaway...or a low collision (Both of which have been discussed as reasons on this thread). The low cutaway you might be ok...But if you open just fine, disconnect your RSL THEN have a collision...It will do you no good. So why disconnect it? It would prevent it from helping you when some jackass hits you while you are under 1,000 feet. Were not talking tandems here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why disconnect it? The recent fatality at the WFFC the guy cut away at 500-600 feet. The RSL will not work if its taken off. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I wish....But we did tie several rounds with the "B" teams. Which one team had a world champ on it. And both teams jobs are to skydive. We had full time jobs and payed for everything. (OK we did get rigs and helmets). We were no threat to the BIG boys, unless they happened to trip on us on exit. But we still did well with very few jumps. Yet somehow David Van G, Chris Irwin, ect are ADVANCED???? (Sorry carryover from another argument). your making me blush...And you do great camera work! Over the years...yes. But I had not done above a 12.6 before this year, and that was as an inside center. Frost had not jumped together since 99. The list of great jumpers that have come from tunnels is growing more and more. I don't think that the tunnel can replace jumps....But it dollar for dollar is much better. Any team I do will use massive amounts of tunnel. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My team last year (Frost) did 75-80 jumps, and around 10 hrs of tunnel. We did a 14.9 with an alternate for the last two rounds which brought our average down. We tied the GK Black team in one round, and Airspeed Zulu in two rounds. The team have a few things going for it....Three of us had been together before 98 Nationals, and are best friends. And Kurt Gaebel has MASSIVE amounts of experience and skill. But the largest factor was the tunnel. How did 4 guys with full time jobs manage to compete against 2 full time teams? Tunnel. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Get one...they are great. I have had an arrowhead, a Factory diver and an Oxygen. I have well over 1500 jumps on the factory diver, and I still use it for tunnel. I jump the Oxygen, but almost never flip up the lens. I only flip it up if it fogs...which is not often, maybe once this year. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You could do a search on this... But When the Tandem Master pulls the drouge release...The pair is no longer suspended under the drouge...So they drop away from the drouge. It is VERY quick. If you are holding on to the hand of one of the pair, you could get pulled right over them. Under a Vector some say it is worse, but I have jumped both systems, and they feel about the same...I have videoed both (and the Racer) and they all look to be about the same as well. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why would it not be an issue? There is a quick drop right after the TM pulls the drouge release. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334